Creepy: 666 is comming

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psalms 91

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Note that the exact word "Church" isn't required for
a verse in Revelation to be referring to the Church.
For example, everyone agrees that the following
verses refer to the Church: "thou wast slain, and
hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every
kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"
(Revelation 5:9), "the marriage of the Lamb is come,
and his wife hath made herself ready" (Revelation
19:7).

The first three chapters of Revelation use the exact
word "church" so often because they are addressing
seven specific first-century local church
congregations.

Note that Romans chapters 1-15 never uses the word
"church", but then Romans 16 suddenly uses it five
separate times. Are we then to think that only Romans
16 is referring to the Church? No. So neither should
we think that only Revelation chapters 1-3 are
referring to the Church.



Note that in Revelation the Church is referred to as
a woman: "for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and
his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was
granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen,
clean and white: for the fine linen is the
righteousness of saints" (Revelation 19:7-8). Just as
the Church is seen here clothed in righteousness,
so she was previously seen clothed in righteousness:
"a woman clothed with the sun" (Revelation 12:1);
"the Sun of righteousness" (Malachi 4:2).

Where it says "the woman fled into the wilderness,
where she hath a place prepared of God, that they
should feed her there a thousand two hundred and
threescore days" (Revelation 12:6), this is referring
to the flight of the Church into wilderness places
at the beginning of the 3 1/2 year reign of the
Antichrist, which will begin with the abomination
of desolation, which Jesus told the Church that it
would see: "When ye therefore shall see the
abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the
prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth,
let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea
flee into the mountains" (Matthew 24:15-16).
If you are pre-trib as I am then you will understand what I bel;ieve, the church will be gone but there will be those saved during tribulation, the woman is the Jewish which will be sheltered at Petra. There will be the 144,000 that will go forth and people will be saved. There is much to look at and cross reference with the Old Testament in order to gain a great understanding of Revelation.
 
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Psalms34

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Note that the exact word "Church" isn't required for
a verse in Revelation to be referring to the Church.
For example, everyone agrees that the following
verses refer to the Church: "thou wast slain, and
hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every
kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"
(Revelation 5:9), "the marriage of the Lamb is come,
and his wife hath made herself ready" (Revelation
19:7).

The first three chapters of Revelation use the exact
word "church" so often because they are addressing
seven specific first-century local church
congregations.

Note that Romans chapters 1-15 never uses the word
"church", but then Romans 16 suddenly uses it five
separate times. Are we then to think that only Romans
16 is referring to the Church? No. So neither should
we think that only Revelation chapters 1-3 are
referring to the Church.



Note that in Revelation the Church is referred to as
a woman: "for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and
his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was
granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen,
clean and white: for the fine linen is the
righteousness of saints" (Revelation 19:7-8). Just as
the Church is seen here clothed in righteousness,
so she was previously seen clothed in righteousness:
"a woman clothed with the sun" (Revelation 12:1);
"the Sun of righteousness" (Malachi 4:2).

Where it says "the woman fled into the wilderness,
where she hath a place prepared of God, that they
should feed her there a thousand two hundred and
threescore days" (Revelation 12:6), this is referring
to the flight of the Church into wilderness places
at the beginning of the 3 1/2 year reign of the
Antichrist, which will begin with the abomination
of desolation, which Jesus told the Church that it
would see: "When ye therefore shall see the
abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the
prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth,
let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea
flee into the mountains" (Matthew 24:15-16).

The “Bride” is not mentioned to be on Earth during the Trib. Both the Church and the Bride are not mentioned other than the beginning and the end of the book, yes both being one in the same.

The woman is yet another entity, never linked to the Bride or the Church, but to having bore the Messiah. Did the Church or the Bride give birth to Jesus? I though it was the other way around, that Jesus started the Church. It was the Jews that gave birth to the Messiah, specifically Mary mother of Jesus, but this meaning of those people. So the identity of the woman is inescapable, she is the Children of Israel of which the child came from.
 
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petehears asked in post #40:
[Re: The woman of Revelation 12 symbolizing the Church]
so then, would the symbolic woman of beast and harlot
fame be like an anti-church? (if you'll forgive the
made-up word)

Yes; and that's a good made-up word, for it expresses
what the woman of Revelation 17 is. If believers are
the Church, then unbelievers are the Antichurch; just
as believers are Christians, and unbelievers are
Antichristians: "even now are there many antichrists
... Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is
the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father
and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath
not the Father" (1 John 2:18,22).

In Revelation, the Church is pictured by the city of
Jerusalem: "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride,
the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit
to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that
great city, the holy Jerusalem" (Revelation 21:9-10).
So in Revelation the Antichurch is pictured by another
city which is the archetypal enemy of Jerusalem:
"BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5); "If I
forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget
her cunning. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue
cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not
Jerusalem above my chief joy. Remember, O LORD, the
children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said,
Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof. O
daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy
shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served
us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy
little ones against the stones" (Psalms 137:5-9);
"The violence done to me and to my flesh be upon
Babylon, shall the inhabitant of Zion say; and my
blood upon the inhabitants of Chaldea, shall
Jerusalem say" (Jeremiah 51:35).

So it is with the woman Babylon: "in her was found
the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that
were slain upon the earth" (Revelation 18:24).

bill16652 said in post #41:
If you are pre-trib as I am then you will understand
what I believe, the church will be gone

Note that the Bible doesn't teach that the Church will
be gone during the tribulation; the Bible doesn't
teach a pre-trib rapture, but teaches the opposite,
that the rapture will be post-trib: "after the
tribulation ... they shall see the Son of man coming
in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a
trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect"
(Matthew 24:29-31); "the coming of our Lord Jesus
Christ, and by our gathering together unto him"
(2 Thessalonians 2:1).

