CRT and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion

[Ana the Ist]

If you grabbed the screenshot from your computer, that means you must know the web address where you got it. So just provide that web address and skip the screenshot part. On the other hand, if you just copied that screenshot from some other website of unknown reliability, how do you know they did not just photoshop the image? You see the need for independent verification? This is basic journalism.

What would happen to a journalist who photoshopped fake evidence?

Would that journalist, and indeed the entire media company be sued for libel? Yes it would. That's basic journalism.

If I provided you with the web address...would you admit that you're wrong about CRT and it's concepts being taught in school? Or are you going to move the goalposts and just waste my time?

 

[Ana the Ist]

[my emphasis] lol whut?

Race doesn't matter?

Yes, scientifically speaking the theory of race is entirely disproven. There are no qualities that we can ascribe to race as "true".

 

[rambot]

Yes, scientifically speaking the theory of race is entirely disproven. There are no qualities that we can ascribe to race as "true".

Oh sure. Scientifically speaking.

But we are more than just science, we are culture and society where people interact based on preconceived notions, biases, loves and hates. Most of those learned; either honestly, through imprinting or experience (sometimes with these informing one another). That's what makes racism AND biases BASED on "race" that much more stupid. But that's ALSO why we need to make SURE we are all aware of the biases we have because of some stupid, pointless phenotype.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Then simply, they are not willing to be challenged.

What? Why is it not valid to see yourself as a unique individual?

In my limited time teaching I've never had a kid say they don't belong to any groups. Because EVERYONE belongs to groups; even simply economic classes.

Perhaps that has more to do with the way you frame the question.

Maybe you should just ask the student to describe themselves.

It's the "self made man" fallacy.

No it's a fact. We are all individuals.

And the whole point of the exercise is to make people aware of potential biases they may/will have and be able to recognize it in themselves.

Why?

All this said, I teach in a Behaviour and Learning Assistance class so we REALLY can't manage this complex thinking patterns in my classroom. But it's what htey do in mainstream and what I do (as best as I can) with my group.

I'm sorry...you're speaking about what used to be called as "special education"?

I agree 100%. But limiting what your child is learning ONLY to what you want is really when you move into indoctrination.

Well I'm all for schools teaching facts.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Oh sure. Scientifically speaking.

Also known as factually speaking.

But we are more than just science, we are culture and society where people interact based on preconceived notions, biases, loves and hates.

Sure...but those are individual qualities unique to each person, not group qualities we should ascribe to races. That's race essentialism. The dogma of nazis, the KKK, and black supremacists. These people believe skin color can tell you things about a person and that thinking has never led to anything good....ever.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I have no problem with those things being taught in school.

The trouble is they are not being taught uniformly in schools. It's all well and good to say you don't have a problem having those things be taught, but we are still a long way from how Germany addresses their Nazi era. We are largely in denial about our past, which is why CRT is discussed.

In fact, I also think that we should teach that the Civil Rights movement was successful because ultimately race doesn't matter.

If that were so, then we would not have the situation today where black households have only 1/7 the wealth of white households. What is more, this gap is not decreasing. It is only growing larger. Quite obviously race does matter.

We cannot rationally assume anything about someone because of their race...nor should we treat anyone differently because of their race.

This is a good goal in theory, except that statistics show it is not being realized.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I dont know...let's make a wild guess. Their own personalities and experiences. Their parents and relatives. Their friends. Sounds like a good start for a child to understand who he is.

or she...

And I'll bet their parents and relatives are mostly the same race... and no small amount of their friends as well.

As for "their experiences," well, I couldn't agree more -- of course, at some point a few of them might ask why they experienced what they did... and why others did or didn't ever have similar experiences.

Since the answer cannot be race... What will the government-approved answer be, I wonder?

We'll have to ask the censors.

 

[rambot]

What? Why is it not valid to see yourself as a unique individual?

It's not realistic no.

Perhaps that has more to do with the way you frame the question.

Maybe you should just ask the student to describe themselves.

And they do. By identifying groups they belong to. "Asking student to describe themselves"? That happens in grade 2. I want my students to think DEEPER than an 8 year old and I think that's ok.

Why?

You think it's not important to be able to identify your own potential biases?

