Creepy: 666 is comming

[Bible2]

LongAgoNThGarden said in post #50:
There are NOT gonna chip this dude!

The scary thing about microchips is that one can't
necessarily know what data they contain; one could
receive an RFID chip in one's hand "for practical
reasons" not knowing that the number 666 is the first
piece of data sent out by the chip every time that
it's read. So one could have "666" imbedded in one's
hand, and one could be sending out "666" as the first
and most important thing about one's identity, without
even knowing it.

But for fear that a "666 panic" could hinder the
acceptance of such an RFID chip, the number could be
disguised in some way to that it's not so obvious.
This disguising has already taken place in regard to
the data which begins the URL of many websites: WWW.
People think that it only stands for "World Wide
Web", but it also stands for 666, for the sixth letter
of the ancient Hebrew alphabet, which stood for the
number 6, is transliterated into English as a W. In
this way, "666" is at the beginning of the URL of
even Christian websites, without them even knowing it.

Also, many UPC codes have a diguised "666" on them,
for the two thin black lines which represent the
number 6 are also placed at the beginning, middle,
and end of these UPC codes, so that "6-6-6" is
strung across the codes. These disguised 6's are
even creepily called "control codes". In this way
"666" has been placed even on Bibles for sale,
without their purchasers knowing it.

There is even a popular energy drink that makes fun
of all of this. On the side of its cans it says
something like "Unlock the beast!", no doubt
referring to "the beast" of Revelation 13, the
Antichrist. The symbol on the front of the can looks
like a ragged scratch from the claws of some monster.
This scratch consists of what looks like three 7's
in a row, so that together they look like an M, the
first letter of the name of the drink. But these
three 7's look just like the sixth letter of the
ancient Hebrew alphabet, which stood for the number
6, so that the three 7's are actually a disguised
form of 6-6-6.

Many people drink this drink without even getting the
joke. Others place stickers just of the symbol for
the drink on their cars, possibly fully aware of what
it stands for, like those who place stickers of
a pentagram on their cars know full well what the
pentagram stands for. Who knows? Maybe the symbol for
the drink isn't a joke in the end, just as the
pentagram isn't a joke. Maybe the drink, which is
becoming more and more popular, is just another way
of seriously desensitizing people to what is coming,
so that when the real thing does come it will be
familiar to people, not strange at all; it will
appear to people as completely harmless, even a
little fun.

IisJustMe said in post #51:
I will be in heaven celebrating the wedding feast of
the lamb when the Mark is introduced.

Note that not even the wedding of the Lamb itself
will take place until after the tribulation:
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him:
for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife
hath made herself ready" (Revelation 19:7). And
the wedding feast won't take place until after the
second coming: "And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed
are they which are called unto the marriage supper
of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true
sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship
him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am
thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the
testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of
Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
|
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;
and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and
True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make
war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his
head were many crowns; and he had a name written,
that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed
with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is
called The Word of God. And the armies which were in
heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in
fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth
goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the
nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and
wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and
on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD
OF LORDS.
|
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried
with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly
in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves
together unto the supper of the great God; That ye
may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of
captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh
of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the
flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and
great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the
earth, and their armies, gathered together to make
war against him that sat on the horse, and against
his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the
false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with
which he deceived them that had received the mark of
the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These
both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with
brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword
of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded
out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with
their flesh" (Revelation 19:9-21).

So the wedding feast of the Lamb is on the earth,
after the tribulation, at the second coming. The
birds will feast on the dead bodies of the wicked,
while, regarding the Church: "in this mountain shall
the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of
fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat
things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well
refined. And he will destroy in this mountain the
face of the covering cast over all people, and the
vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow
up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away
tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his
people shall he take away from off all the earth: for
the LORD hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that
day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and
he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for
him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation"
(Isaiah 25:6-9).

Note that Paul refers to this event as connected with
the resurrection of the Church at the second coming:
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all
be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ
the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at
his coming... when this corruptible shall have put on
incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on
immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying
that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory"
(1 Corinthians 15:22-23,54). Here Paul is referring
back to "He will swallow up death in victory" (Isaiah
25:8) in the passage about the feast at the second
coming (Isaiah 25:6-9). So the resurrection of the
Church will occur on the same day as the marriage
feast on the earth at the second coming.