That's why Revelation shows the Church in the
tribulation: "Here is the patience and the faith of
the saints" (Revelation 13:10); "Here is the patience
of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I
heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from
henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit" (Revelation
14:12-13).

Faith_Warrior said in post #42:
The "Bride" is not mentioned to be on Earth during
the Trib.

Note that it is, for those who have the faith of the
saints are the Bride: "Here is the patience and the
faith of the saints" (Revelation 13:10); "the faith
which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 1:3);
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are
called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one
faith" (Ephesians 4:4-5); "we are members of his
body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause
shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall
be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one
flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak
concerning Christ and the church" (Ephesians 5:30-32).

This is why the marriage of the Bride doesn't happen
until after the tribulation: "Let us be glad and
rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of
the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself
ready" (Revelation 19:7). After the tribulation,
the rapture will gather together the Church to meet
Jesus in the clouds at His second coming: "we which
are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord
himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of
God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we
which are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord
in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

The Church will then be judged: "Our God shall come,
and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour
before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round
about him. He shall call to the heavens from above,
and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
Gather my saints together unto me; those that have
made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens
shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge
himself" (Psalms 50:3-6).

Then the Church will be married to Jesus: "Let us be
glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the
marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made
herself ready" (Revelation 19:7).

After the Church has been caught up, judged, and
married in the clouds, it will mount white horses
and descend back down from the sky (the first heaven)
with Jesus to rule the earth: "And I saw heaven
opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat
upon him was called Faithful and True, and in
righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes
were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many
crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew,
but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture
dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of
God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him
upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and
clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that
with it he should smite the nations: and he shall
rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the
winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty
God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a
name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
|
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried
with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly
in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves
together unto the supper of the great God; That ye
may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of
captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh
of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the
flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and
great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the
earth, and their armies, gathered together to make
war against him that sat on the horse, and against
his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the
false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with
which he deceived them that had received the mark of
the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These
both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with
brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword
of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded
out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with
their flesh.
|
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the
key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his
hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old
serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound
him a thousand years, And cast him into the
bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon
him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till
the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after
that he must be loosed a little season.
|
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and
judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of
them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and
for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the
beast, neither his image, neither had received his
mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and
they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the
thousand years were finished. This is the first
resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part
in the first resurrection: on such the second death
hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and
of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years"
(Revelation 19:11-20:6).

Faith_Warrior said in post #42:
The woman [of Revelation 12] is yet another entity,
never linked to the Bride or the Church, but to
having bore the Messiah.

Actually, the woman of Revelation 12 is linked to
the Bride, for she is clothed with righteousness just
as the Bride is clothed with righteousness: "And to
her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine
linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the
righteousness of saints" (Revelation 19:8); "a woman
clothed with the sun" (Revelation 12:1); "the Sun of
righteousness" (Malachi 4:2).

The "crown of twelve stars" (Revelation 12:1) set
upon the head of the woman represents the 12 apostles
set over the Church: "And God hath set some in the
church, first apostles" (1 Corinthians 12:28).

The "moon under her feet" (Revelation 12:1) could
represent Satan: "the God of peace shall bruise Satan
under your feet" (Romans 16:20), so that Revelation
12:1 could be a picture of what Revelation 12:11
expressly states: "And they overcame him [Satan] by
the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their
testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the
death" (Revelation 12:11).

Faith_Warrior asked in post #42:
Did the Church or the Bride give birth to Jesus?

Note that Revelation 12:5 isn't referring to the
birth of Jesus: "And she brought forth a man child,
who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and
her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne"
(Revelation 12:5). This is a future event, for
everything in Revelation after chapter 3 refers to
"things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1).

Revelation 12:5 is referring to the 144,000 part of
the Church being set apart as the "firstfruits" of
the Church (Revelation 14:4); it is the 144,000 who
will be caught up to God's throne in heaven right
before the reign of the Antichrist begins: "And I
looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and
with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having
his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I
heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many
waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I
heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
And they sung as it were a new song before the
throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders:
and no man could learn that song but the hundred and
forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the
earth. These are they which were not defiled with
women; for they are virgins. These are they which
follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were
redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto
God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no
guile: for they are without fault before the throne
of God" (Revelation 14:1-5).

Faith_Warrior said in post #42:
... the identity of the woman is inescapable, she is
the Children of Israel

That's right, the Children of Believing-Israel/the-
Church, which includes not only all believing Jews
but also all believing Gentiles: "at that time ye
were without Christ, being aliens from the
commonwealth of Israel, and strangers ... Now
therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners,
but fellowcitizens (Ephesians 2:12,19); "thou, being
a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them"
(Romans 11:17).

That's why the picture of the Bride is a picture of
the Children of Israel: "Come hither, I will shew
thee the bride ... the children of Israel"
(Revelation 21:9,12).

The 144,000 are just one part of the Bride, that part
which will be set apart as the "firstfruits" of the
Bride and caught up into heaven (Revelation 12:5,
14:1-5) right before the Antichrist's reign begins.

The woman of Revelation 12's fleeing into the
wilderness represents another part of the Bride which
will flee into protected places at the beginning of
the Antichrist's 3 1/2 year reign: "And the woman
fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place
prepared of God, that they should feed her there a
thousand two hundred and threescore days"
(Revelation 12:6).