I'm sorry...you're speaking about what used to be called as "special education"?

Not exactly. When I think of special education, I think in terms of FAR more problematic individuals than I have in terms of verbalizing and work production.
My kids are quick to get angry, usually have one (or several) learning disabilities and when angry, toss desks, punch walls, self harm (stab with pencils, scissors).
30 years ago, my kids would be in a mainstream class and thought to be "the weirdos".

 

[TLK Valentine]

I've been reading extensively on the topic for about 4+ years now.

I wouldn't waste my time or money on a degree in it if that's what you're asking.

It wasn't.

4 years and yet your opinion means even less to the censors than mine does... seems an awful waste.

Right, but given the fact that many are saying the same thing....it's worthy of consideration.

After all, that's the very foundation of your belief in systemic racism. It's a bunch of people saying similar things. I'm not saying it's automatically true (like you do with systemic racism) I'm saying it merits consideration.

We can look into educational programs and see if CRT ideas are being implemented, right? No harm in that, is there?

Again, your opinion on what is or isn't "CRT ideas" means less to the censors than mine would. It is what they say it is.

So run along and find one of them, and we'll ask together.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

What would happen to a journalist who photoshopped fake evidence?

Who says the screenshot was put there by a journalist?

Would that journalist, and indeed the entire media company be sued for libel?

So, your belief in the integrity of an Internet story is based on "It must be true, because otherwise they would have been sued." ????? Come on. Why are you so reluctant to reveal your source?

If I provided you with the web address...would you admit that you're wrong about CRT and it's concepts being taught in school? Or are you going to move the goalposts and just waste my time?

If you consider constructive criticism on how to debate a waste of time, that is your loss. As to what I will say, that depends on what I find out from that web address.

 

[bekkilyn]

If I provided you with the web address...would you admit that you're wrong about CRT and it's concepts being taught in school? Or are you going to move the goalposts and just waste my time?

"What are goalposts? For 500."

 

[Ana the Ist]

What happens when a child self-identifies as a dog or Batman or believes he originated from Jupiter, as many children do? Are they going to forbid those identities while imposing more fantastical woke identities such as "cis" or "gender fluid" onto them? if he came from Mars rather than Venus, will be be told he needs to "check his privilege?"

And what if his family just moved here from Germany? Is he going to be considered a Nazi simply because he is white and not Jewish? And maybe he needs to feel guilty about slavery too, just in case.

The most messed up part is they are undoubtedly telling the children what identity groups are important.

As if they should spend their lives focusing on such matters.

 

[rambot]

Also known as factually speaking.

It is a fact yes. But it is just a single fact about the human condition. Seems really immature to keep it just to that.

Sure...but those are individual qualities unique to each person, not group qualities we should ascribe to races. That's race essentialism. The dogma of nazis, the KKK, and black supremacists. These people believe skin color can tell you things about a person and that thinking has never led to anything good....ever.

First off, those ABSOLUTELY are group qualities. As distasteful as it seems, it may be surprising how often the individual qualities subconsciously (or consciously) matches what some/any of our group qualities would be.

Why do you think races, as a group, are somehow devoid of holding biases when any other group in the world has them?

 

[rjs330]

HAHA!
No I'm not.
I am teaching kids how to understand their IDENTITY. Why do you have a problem with that?

ALSO, this has been a part of our provincial curriculum since 2002. This is not some kind of CRT.

You've created some kinda weird boogeyman that you are thoughtlessly apply because you're freaked out.

In post 157 you said you were teaching the things that are listed as CRT principles. Including this:

teacher asked all students to create an “identity map,” listing their race, class, gender, religion, family structure, and other characteristics. The teacher explained that the students live in a “dominant culture” of “white, middle class, cisgender, educated, able-bodied, Christian, English speaker,” who, according to the lesson, “created and maintained” this culture in order “to hold power and stay in power.”

So, if you are indeed teaching those things you ARE teaching CRT principles.

You are are not fooling anyone. This is the problem. CRT principles.arw being taught sneakily through the school.system. Generally you don't say "now we are going to teach CRT" What you do is teach the things contained WITHIN CRT without calling it that.