We see this confirmed in Revelation, where after
referring to the marriage feast (Revelation
19:9-21), it says: "And I saw thrones, and they sat
upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I
saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which
had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,
or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with
Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead
lived not again until the thousand years were
finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and
holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power, but they
shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall
reign with him a thousand years" (Revelation 20:4-6).

So the first resurrection after the second coming,
the resurrection of the Church, "they that are
Christ's at his coming" (1 Corinthians 15:23), will
include all those in the Church who were beheaded by
the Antichrist for refusing the mark.

 

[Bible2]

Faith_Warrior said in post #54:
Mt 6:34 Don’t worry about tomorrow, today has enough
cares of itself.

While we aren't to be worried about tomorrow, we are
to be fully aware of what has to happen, so that we
won't be surprised or deceived by any of it: "take ye
heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark
13:23); "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God
gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which
must shortly come to pass" (Revelation 1:1); "I Jesus
have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things
in the churches" (Revelation 22:16). So all of
Revelation is for the Church, just as all of Matthew
24 is for the Church, so that the Church might
"endure unto the end" (Matthew 24:13); "Here is the
patience and the faith of the saints" (Revelation
13:10).

Faith_Warrior said in post #54:
Too much going on with lookin’ for the AC and the
mark, and not lookin’ for Jesus. That’s one of the
problems with the other views.

Actually, the post-trib view doesn't have that
problem, for it is still waiting for Jesus to
return, even though it knows that the Antichrist
has to come first, for the day of the coming of Jesus
and our gathering together to Him can't happen until
sometime after an apostasy and the abomination of
desolation:

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our
Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto
him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be
troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by
letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at
hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that
day shall not come, except there come a falling away
[apostasia] first, and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth
himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple
of God, shewing himself that he is God"
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

And Jesus' coming to gather us together to Him must
destroy the Antichrist: "that Wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his
mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his
coming [parousia]" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). So there's
just no way that Jesus will come back before the
reign of the Antichrist.

And even after the Antichrist's 42-month reign
(Revelation 13:5) is over, and the vials of God's
wrath (Revelation 16) begin to be poured out, the
post-trib view knows that it will have to go into
protected chambers on the earth until the vials are
done: "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers,
and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it
were for a little moment, until the indignation be
overpast" (Isaiah 26:20).

After the sixth vial is poured out (Revelation
16:12-14), Jesus will give a blessing to those in the
Church still alive on the earth, encouraging them to
hang on just a little longer until He comes as a
thief: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that
watcheth" (Revelation 16:15). This could be the same
blessing as: "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh
to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty
days" (Daniel 12:12), which could refer to Jesus
returning 1,335 days after the abomination of
desolation: "And from the time that the daily
sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination
that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a
thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he
that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three
hundred and five and thirty days" (Daniel 12:11-12).

The Antichrist's 42-month reign (Revelation 13:5)
will last for about 1,260 days, after which the
vials of wrath (Revelation 16) will commence. The
first six vials could last for about 30 days, so
that by the time the sixth vial is poured out,
1,290 days could have elapsed since the abomination
of desolation. It is on this 1,290th day that the
blessing of Revelation 16:15/Daniel 12:12 could be
spoken to those in the Church still alive on the
earth, encouraging them to hang on just 45 more
days until Jesus' return on the 1,335th day. These
45 days could be taken up by the gathering of all
the armies of the world to Armageddon (Mount Megiddo
in northern Israel) to attempt to fight Jesus at His
return:

"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the
great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was
dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might
be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like
frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of
the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the
false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils,
working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of
the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to
the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold,
I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and
keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they
see his shame. And he gathered them together into a
place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon"
(Revelation 16:12-16).

"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and
their armies, gathered together to make war against
him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And
the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet
that wrought miracles before him, with which he
deceived them that had received the mark of the
beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both
were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with
brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword
of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded
out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with
their flesh" (Revelation 19:19-21).

Now someone could say, "No, Jesus can't return on the
1,335th day after the abomination of desolation
because then people will know the day of His coming,
and Jesus said no one will know the day". Actually,
Jesus didn't say no one "will" know the day; all He
said was nobody "knows" the day: "of that day and
hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36); "the things of
God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we
have received, not the spirit of the world, but the
spirit which is of God; that we might know the things
that are freely given to us of God" (1 Corinthians
2:11-12); "when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he
will guide you into all truth ... and he will shew
you things to come" (John 16:13); "Surely the Lord
GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto
his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).