The "remnant of her seed" (Revelation 12:17)
represents yet another part of the Bride which will
be in unprotected places during the Antichrist's
3 1/2 year reign: "And there was given unto him a
mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and
power was given unto him to continue forty and two
months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against
God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and
them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him
to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:
and power was given him over all kindreds, and
tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the
earth shall worship him, whose names are not written
in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the
foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let
him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go
into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must
be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and
the faith of the saints" (Revelation 13:5-10).

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they
that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of
Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto
me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord
from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit" (Revelation
14:12-13).
 
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Psalms34

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Actually, the woman of Revelation 12 is linked to
the Bride, for she is clothed with righteousness just
as the Bride is clothed with righteousness: "And to
her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine
linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the
righteousness of saints" (Revelation 19:8); "a woman
clothed with the sun" (Revelation 12:1); "the Sun of
righteousness" (Malachi 4:2).

Rev 19:8 is the Bride, the Church, the Saints, all the same. This is not on Earth but the vision into Heaven.

Rev 12:1-2 The women is with child. This child is born to rule the nations. This child is Jesus Christ. Again, how does the Church bare Christ if it didn’t exist? How does the child come before the mother? The woman bore the child, the woman already existed, for she is the Jews, not the Church. Remember that when this was written, there were no verse breaks (nor Chapters), you must take v1 in context with v2 and so on.

What does Malachi 4:2 really say in context? But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

Cross reference "My name" with Jeremiah 33:6 Behold, I will bring to it health and healing, and I will heal them; and I will reveal to them an abundance of peace and truth.
Also keep context of chapters and books with other chapters and books, as the scriptures are delivered so.

Only Jesus can heal.

And also in context of Malachi chapter 4:4 Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, With the statutes and judgments.
The law of Moses isn’t given to the Church, but to Israel.

The Sun of Righteousness is Jesus from which was born of the Jews (the woman), and the audience of the chapter are the Jews which the law was given to, not the Church.

All the rest you wrote falls to the wayside, it cannot stand if you miss the central characters as your post shows. Who the woman is, is without doubt the Jews, and the only way to miss that is to take it out of context, which your post has done.
 
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IisJustMe

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Ah. Good. If perople didn't go for that the chances of them going for these others things is low. Still, I really hope it isn't related to the mark. some people have taken it after all.
The mark means nothing until after the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation, and then only halfway through. No one taking a "smart card" or even this thing ...

Permanently implanted cell phone

... has negated his or her salvation, or the ability to be saved.
 
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Psalms34

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Yeah, to be more on topic here *chuckles* I agree it’s not the “smart card” but distinctively a mark (most likely RFID), in which is accepted with the premise to worship the beast, flagrantly.

All technology is based on existing technology, in that it’s built upon existing technology in progression. So the “smart card” may be a current form of technology we use, it is not the end-result technology that makes up the mark of the beast, which of course comes with the extra added price tag; being ones eternal soul.
 
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IisJustMe

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If you are pre-trib as I am then you will understand what I bel;ieve, the church will be gone but there will be those saved during tribulation, the woman is the Jewish which will be sheltered at Petra. There will be the 144,000 that will go forth and people will be saved. There is much to look at and cross reference with the Old Testament in order to gain a great understanding of Revelation.
images

What he said ...
 
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LongAgoNThGarden

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Hi :wave:

To Chip or NOT to Chip.

Here's my two shekles worth on the subject.

I believe it is highly possible that something like the “veri-chip” will eventually become the Mark of The Beast, and that we will be required to have it in order to buy or sell anything during The Great Tribulation of Revelation.

I believe that in America we are slowly being programmed into thinking it is ok to be chip’d.

They began by chip’n all the cats and dogs in the human societies here in America. After all, if they get out, they can be tracked, right?

Then they began a chip’n campaign directed toward senior citizens telling them that they could have all of their medical history and information with them in a chip. And if they ever had an emergency and they were unconscious from an accident or whatever, that the doctors in the ER could immediately access all their medical history and better care for them.

Then they began targeting parents regarding the safety of their children, telling them that if they chip their child, and their child is abducted then the police would have a better chance of finding them.

And then they began targeting patients in nursing homes since there have been many cases of them somehow getting out of the nursing homes and going places where they could be in danger, and with the chip they could easily be tracked down and returned to their nursing home and their supervised living conditions.

A couple years ago some government employees in Mexico were chip’d in order to access restricted areas in government buildings.

And just a few days ago I ran across an article describing how some company has devised a way to chip by using a tattoo.

Here is that link if you care to look at it, I didn’t bother reading it, just the title was enough for me.


http://www.techweb.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=KNPD4VS1Z0LFEQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN;?articleId=196802844


Again the point I’m making here is that we in America are being slowly conditioned into believing that to be chip’d is ok.

The National I.D. that we have heard about could be the step just before the Mark of the Beast.

The National I.D. is something the government wants us all to have soon. They claim it will help fight terrorism.

That’s so not true.

If they were really concerned about terrorists coming into America they would secure our borders, but they choose not to do that.

So the next step will be the National I.D.

But then soon after that takes place, they will tell us that the bad guys have found a way to counterfeit those too, and so we can all be chip’d then they can’t counterfeit them or steal them. Unless they cut off your arm or your heard. Ugh!

And with so many Americans already using cards for making purchases, if we get chip’d then bad guys can’t ever steal our cards and then everybody’s happy right? Not!

There are NOT gonna chip this dude!

And as a Born Again Christian I know that God in Christ will be with me every step of the way, no matter what happens, even in the darkest of hours that are yet to come.