 

[rambot]

The most messed up part is they are undoubtedly telling the children what identity groups are important.

As if they should spend their lives focusing on such matters.

There's the boogeyman comments.

 

[rambot]

In post 157 you said you were teaching the things that are listed as CRT principles. Including this:

teacher asked all students to create an “identity map,” listing their race, class, gender, religion, family structure, and other characteristics. The teacher explained that the students live in a “dominant culture” of “white, middle class, cisgender, educated, able-bodied, Christian, English speaker,” who, according to the lesson, “created and maintained” this culture in order “to hold power and stay in power.”

So, if you are indeed teaching those things you ARE teaching CRT principles.

You are are not fooling anyone. This is the problem. CRT principles.arw being taught sneakily through the school.system. Generally you don't say "now we are going to teach CRT" What you do is teach the things contained WITHIN CRT without calling it that.

I mentioned that this hsa been a part of the curriculum in the province of Alberta (exactly as liberal as Texas, for the record) since 2002.

The idea of being able to find our own biases through our identities is an old one.

Again, this is all boogeyman.

Just to clarify a few pieces though:
This is what I taught. Just this portion. Is THIS problematic for you?

teacher asked all students to create an “identity map,” listing their race, class, gender, religion, family structure, and other characteristics.

This:

The teacher explained that the students live in a “dominant culture” of “white, middle class, cisgender, educated, able-bodied, Christian, English speaker,” who, according to the lesson, “created and maintained” this culture in order “to hold power and stay in power.”

is factual but I don't teach that.

Your fight against CRT PERFECTLY encapsulates this sentence actually. I imagine you identify with each of those descriptors and that is bothersome.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The trouble is they are not being taught uniformly in schools. It's all well and good to say you don't have a problem having those things be taught, but we are still a long way from how Germany addresses their Nazi era. We are largely in denial about our past, which is why CRT is discussed.

Germany doesn't tell young Germans that in their society that every German is an anti-Semite and they are responsible for "fixing the past".

If that were so, then we would not have the situation today where black households have only 1/7 the wealth of white households. What is more, this gap is not decreasing. It is only growing larger. Quite obviously race does matter.

What is the cause for this?

This is a good goal in theory, except that statistics show it is not being realized.

Equality of outcomes is not, nor ever has been, the goal of the US.

The point has been individual liberty. You can spend your time building a business....or you can spend your time protesting social issues.

The person protesting has no reason to complain they aren't as wealthy as the businessman. That's a choice they made.

 

[rjs330]

Did you learn about the Tulsa race massacre of 1921 in school and how an entire thriving black community was displaced, never to return? Do they teach about how redlining deprived blacks of the government sponsored FHA suburban housing developments, and the lasting effect of those policies? Did you learn about how restrictive covenants erected more barriers to blacks acquiring wealth through real estate like the whites? You may have heard about these things as an adult, but many have not because they did not learn it in school.


Since it is not taught uniformly in schools, I'm guessing lots of them have never heard about Tulsa and "Black Wall Street" which was destroyed and taken over by whites.


Perhaps the only teaching about the history of race relations that would be acceptable to the crowd outraged over CRT is that "America had some really bad race problems, but we eventually fixed it all up and we're all good now."

I don't have a problem with teaching that. But I have to ask why Is it necessary to learn about every single event in the history of the US that was racially motivated? We don't don't teach every single event that occurred on any other subject in American History.

We don't teach about every event that occurred during the Revolutionary war. Or the building of the constitution. We don't teach about every single horror that occurred during Jim Crow or about Native Americans owning slaves or Blacks owning slaves. We don't teach about evey event that occurred during the 1920s.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I mentioned that this hsa been a part of the curriculum in the province of Alberta (exactly as liberal as Texas, for the record) since 2002.

That explains a lot.

The idea of being able to find our own biases through our identities is an old one.

And it's disproven.

 

[rambot]

If I provided you with the web address...would you admit that you're wrong about CRT and it's concepts being taught in school? Or are you going to move the goalposts and just waste my time?

That's a bit of a juvenile response.
"Say I'm right and then I'll provide the source and even if it undermines everything I say, you are still wrong".
Just show the source. The poster will be able to figure out for him/herself if they are wrong.