And even if Jesus will return on the 1,335th day
after the abomination of desolation, it still holds
true today that no one knows the day of Jesus'
return, because no one knows what day the abomination
of desolation will happen, even though some say it
could happen on December 21, 2012.

If that date is right, then the tribulation could
start next year, with the Middle East war of Daniel
11:15-16, in which tiny Israel will be defeated and
occupied, possibly by a massive Iraqi Army built up
by the U.S. to conquer huge Iran instead. This could
be the war which starts the tribulation, which, with
its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up
killing one-fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8).
In Revelation 6:4, the "great sword" could be nuclear
weapons. Israel could employ its entire nuclear
arsenal in desperation and in revenge when it sees
that it cannot defend itself against the massive
Iraqi Army, which could be aided by the Syrian Army
and its missiles, and by missiles shot at Israel from
Iran.

Israel could target "all hostile nations" with
nuclear bombs, so that Baghdad, Damascus, and Tehran,
along with many other major cities in Iraq, Syria,
and Iran, could all be nuked, killing tens of millions
of people. And the radioactive fallout drifting
eastward could end up killing hundreds of millions of
people in Pakistan and India.

Someone could say, "No, Israel wouldn't do that".
Don't be too sure. Look at what it did to southern
Beirut in its last war against Hezbollah. It turned
southern Beirut into a heap of rubble, so that
Hezbollah would be deterred from ever attacking Israel
again; for Hezbollah saw that the damage Israel can
do to Hezbollah is far, far worse than anything it
can ever do to Israel with its little missiles. So
the current leadership of the Israeli Army has a
policy of massively-outsized retaliation. If Israel
could do to southern Beirut what it did in retaliation
for some relatively light damage from Hezbollah's
little missiles, how much more could it be willing to
utterly destroy all the major cities of those nations
involved in the total destruction of Israel in the
future? (Daniel 11:15-16).

 

[IisJustMe]

Note that not even the wedding of the Lamb itself will take place until after the tribulation:

Not only do you drone on and on, but you do so with wrong interpretation. The Revelation is not chronological. Revelation 19 takes place in heaven, just after chapter 18 in which we see the martyrs from the earth in heaven. There is no change of scene. It is a continuous event, simultaneous with the events earth. I don't expect you to accept this, and I can't tolerate your misrepresentation of Scripture, so I will bow out now and pray God reveals His truth to you. I will also remind you, this is a closed forum, one in which you must agree to the statement of faith of the non-denom board, or post only for fellowship and to ask questions. Your views do not line up with that SoF, therefore you should limit yourself in your posts, and not debate.

 

[psalms 91]

Not only do you drone on and on, but you do so with wrong interpretation. The Revelation is not chronological. Revelation 19 takes place in heaven, just after chapter 18 in which we see the martyrs from the earth in heaven. There is no change of scene. It is a continuous event, simultaneous with the events earth. I don't expect you to accept this, and I can't tolerate your misrepresentation of Scripture, so I will bow out now and pray God reveals His truth to you. I will also remind you, this is a closed forum, one in which you must agree to the statement of faith of the non-denom board, or post only for fellowship and to ask questions. Your views do not line up with that SoF, therefore you should limit yourself in your posts, and not debate.

I agree just skipped over the books

 

[Psalms34]

@ Bible2 But the Church and Israel are not the same. Israel is still a distinctive people and have promises that are still to be fulfilled, and God keeps His promises, they weren’t all “if you do“ promises but eternal ones for His name sake. The current state of Israel still needs to repent and turn to Jesus as a nation, but it will happen, but not until the Church is removed from the scene. The Church is not Israel and Israel in not the Church. The Church is the Church and consists of what were Jews and what were Gentiles, but is only the Church now, being Sons and Daughters of God, not Jew, Greek, Gentile. So when you see the woman, that is Israel and no other, not the Church + Israel and not only the Church, but Israel. If you miss that, it messes up not only Revelation, but all the books of the bible when dealing with eschatology

I gotta agree with Iisjustme on this, no need to get into arm twisting and headlocks
Peace out.