Pray about it,
Garden:crossrc:
 
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IisJustMe

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There are NOT gonna chip this dude!
Again, at this juncture of history, it's irrelevant. I wouldn't want to get "chipped" either but no because it is the mark. The Mark of the Beast is mid-Trib, and we ain't in it. And I won't be here when it comes, either, even if that's three and a half years from today (it can't be any sooner than that) because as a believer I will be in heaven celebrating the wedding feast of the lamb when the Mark is introduced. The believers who will refuse it at that point, and be martyred, are the believers who come to Christ after the Rapture.
 
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Psalms34

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And of course, another important point is, the mark wont be distributed until the AC places himself in the rebuilt temple, into the holy of holies which is an actual place inside the temple, which doesn’t exist yet, and requires all people to take the mark under his allegiance and his proclamation of he being god. It's not so much the mark (or technology), but the mark to come being his mark.

I don't wear jewelry, not even a wrist watch (only pocket watch), not tattoos even, so I have no plans to take any mark of any sort no matter what.
 
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LongAgoNThGarden

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While I am not going to get into an argument concerning pre-mid-or post trib rapture, and you already have your mind made up as to how you choose to believe as do I.

I will say that since most all of God's prophets were martyred, and all but one of Christ's apostles were martyed, and the early church persecution, and how there have been more Christians martyred in that last 100 years then in all recorded history www.persecution.com, only in America can our ego's get so inflated as to think we will not be persecuted for Christ.

Jesus said, "If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you." John 15:20

While I'd would prefer pre or even med trib, I think it will be post trib.

Uncle Chucky had a good commit he made once when he said, "Pray for pre and prepare for post."

Garden:crossrc:
 
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Psalms34

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Mt 6:34 Don’t worry about tomorrow, today has enough cares of itself.

Too much going on with lookin’ for the AC and the mark, and not lookin’ for Jesus.
That’s one of the problems with the other views.

Yes, many will be martyred during the trib, we all agree on that, but maybe disagree with who that exactly is. Yet still, not something for us to worry about today.


heh *ponders* making a new thread entitled 'Rejoice: 777 is returning'
ehh maybe not making another new thread ;)
 
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IisJustMe

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While I'd would prefer pre or even med trib, I think it will be post trib.
Then I would respectfully say I disagree and we will let it drop at that. God bless.
 
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Bible2

Guest
Faith_Warrior said in post #45:
Rev 19:8 is the Bride, the Church, the Saints, all
the same. This is not on Earth but the vision into
Heaven.

Note that Revelation 12:1 is likewise a vision into
heaven: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;
a woman clothed with the sun". She is the Bride, the
Church, the Saints, clothed with "the Sun of
righteousness" (Malachi 4:2), just as the Bride, the
Church, the Saints, are clothed with righteousness
in Revelation 19:8: "And to her was granted that she
should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for
the fine linen is the righteousness of saints".
So the woman of Revelation 12:1 is the same woman as
the woman in Revelation 19:8.

But in neither case is it required that she be in the
third Heaven during the tribulation, for Revelation
12:7 shows that she is still on the earth during the
tribulation: "And the woman fled into the wilderness,
where she hath a place prepared of God, that they
should feed her there a thousand two hundred and
threescore days" (Revelation 12:6). And Revelation
19:7-8, the marriage of the Lamb, doesn't happen
until after the tribulation, when the Church will be
caught up into the sky (the first heaven) to meet
Jesus on His way down to the earth at His second
coming: "For this we say unto you by the word of the
Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the
coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from
heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians
4:15-17).

This second coming of Christ, sounding of the trumpet,
and gathering together of the Church is found in
Matthew 24: "after the tribulation ... they shall see
the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with
power and great glory. And he shall send his angels
with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall
gather together his elect" (Matthew 24:29-31); "the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering
together unto him" (2 Thessalonians 2:1).

This will be a gathering together of all those in the
Church both in heaven and in earth, that the whole
Church might be judged: "after that tribulation ...
then shall they see the Son of man coming in the
clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he
send his angels, and shall gather together his elect
from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the
earth to the uttermost part of heaven" (Mark
13:24-27); "He shall call to the heavens from above,
and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
Gather my saints together unto me" (Psalms 50:4-5);
"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the
Lord come" (1 Corinthians 4:5).

Once the Church has been raptured and judged in the
clouds, it will then be married: "Let us be glad and
rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of
the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself
ready" (Revelation 19:7).

Once the Church has been married in the clouds, it
will then mount white horses and descend back down
from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus to rule
the earth: "And the armies which were in heaven
followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine
linen, white and clean" (Revelation 19:14); "fine
linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the
righteousness of saints" (Revelation 19:8).

Faith_Warrior said in post #45:
Rev 12:1-2 The women is with child. This child is
born to rule the nations. This child is Jesus Christ.

Actually, the child of Revelation 12:5 isn't Jesus
Christ, for Revelation 12:5 is part of the "things
which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1).

"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule
all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was
caught up unto God, and to his throne" (Revelation
12:5). This refers to the 144,000 part of the Church
being set apart as the "firstfruits" (Revelation
14:4) of the Church; they will be caught up unto
God, and to his throne right before the Antichrist
begins His reign:

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount
Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four
thousand, having his Father's name written in their
foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the
voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great
thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping
with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song
before the throne, and before the four beasts, and
the elders: and no man could learn that song but the
hundred and forty and four thousand, which were
redeemed from the earth. These are they which were
not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These
are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he
goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the
firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their
mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault
before the throne of God" (Revelation 14:1-5).

