Crop Circles

[AV1611VET]

It's also impossible. For one thing, nobody knows how the more complicated circles can have been created overnight simply because of the time that would be needed, regardless of which tools might have been used. How the equipment and/or personnel got into the design area and left from it when the project was done, leaving no trace in the rest of the crops or elsewhere, remains a mystery. And cameras have filmed some of these fields continuously and seen the circles appear, yet no human or anything else that might explain the origin, coming from the sky or anywhere else, appears on the videos.

Interesting.

Do you have a favorite video on these things?

 

[Hans Blaster]

What would angelic construction look like?

Who knows? Would that be different than human intervention or is the difference not discernible?

 

[Occams Barber]

What would angelic construction look like?

Shiny?
OB

 

[Bobber]

I wouldn't want to say men haven't done these things. If I did I'd be providing a big bell laugh to men those who did them thinking I'm just another dummy. But between just you and me....what if men didn't do them?

 

[Strathos]

Is the argument you're making really that since we don't have proof that every single crop circle ever found was made by humans, that means they weren't? Even though we have proof that many of them were, and no evidence of anything else making them?

I mean, it's technically possible that they were made by angels, ETs, fairies, or whatever, but I really doubt it.

 

[Albion]

Interesting.

Do you have a favorite video on these things?

I'm sorry, no.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

This Telegraph article sums it up.

It's telling that when a documentary crew had the 'circle makers' construct a 'traditional' circle, then invited mystic circle 'croppies' (a name for enthusiasts) to explore it without telling them it was man-made, the mystic croppies experienced same relaxing, invigorating, uplifting, mystical energies that they claimed were the signature of authenticity...

You can see that complex, large-scale artworks are possible in reatively short timescales from beach art, an open and recognised, rather than secret and mysterious, art form; here are more examples: sand circles. Different techniques, similar results.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

What's your take on crop circles?

Fake. Hoaxes perpetrated by hooligans, conspiracy theorists trying to "prove" themselves right to everyone, and pranksters.

 

[Albion]

This Telegraph article sums it up.

It's telling that when a documentary crew had the 'circle makers' construct a 'traditional' circle, then invited mystic circle 'croppies' (a name for enthusiasts) to explore it without telling them it was man-made, the mystic croppies experienced same relaxing, invigorating, uplifting, mystical energies that they claimed were the signature of authenticity...

You can see that complex, large-scale artworks are possible in reatively short timescales from beach art, an open and recognised, rather than secret and mysterious, art form; here are more examples: sand circles. Different techniques, similar results.

Yes, but the creation of these images isn't the mystery. Surely there are ways, a number of them probably, to create even the more elaborate crop circles. HOW they come to exist without any known method for creating them, in the necessary time frame, AND leaving no trace of the creators is the real problem.

Look at this one taken from the link we were given. Aside from the artwork itself, is there any indication that there were humans, i.e. workers, on the scene?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes, but the creation of these images isn't the mystery. Surely there are ways, a number of them probably, to create even the more elaborate crop circles. HOW they come to exist without any known method for creating them, in the necessary time frame, AND leaving no trace of the creators is the real problem.

Look at this one taken from the link we were given. Aside from the artwork itself, is there any indication that there were humans, i.e. workers, on the scene?

Sorry, I don't follow your point - there are known methods for producing them in the necessary time frame and leaving no apparent trace of the creators. The same applies to sand images.

 

[Albion]

Sorry, I don't follow your point - there are known methods for producing them in the necessary time frame and leaving no apparent trace of the creators. The same applies to sand images.

Then give us a quick explanation of how, exactly, that has been done in the case of the more extensive images of some of these crop circles. Do the craftsmen fly in and then drop onto the center of the field, flying out again when finished?

How do we explain that the cellular make-up of the crop stalks is changed afterwards?

How is it that photography has been unable to show any such workers even using hidden cameras, or with timed videos as are used to detect animals in a forest who migrate, or any explanation of the actual tools that would need to be used to construct such things in a short period of time?.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Then give us a quick explanation of how, exactly, that has been done in the case of the more extensive images of some of these crop circles. Do the craftsmen fly in and then drop onto the center of the field, flying out again when finished?

The easiest way is to walk along the tractor trails or between crop rows. Where denser crop must be traversed, it's done as part of the pattern where the crop has been or will be flattened. In some crops, it is possible to move single-file and not leave a trail.

How do we explain that the cellular make-up of the crop stalks is changed afterwards?

You'll have to be more specific for a specific answer, but one common claim of abnormality is of distorted stem nodes where the crop is flattened. This is a tropism that occurs in the hours or days after the flattening as a response to lying flat.

How is it that photography has been unable to show any such workers even using hidden cameras, or with timed videos as are used to detect animals in a forest who migrate, or any explanation of the actual tools that would need to be used to construct such things in a short period of time?.

You'll have to be more specific about photography & videos - who monitors fields overnight and why?

The tools are pretty simple - as I understand it, mostly flattening boards, string, and boots. It's possible that some have used more sophisticated devices, e.g. wheeled or rollers, but they must all be carried around the site, so can't be heavy.