 

[Bible2]

isJustMe said in post #63
The Revelation is not chronological

Note that it could be, insofar as the seven trumpets
could come out of the seventh seal (Revelation
8:1-2), and the plagues of the seven vials
(Revelation 16) could come out of the temple-opening
of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15,19, 15:5-6).

isJustMe said in post #63
Revelation 19 takes place in heaven ...

Note that nothing requires that the marriage of the
Lamb (Revelation 19:7) will take place in the third
heaven; it could take place in the first heaven,
the sky, at the second coming, after the tribulation,
which is when the rapture occurs (Matthew 24:29-31,
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

isJustMe said in post #63
... just after chapter 18 in which we see the martyrs
from the earth in heaven

While those in the Church who have been martyred will
be in the third heaven when Babylon is destroyed at
the end of the tribulation (Revelation 18:20), we see
that some in the Church will still be alive on the
earth during that time (Revelation 18:4, Isaiah
26:20).

A prior reference to martyrs, in Revelation 15:2,
also refers to the third heaven, for it refers to the
sea of glass of Revelation 4:6; and the spirits of all
believers go into the third heaven when they die
(2 Corinthians 5:8).

After the tribulation, at the time of the rapture,
Jesus will bring all of the spirits of all believers
who have ever died with him from heaven
(1 Thessalonians 4:14) and they will descend to the
earth and their bodies will be resurrected
(1 Thessalonians 4:16) into immortality. Then all
those believers who survived the tribulation and are
still alive will be changed instantaneously into
immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then, once
all of the dead believers have been resurrected and
all of the living believers have been changed, all
believers will be caught up (raptured) in their
immortal bodies into the sky to be where Jesus will
be in the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

Once all believers have been gathered together to
Jesus (Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1), and have
been judged (Psalms 50:4-5) and married (Revelation
19:7) in the clouds, they will all mount white horses
and descend from the sky (the first heaven) with
Jesus to rule the earth (Revelation 19:14-20:6).

So the tribulation martyrs of Revelation 15:2 will be
fully involved in the resurrection, rapture, and
reign of the Church, because, as believers, they are
full members of the Church. The Church consists of
all believers, all who have the one faith in Jesus
(Ephesians 4:4-5), the one faith of the saints
(Jude 1:3, Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13).

isJustMe said in post #63
Your views do not line up with that SoF

In what way do you feel that they don't?

 

[Bible2]

Faith_Warrior said in post #65
... the Church and Israel are not the same

Actually, they are the same, insofar as all believing
Jews are both in the Church and Israel (Romans 11:1),
and insofar as all believing Gentiles have been
grafted into Believing Israel (Romans 11:17,
Ephesians 2:12,19). The only Israel from which the
Church is completely separated is Unbelieving Israel
(Romans 11:28), which actually isn't the true Israel
(Romans 9:6-24), except for that remnant of
Unbelieving Israel (Romans 9:27-29) who have been
elected by God (Romans 11:28) to all come to belief
and be saved at the second coming (Romans 11:26,
Zechariah 12:10). And because all of that remnant
will come to belief, they will all be grafted back
into Believing Israel (Romans 11:23-24), and so they
will all be joined to the Church, for all believers
are in the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

So Believing Israel and the Church are one and the
same. This is why the picture of the Church is a
picture of Believing Israel (Revelation 21:9,12).

Faith_Warrior said in post #65
Israel is still a distinctive people and have
promises that are still to be fulfilled

Note that Believing Israel, the Church, is now the
distinctive people (1 Peter 2:9). And all those in
the Church, both believing Jews and believing
Gentiles, will all receive all of the promises made
to Israel (Galatians 3:16,29; Ephesians 2:12,19;
Romans 15:27).

Faith_Warrior said in post #65
The current state of Israel still needs to repent and
turn to Jesus as a nation, but it will happen, but
not until the Church is removed from the scene.

Note that no scripture says that all of Israel can't
turn to Jesus until the Church is removed from the
scene, for the Church will never be removed from
the scene (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15); and all of
the elect remnant of Unbelieving Israel will turn to
Jesus at the second coming (Romans 11:26-29,
Zechariah 12:10), when the whole Church will be very
much in the scene (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Mark
13:24-27, Revelation 19:7-20:6).