After the second coming, the 144,000 will rule the
earth with a rod of iron with Jesus, just as the
rest of the Church will: "he that overcometh, and
keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give
power over the nations: And he shall rule them with
a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they
be broken to shivers: even as I received of my
Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that
hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
the churches" (Revelation 2:26-29); "[thou] hast made
us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign
on the earth" (Revelation 5:10); "they shall be
priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with
him a thousand years" (Revelation 20:6).

Faith_Warrior said in post #45:
[Re: Malachi 4:2]
The Sun of Righteousness is Jesus from which was born
of the Jews (the woman), and the audience of the
chapter are the Jews which the law was given to, not
the Church ... Who the woman is, is without doubt
the Jews

While the Sun of Righteousness (Malachi 4:2) clothing
the Church in Revelation 12:1 is Jesus, "THE LORD OUR
RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Jeremiah 23:6), note that the Church
doesn't give birth to the Sun in Revelation 12:5, for
she was already clothed with the Sun back in
Revelation 12:1; so, again, Revelation 12:5 isn't
referring to the birth of Jesus.

Also, because Malachi 4:2 is referring to Jesus, it's
referring to all those saved by the righteousness of
Jesus, and not those under the law: "for if
righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in
vain" (Galatians 2:21); "by the deeds of the law
there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for
by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the
righteousness of God without the law is manifested,
being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the
righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus
Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for
there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come
short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by
his grace through the redemption that is in Christ
Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation
through faith in his blood, to declare his
righteousness for the remission of sins that are
past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I
say, at this time his righteousness: that he might
be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in
Jesus" (Romans 3:20-26).

So Malachi 4:2 is addressing only those who have
faith in Jesus; and anyone who has faith in Jesus is
part of the Church: "There is one body, and one
Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your
calling; One Lord, one faith" (Ephesians 4:4-5);
"the faith which was once delivered unto the saints"
(Jude 1:3); "Here is the patience and the faith of
the saints" (Revelation 13:10); "Here is the patience
of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus"
(Revelation 14:12).

So we've come full circle and see once again that
the Church will be in the tribulation, and Revelation
12:1 is referring to the Church clothed with the
righteousness of Jesus by faith in Him.

Malachi 4:4 is something completely different,
referring to the Jews back before the New Covenant
had been made and abolished the law: "Behold, the
days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new
covenant with the house of Israel, and with the
house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that
I made with their fathers in the day that I took
them by the hand to bring them out of the land of
Egypt" (Jeremiah 31:31-32). This is the New Covenant
which Jesus established on the Cross: "For this is
my blood of the new testament [new covenant], which
is shed for many for the remission of sins"
(Matthew 26:28). This is the New Covenant under which
the Church was established: "Who also hath made us
able ministers of the new testament [new covenant]"
(2 Corinthians 3:6). And the Church consists not only
of all believing Jews, but also of all believing
Gentiles: "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into
one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles"
(1 Corinthians 12:13).

So the woman in Revelation 12:1 represents all those
in the Church, not only all believing Jews, but also
all believing Gentiles. There will be many believing
Gentiles in the tribulation: "lo, a great multitude,
which no man could number, of all nations, and
kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the
throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white
robes, and palms in their hands ... These are they
which came out of great tribulation, and have washed
their robes, and made them white in the blood of the
Lamb" (Revelation 7:9,14).

There could even be many believing Gentiles among the
144,000 "of all the tribes of the children of Israel"
(Revelation 7:4), for believing Gentiles have been
grafted into Believing Israel: "graffed in among
them" (Romans 11:17); "at that time ye were without
Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers ... Now therefore ye are no more
strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens"
(Ephesians 2:12,19). Believing Gentiles could be
grafted into the various tribes of Believing Israel.

Compare: "So shall ye divide this land unto you
according to the tribes of Israel. And it shall come
to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an
inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that
sojourn among you, which shall beget children among
you: and they shall be unto you as born in the
country among the children of Israel; they shall
have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the
stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his
inheritance, saith the Lord GOD" (Ezekiel 47:21-23).

If those who are "strangers" can become imtegral
parts of the tribes of Israel, how much more could
those who "are no more strangers" (Ephesians 2:19)
become imtegral parts of the tribes of Israel? Note
that the picture of the Bride is a picture of the
tribes of Israel: "Come hither, I will shew thee the
bride ... the twelve tribes of the children of
Israel" (Revelation 21:9,12).

So the Bible teaches no dichotomy between Believing
Israel and the Church; they are one and the same.
All believers on the earth during the tribulation, no
matter whether they are Jews or Gentiles, will be both
the Church and Believing Israel. Jewish believers on
the earth during the tribulation will be the Church
no less than Gentile believers on the earth during the
tribulation, just as Gentile believers on the earth
during the tribulation will be Believing Israel no
less than Jewish believers on the earth during the
tribulation.

So the woman of Revelation 12:1 is the Church: all
believing Jews and all believing Gentiles who will
be on the earth at that point in the tribulation.
 
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Bible2

Guest
isJustMe said in post #46:
The mark means nothing until after the Rapture and
the beginning of the Tribulation, and then only
halfway through.

Note that the Bible nowhere teaches that the Rapture
will be before the Tribulation. Unless we die, we
will all still be here to face the mark, which, as
you correctly pointed out, will not be instituted
until halfway through the Tribulation, for it will
not be instituted until the reign of the Antichrist
during the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation:

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great
things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him
to continue forty and two months" (Revelation 13:5);
during which time his False Prophet "causeth all,
both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,
to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their
foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he
that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the
number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath
understanding count the number of the beast: for it
is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred
threescore and six" (Revelation 13:16-18).