I'm no expert - I've never made a circle, but I knew some circle makers in my student days (when circle-making was becoming popular). Much of their spare time on a project was spent in planning and reconnaissance. It's been noticeable as time passes, that the complexity and sophistication has generally increased, and the patterns involved often mirror student interests of the time, e.g. fractals, gaskets, topology, knots, 'alien' messages, runic & mystical symbology, etc.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The easiest way is to walk along the tractor trails or between crop rows. Where denser crop must be traversed, it's done as part of the pattern where the crop has been or will be flattened. In some crops, it is possible to move single-file and not leave a trail.

One documentary I saw many years ago about circle makers noted that nearly all (if not all) circles exist in grain fields with tracks in them already. They're also almost all in grass-type cereals (wheat, rye, oats) that are nearly ready to harvest.

I swear a lot of the "crop circles are real" people are unfamiliar with fields filled with stuff. Farmers *hate* trampling their own crops and these kinds of tracks are usually associated with weed control, or more likely, irrigation. In places where irrigation is not common tracks are rarely seen in cereal fields. I have seen weed control (mechanical or chemical) in corn ("maize" if you prefer) fields, but the rows are far enough apart to drive down. (Farm equipment is specifically designed to fit down the corn rows without damaging plants.)

 

[Albion]

The easiest way is to walk along the tractor trails or between crop rows. Where denser crop must be traversed, it's done as part of the pattern where the crop has been or will be flattened. In some crops, it is possible to move single-file and not leave a trail.

Well, that would solve, if true, only a minor part of the problem for any creator. Getting in and out of the fields without leaving a trace is much more difficult to explain.

You'll have to be more specific about photography & videos - who monitors fields overnight and why?

The reason of course is to find out who makes these crop circles! It has been done and guess what--the crop circles appear and no human, machinery, UFO, or anything else of the sort does.

The tools are pretty simple - as I understand it, mostly flattening boards, string, and boots.

Oh, come on. That was an early hoax pulled off in a very crude way by a couple of jokers. There is no way for the more advanced crop designs to be created in that fashion.

It's possible that some have used more sophisticated devices, e.g. wheeled or rollers, but they must all be carried around the site, so can't be heavy.

That wouldn't explain half of the mysteries involved with these things.

I'm no expert - I've never made a circle, but I knew some circle makers in my student days[/quote... (when circle-making was becoming popular).

Sure. Rudimentary designs probably were fun to make, but the issue doesn't concern that sort of thing.

 

[essentialsaltes]

In your opinion, does every single crop circle have a perp that owned up to it?

Not all car thefts have a perp that owned up to it. We do not assume aliens are responsible for the residue.

 

[Strathos]

I actually saw a documentary once where they tried to recreate a crop circle, including all of the 'mysterious phenomena' that were supposed to be associated with it (stem nodes, bits of iron scattered about, etc.) They mentioned reports of anomalies like electrical devices failing near crop circles, and when they completed their own crop circle, they inspected it with a helicopter, but the helicopter engine failed briefly as it flew over it. It might have been a scam though.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Well, that would solve, if true, only a minor part of the problem for any creator. Getting in and out of the fields without leaving a trace is much more difficult to explain.

What makes you think so? Every crop field has tractor access and many have additional access from adjacent fields.

The reason of course is to find out who makes these crop circles! It has been done and guess what--the crop circles appear and no human, machinery, UFO, or anything else of the sort does.

Are you saying that someone has monitored every potential site over a season hoping to catch a circle in the making? It sounds much easier to make the claim than to actually do it - it would be a considerable undertaking and unlikely to remain secret in the area. But hey, let's see the evidence.

Oh, come on. That was an early hoax pulled off in a very crude way by a couple of jokers. There is no way for the more advanced crop designs to be created in that fashion.

I'm just telling you how the people I knew made them. As I said, they've become more complex since that time, so perhaps they have more specialised tools, but I've seen some pretty good designs made this way.

What features do you think could not be achieved with such simple tools?

That wouldn't explain half of the mysteries involved with these things.

Such as?

Sure. Rudimentary designs probably were fun to make, but the issue doesn't concern that sort of thing.

So what particular circles or features do you find inexplicable?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I actually saw a documentary once where they tried to recreate a crop circle, including all of the 'mysterious phenomena' that were supposed to be associated with it (stem nodes, bits of iron scattered about, etc.) They mentioned reports of anomalies like electrical devices failing near crop circles, and when they completed their own crop circle, they inspected it with a helicopter, but the helicopter engine failed briefly as it flew over it. It might have been a scam though.

Probably just good TV entertainment - many so-called documentary or investigation programmes wouldn't get aired unless they had a bit of hyped mystery and peril.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Well, that would solve, if true, only a minor part of the problem for any creator. Getting in and out of the fields without leaving a trace is much more difficult to explain.

That's the whole point about the equipment tracks in the field.

See those diagonal pairs of lines on the image both in and not in the circle.

Those are tracks of farm equipment (probably irrigation) that has knocked down the plants long before the circle appeared. Anyone walking down these tracks would stepping on knocked down plants and unless things were muddy would not leave footprints. They go to the edge of the field, or at least close enough to the edge for someone to skip out to the road.

If the field was examined carefully before lots of people traipsed through it, you'd have a good chance of catching the footprints of the circle makers.

I got this with a Google image search and saw several pages of crop circles all of which had these machinery tracks on them. (The image itself was from an article titled "Police urge people to report crop circle damage" and they weren't talking about wrecking the design.

 

[HARK!]

Here's a whopper!

NASA calibrates their instruments to it.

You Can See This Texas Farm From Outer Space—It's That Big.