Faith_Warrior said in post #65
The Church is not Israel and Israel in not the Church

Actually, the Church is not Unbelieving Israel and
Unbelieving Israel is not the Church; but the Church
is Believing Israel and Believing Israel is the Church.

Faith_Warrior said in post #65
The Church is the Church and consists of what were
Jews and what were Gentiles

Note that the Church contains those who can still be
identified as either Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles
(Romans 16:4), even though they have been joined into
one body (1 Corinthians 12:13), and there is no
distinction between them regarding salvation or any
of the promises which they will receive (Galatians
3:16,28-29, Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 15:27).

Faith_Warrior said in post #65
... when you see the woman, that is Israel and no
other, not the Church

Note that when we see the woman of Revelation 12:1,
19:8, that is Believing Israel, the Church, for she
is clothed with the righteousness of Jesus (Malachi
4:2, Jeremiah 23:6) through faith in Jesus (Romans
3:22-26, Revelation 13:10, 14:12).

Faith_Warrior said in post #65
If you miss that, it messes up not only Revelation,
but all the books of the bible when dealing with
eschatology

It's correct to say that missing the actual
relationship between Israel and the Church will
totally mess up one's understanding of Revelation and
the other Biblical books dealing with eschatology, for
they were all given to Believing Israel, the Church
(2 Timothy 3:15-16; 2 Peter 1:19). Passages such as
Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6-18 were given
to the Church so that it might prepare itself to
endure unto the end of the tribulation (Matthew 24:13)
with patience and faith and obedience (Revelation
13:10, 14:12), always waiting for the second coming
and rapture (after the tribulation, Matthew 24:29-31;
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8) which will make all of the
sufferings of the Church worthwhile (Acts 14:22;
1 Peter 1:13, 4:12-13; 2 Corinthians 4:17-18;
1 Corinthians 15:54-58, Revelation 14:13).

 

[Sketcher]

This idea of a technological mark of the beast is relatively new. Heck, some people thought it was when the Roman emporer had his image on Roman currency. I try to stay out of the tinfoil hat business about the mark and I rest in knowing that we will know the Antichrist when he comes because of his blasphemies (Rev 13:1-6).

 

[Psalms34]

It's correct to say that missing the actual
relationship between Israel and the Church will
totally mess up one's understanding of Revelation and
the other Biblical books dealing with eschatology, for
they were all given to Believing Israel, the Church
(2 Timothy 3:15-16; 2 Peter 1:19). Passages such as
Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6-18 were given
to the Church so that it might prepare itself to
endure unto the end of the tribulation (Matthew 24:13)
with patience and faith and obedience (Revelation
13:10, 14:12), always waiting for the second coming
and rapture (after the tribulation, Matthew 24:29-31;
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8) which will make all of the
sufferings of the Church worthwhile (Acts 14:22;
1 Peter 1:13, 4:12-13; 2 Corinthians 4:17-18;
1 Corinthians 15:54-58, Revelation 14:13).

Much of the NT is directed at the Jews as well. The writings of Matthew, which you tend to reference a lot, were especially directed for the Jewish ears. The Church didn't even exist when the words of Matthew 24 were delivered, nor any of that book. There was no Church to address until Pentecost. You need to change the meaning of the entire NT by taking it out of context to say it's all about the Church from beginning to end. You must keep in mind when the message is delivered, the setting, and the people that were the audience. It just cant be mixed and matched or replaced with one another. Where the bible says Jew or Israel, that is what it means, when it says Church, then that is the audience. it's literal!


What's the term, dead man's switch? Yeaaaah...
...must be a broken. Here, I'll just fix that for ya'
*clank - clank* *SSWWEEZZZ* *bang - bang - bang*
...nope, it's toasted.
She cant take much more of this, captain!!!
Beam me up, Scotty.
*TZZZZZZzzzzzz*
He's dead, Jim!
"Destruct sequence 1, code 1-1 A."
"Destruct sequence 2, code 1-1 A-2B."
"Destruct sequence 3, code 1 B-2B-3."
"Destruct sequence completed and engaged. Awaiting final code for one-minute countdown"
"Code zero zero zero. Destruct. Zero."
....... ...... ..... .... ... .. . *BOOOOOM!!!*

 

[Bible2]

twistedsketch said in post #68:
... we will know the Antichrist when he comes because
of his blasphemies (Rev 13:1-6).