Note that this could mean that people could choose
whether to receive the mark in their right hand or in
their forehead, and that they could choose whether to
receive a symbol of the Antichrist, or his actual
name, or the gematrial number of his name: 666. So
the mark won't be any technology per se, but
something which will specifically indicate one's
allegiance to the Antichrist.

It could also be a brand mark, like shepherds brand
their sheep to show their ownership of them. After
declaring himself as "God" in a rebuilt Jewish temple
(2 Thessalonians 2:4), the Antichrist could brand all
of mankind with his symbol, name, or the gematrial
number of his name, to show his purported ownership
of mankind. Compare: "we are his people, and the
sheep of his pasture" (Psalms 100:3).

Just as brand marks can be crudely burned into the
flesh of the sheep, so could the Antichrist's brand
mark be something quite crude, which could be
performed anywhere at any anytime, instead of some
high technology which would be hard to implement in
less developed countries.

The mark could be cut into the hand or forehead with
a knife-point, deep enough so that it leaves an
indelible scar. The original Greek word for the
"mark" can refer to the scratching or etching of a
surface, just as scarification is the scratching or
etching of the surface of the skin.

The original Greek word for the "mark" can also refer
to a visible mark of servitude, which was placed on
ancient slaves. After declaring himself as "God"
(2 Thessalonians 2:4), the Antichrist could place his
symbol, name, or the gematrial number of his name on
all of mankind, to show that all of mankind are his
servants. Compare: "Praise our God, all ye his
servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great"
(Revelation 19:5).

The Antichrist could say that the true God placing
His name on people's foreheads was foretold in the
Bible: "having his Father's name written in their
foreheads" (Revelation 14:1); "his name shall be in
their foreheads" (Revelation 22:4). So he could say
that there is nothing evil about his mark, which he
could say is the prophesied mark of the true God.

The Antichrist could say that the true Christ writing
His name on people was foretold in the Bible: "I will
write upon him my new name" (Revelation 3:12). He
could say that his, the Antichrist's, name is "the
new name" of Christ.

The Antichrist will deny that Jesus himself is the
Christ, or that the Christ himself ever became flesh:
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist" (1 John 2:22); "And every
spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come
in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit
of antichrist" (1 John 4:3).

The Antichrist could claim that Jesus was just an
ordinary man who was only temporarily filled with
the Divine Spirit of Christ, like a glass being
temporarily filled with wine. The Antichrist could
claim that now the Divine Spirit of Christ has
returned from heaven to fill and empower him, the
Antichrist, and to be worshipped and served through
him.

The Antichrist could go even further and claim that
the Divine Spirit of Christ is none other than
Lucifer himself, for Lucifer is the morning star just
as Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16). So
instead of referring to "Jesus" Christ, the Antichrist
could say that "the new name" of Christ, "the real
name", is Lucifer Christ.

The whole world will be deceived into worshipping the
dragon Lucifer: "and all the world wondered after the
beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave
power unto the beast" (Revelation 13:3-4); "Even him,
whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
power and signs and lying wonders" (2 Thessalonians
2:9).

Even Christians will have to be careful not to be
deceived by what is coming: "then if any man shall
say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there;
believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets
shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to
seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take
ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things"
(Mark 13:21-23).

This is one reason why the false idea of a rapture
before the tribulation is so dangerous: it causes the
church to think that it doesn't have to be prepared
to face all the deceptions that are coming. It could
even cause many in the Church to be deceived by the
Antichrist, for they could reason: "Look, God
promised us a rapture before the Antichrist, so this
guy can't be the Antichrist because we haven't been
raptured. Also, this guy is warning us to beware of
the Antichrist that is coming, and he's saying that
Lucifer isn't Satan, but just another name for
Christ, and that we need to beware of Satan's coming
deceptions; so this guy very well could be inspired
by the true Christ. And look at these miracles his
prophet can do in the name of Christ; they're simply
amazing. I'm telling you this guy must be from God.
And like he says, taking the mark of God is foretold
in the Bible, so I for one am going to take it, no
problem. And, anyway, I'm starving and my babies are
starving, and the only way I can buy something to
eat is by taking the mark. I know God wouldn't want
me and my babies to starve to death, so I for one am
going to take the mark of God, no problem."

To convince any wavering Christians, the Antichrist
could say: "Look, why are you still hesitating? You
don't have to take '666' on you. To convince you that
I represent the real Christ, you can take my optional
mark of '777' on you instead. Okay?" This, along with
deceptive teachings, could be enough to convince many
Christians that the mark can't be evil.

The truth is that Lucifer fell from his position of
morning star and became Satan: "How art thou fallen
from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" (Isaiah
14:12); "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from
heaven" (Luke 10:18). The man Jesus has taken over
the office of morning star: "I Jesus have sent mine
angel to testify unto you these things in the
churches. I am the root and the offspring of David,
and the bright and morning star" (Revelation 22:16).

And even a mark which looks like "777" can still be
a deceptive version of "666", for the sixth letter
of the ancient Hebrew alphabet looks like a "7", and
in ancient times it stood for the number 6. So
cutting three of these Hebrew letters in a row into
one's hand could look like "7-7-7", but actually be
a disguised form of "6-6-6".

Also, one's own starvation or the starvation of one's
little ones will be no excuse for taking the mark,
for we must be willing to die before taking the mark,
and we cannot let our love for our little ones ever
blind us to our even greater love for God: "he that
loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of
me" (Matthew 10:37); "If any man come to me, and hate
not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,
and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life
also, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26); "He
that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that
hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto
life eternal" (John 12:25).

So Christians will be able to overcome the Antichrist
and Satan during the tribulation by being willing to
die faithfully before taking the mark: "And they
overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the
word of their testimony; and they loved not their
lives unto the death" (Revelation 12:11). "If any man
worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark
in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink
of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out
without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and
he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the
presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of
the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up
for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor
night, who worship the beast and his image, and
whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the
patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I
heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from
henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit" (Revelation
14:9-13).

So the whole purpose of the Bible telling us all
about the mark is so that we can begin to prepare
ourselves to be willing to die before we accept it.
The false idea of a pre-tribulation rapture can
completely undercut this purpose, this preparation,
and instead leave Christians with a shallow faith
which they could forsake during the coming
tribulation:

"... he that received the seed into stony places, the
same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy
receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but
dureth for a while: for when tribulation or
persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he
is offended" (Matthew 13:20-21); "Then shall they
deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you:
and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's
sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall
betray one another, and shall hate one another. And
many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive
many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of
many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved" (Matthew 24:9-13).

Many Christians could be so "offended" at finding
themselves in the tribulation, that they could even
curse God Himself "for lying to us that He would
rapture us before we entered the tribulation. He must
be pretty evil if he expects us and our little ones
to starve to death for Him while he doesn't even
lift a finger to help us!"

"And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and
hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they
shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and
curse their king and their God, and look upward. And
they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble
and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be
driven to darkness" (Isaiah 8:21-22).

Many Christians could be driven into the arms of the
Antichrist by their hunger and their anger at God.
The Antichrist could tell them: "Look, you were
deceived by that evil YHWH; he is a cruel, petty
tyrant who is now laughing at your suffering and the
suffering of your little ones, just as he himself
admits in his own word: 'I also will laugh at your
calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh'
(Proverbs 1:26); 'he will laugh at the trial of the
innocent' (Job 9:23). The suffering of you poor
innocent souls, and your poor innocent little ones,
is amusing to him! Yes, he is that evil, my friends.
But come, come, I have food for you and your little
ones. I will take care of you. Just take this little
mark on yourselves, '777' if you like, and together
we will make a stand against the evil one. How cruel
it was for him to set you up with that false hope of
a rapture before this tribulation, just so he could
pull the run out from under you at the last moment!
That is the way of the deceiver Satan, my friends,
for YHWH is Satan. But our Lord Lucifer Christ has
now returned from heaven to free us once and for all
from the deceptions of that vile imposter YHWH Satan".

The Antichrist could really say horrible things like
this against God, for "the king shall do according to
his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify
himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous
things against the God of gods" (Daniel 11:36); "And
there was given unto him a mouth speaking great
things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him
to continue forty and two months. And he opened his
mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his
name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in
heaven" (Revelation 13:5-6).

(continued)
 
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Bible2

Guest
(continued)

So it truly will be "creepy" when the Antichrist (the
gematrial number of whose name adds up to 666) begins
his reign over the earth. But Christians who know the
Word and are obedient will be able to answer all of
his deceptions. They could say: "No, you are wrong.
God never promised us that He would rapture us before
this tribulation, and He only laughs at the suffering
of those who have denied him, as you have; He in no
way laughs at the suffering of His saints: 'Precious
in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints'
(Psalms 116:15). Our death and the death of our
little ones from starvation or at your hands will be
no loss for us or for them, but even gain, for it
will allow our spirits and theirs to go be with JESUS
Christ, the true Christ, in heaven: 'to live is
Christ, and to die is gain ... having a desire to
depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better'
(Philippians 1:21,23); 'We are confident, I say, and
willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be
present with the Lord' (2 Corinthians 5:8)".

Christians could continue their answer to the
Antichrist: "And YHWH is in no way Satan, but is the
one who rebukes Satan: 'And YHWH said unto Satan,
YHWH rebuke thee, O Satan; even YHWH that hath
chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee' (Zechariah 3:2). It is
that dragon Lucifer whom you are extolling as 'the
true Christ' and 'the true God' who is Satan: 'And
they worshipped the dragon' (Revelation 13:4), 'the
great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called
the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole
world' (Revelation 12:9). And we know your fakery
with the '777 option' for the mark, for we know what
the letters of the ancient Hebrew alphabet looked
like and which numbers they stood for".

But even though many Christians will see right
through all of the coming deceptions, they still could
end up taking the mark when the Antichrist takes them
and begins to torture them and their screaming little
ones before their eyes, saying "Take the mark! Do it
now, or you will hear your little ones shriek as
you've never heard before! Take the mark now!" All
the intellectual knowledge of the Word which people
have could go out the window in an instant before the
harsh and overpowering reality of torture: "Okay!
Okay! I'll take the mark, even though I know it's
wrong. I trust that God will forgive me for doing
so out of weakness, and out of love for my little
ones. I know, I know, 'he that loveth son or daughter
more than me is not worthy of me' (Matthew 10:37),
but those are just words; we're talking horrible
reality here!"

So when the rubber meets the road, when the torture
begins, even those who were encouraging others to
"stay strong against the Antichrist; don't give in
no matter what", could crumble and give in in an
instant. Compare: "Behold, thou hast instructed many,
and thou hast strengthened the weak hands. Thy words
have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast
strengthened the feeble knees. But now it is come
upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and
thou art troubled" (Job 4:3-5).

So, in the end, intellectual knowledge of the Word
by itself won't be enough. We must also be obedient
to the Word, now, in these days, before the suffering
of the tribulation comes, if we are to withstand the
trial when it does come: "Therefore whosoever heareth
these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken
him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a
rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came,
and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it
fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every
one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth
them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which
built his house upon the sand: And the rain
descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew,
and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was
the fall of it" (Matthew 7:24-27).

So to spiritually prepare ourselves for the coming
tribulation, we not only have to intellectually know
what the Bible truly teaches and what it doesn't
teach, we also have to be obedient to all of its moral
teachings, now, in these days, if we are to avoid
spiritual disaster when the tribulation comes: "Here
is the patience of the saints: here are they that
keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus"
(Revelation 14:12); "For ye know what commandments we
gave you by the Lord Jesus" (1 Thessalonians 4:2);
"If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15);
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his
commandments: and his commandments are not grievous"
(1 John 5:3); "he became the author of eternal
salvation unto all them that obey him" (Hebrews 5:9);
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall
enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth
the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew
7:21); "Ye see then how that by works a man is
justified, and not by faith only" (James 2:24).

And some Christians think that if they do many good
works of faith, that God will overlook their
unrepentant sin; but He won't, no matter how great
their good works are: "Many will say to me in that
day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name
done many wonderful works? And then will I profess
unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that
work iniquity" (Matthew 7:22-23); "For if we sin
wilfully after that we have received the knowledge
of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for
sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment
and fiery indignation, which shall devour the
adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without
mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer
punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy,
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath
counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was
sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite
unto the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Continuing in unrepentant sin is so dangerous that it
can warp our very thinking to the point where we will
become willing to reject what the Bible teaches and
go after what demons teach instead: "Now the Spirit
speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some
shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing
spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in
hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot
iron" (1 Timothy 4:1-2); "Preach the word; be instant
in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort
with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time
will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;
but after their own lusts shall they heap to
themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they
shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall
be turned unto fables" (2 Timothy 4:2-4).

"I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled
Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be
corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For
if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we
have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit,
which ye have not received, or another gospel, which
ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him ...
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers,
transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into
an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if
his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of
righteousness; whose end shall be according to their
works" (2 Corinthians 11:3-4,13-15).

This all has serious application to the coming
deceptions of the Antichrist, for those Christians
who are now living in unrighteousness also have the
"deceivableness of unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians
2:10); "A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips"
(Proverbs 17:4). We've got to repent now, in these
days, if we are not to be deceived by the Satanic
teachings and miracles of the Antichrist: "Even him,
whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
power and signs and lying wonders, And with all
deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that
perish; because they received not the love of the
truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should
believe a lie: That they all might be damned who
believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12).

Now someone could answer: "That doesn't apply to
unrighteous Christians because they do believe the
truth, even though they might need to repent from
some sin". But, actually, our continuing in unrepentant
sin shows that deep down we don't really believe the
truth, that we don't really believe that "they which
do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God"
(Galatians 5:21), or that "except ye repent, ye shall
all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3), or that "he which
converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall
save a soul from death" (James 5:20). Instead, our
continuing in unrepentant sin shows that deep down we
believe Satan's original lie ("Ye shall not surely
die", Genesis 3:4), that deep down we think that God
will let us off in the end no matter what we do:
"Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said
in his heart, Thou wilt not require it" (Psalms
10:13); "The transgression of the wicked saith within
my heart, that there is no fear of God before his
eyes" (Psalms 36:1).

Christians can get cocky in their unrepentant sin
when they see that they haven't been struck by
lightning, and that they haven't lost any of their
daily comforts and pleasures, and that they are
continuing to operate in the gifts of the Spirit and
do many good works of faith. They figure: "What do
you know? God still approves of me even in my sin.
He must not think that it's that big of a deal. So
if He feels that way, I might as well keep on doing
it, for, man, how I love it!" And so they strut on
their way to speak at the the next big Church
seminar, whistling dixie about their plans to secretly
meet with their adulterous lover both before and
afterward. They think they're pretty smart getting to
enjoy both the pleasures of God and sin at the same
time.

"Because sentence against an evil work is not
executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of
men is fully set in them to do evil" (Ecclesiastes
8:11). "Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD,
and depart from evil" (Proverbs 3:7). "The fear of
the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the
snares of death" (Proverbs 14:27). "By mercy and
truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD
men depart from evil" (Proverbs 16:6). "Fear him,
which after he hath killed hath power to cast into
hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him" (Luke 12:5).

And wouldn't you know it, their talk at the next big
Church seminar could even be titled: "No
Condemnation", with its key verse being: "There is
therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1). Of course, they leave off
the rest of the verse and its context: "There is
therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after
the Spirit ... For if ye live after the flesh, ye
shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify
the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Romans 8:1,13).
"I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection:
lest that by any means, when I have preached to
others, I myself should be a castaway" (1 Corinthians
9:27); "have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done
many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto
them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work
iniquity" (Matthew 7:22-23).

So, once again, now is the time for repentance, not
only to avoid damnation should we die unexpectedly
in unrepentant sin ("Thou fool, this night thy soul
shall be required of thee", Luke 12:20), but to avoid
being deceived by the coming Antichrist, to avoid
the "deceivableness of unrighteousness"
(2 Thessalonians 2:10), and so avoid taking the mark
and incurring God's eternal wrath against us
(Revelation 14:9-13).
 
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IisJustMe

He rescued me because He delighted in me (Ps18:19)
Jun 23, 2006
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Bible, if we wanted to read a book, we'd buy it. If you're writing one, let us know. But this is getting somewhat annoying. This is a discussion board, not a lecture hall. Very fww people are going to read something this lengthy and repetitive.
 
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