The Antichrist will be unmistakably revealed when he
sits in a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem and
blasphemously proclaims himself God: "that man of sin
be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and
exalteth himself above all that is called God, or
that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the
temple of God, shewing himself that he is God"
(2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

This is the abomination of desolation that Jesus told
the Church it would see: "When ye therefore shall see
the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel
the prophet, stand in the holy place" (Matthew 24:15).
"... arms shall stand on his part, and they shall
pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take
away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the
abomination that maketh desolate" (Daniel 11:31).
"... he shall confirm the covenant with many for one
week [seven]: and in the midst of the week [seven] he
shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall
make it desolate" (Daniel 9:27).

Note that the abomination of desolation will occur
about 3 1/2 years after the confirmation of a seven-
year covenant, or treaty, which the Antichrist will
make with the Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, allowing
them to continue to make Mosaic animal sacrifices
before a rebuilt temple. So the man who makes this
treaty will be able to be recognized as the
Antichrist some 3 1/2 years before he breaks it,
stop the sacrifices, and commits the abomination of
desolation.

And even before he makes the treaty, he will be known
as possibly being the Antichrist because the gematrial
numbers of the letters in his name will add up to 666
(Revelation 13:17-18). That's assuming that his name
will be in the news before he first takes power,
defeats the Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, and makes the
treaty with them (Daniel 11:21-23, 9:26).

 

[Bible2]

Faith_Warrior said in post #69:
The Church didn't even exist when the words of
Matthew 24 were delivered, nor any of that book.

Note that that doesn't matter because it still
contains many teachings given by Jesus to the Church
that would exist later: "I will build my church"
(Matthew 16:18); "the church" (Matthew 18:17).

Matthew 24 was addressed to the Apostles upon which
the Church would be built (Ephesians 2:20), and so
was addressed through them to the Church, especially
to those in the Church who will enter the Tribulation.

Matthew 24:9 is referring to believers in Jesus who
will be in the Tribulation (cf. Revelation 13:10,
14:12-13), and all believers in Jesus are in the
Church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

Note that Paul repeats to the Church the Communion
teaching which Jesus gave to the Apostles in Matthew:
"this is my blood of the new testament" (Matthew
26:28), "the new testament in my blood"
(1 Corinthians 11:25).

And how many in the Church reject the Lord's Prayer
(Matthew 6:9-13) and the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew
chapters 5-7) as not being for the Church, simply
because they are in Matthew? If we in the Church
gladly keep the Lord's Prayer and the Sermon on the
Mount, then we should also be willing to keep
Matthew 24.

Faith_Warrior said in post #69:
Where the bible says Jew or Israel, that is what it
means

Note that the words "Jew" or "Israel" aren't used in
Matthew 24, just as they aren't used in the Lord's
Prayer and the Sermon on the Mount.

Also, the word "Jew" isn't used in the Tribulation
chapters of Revelation (chapters 6-18); and the word
"Israel" is used only one time in those chapters, to
refer to the 144,000 believers in Jesus who will be
sealed in the Tribulation (Revelation 7:3-4, 14:1-5).
They are referred to as being "of the children of
Israel", and they are also of the Bride, for the Bride
includes all believers in Jesus (Ephesians 4:4-5).
This is why later in Revelation, the picture of the
Bride is a picture of the children of Israel: "Come
hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife
... the children of Israel" (Revelation 21:9,12).

Even believing Gentiles have been grafted into Israel:
"graffed in among them" (Romans 11:17); "at that time
ye were without Christ, being aliens from the
commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the
covenants of promise ... Now therefore ye are no more
strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens"
(Ephesians 2:12,19); "the Gentiles have been made
partakers of their spiritual things" (Romans 15:27).

Both the words "Jew" and "Israel" can refer to the
Church: "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;
neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the
flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and
circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit"
(Romans 2:28-29); "we are the circumcision, which
worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ
Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh"
(Philippians 3:3).

"... they are not all Israel, which are of Israel ...
the children of the promise are counted for the seed"
(Romans 9:6,8); "Now to Abraham and his seed were the
promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of
many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is
Christ ... if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's
seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Galatians
3:16,29); "the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of
the same body" (Ephesians 3:6).

 

[Psalms34]

Note that that doesn't matter because it still
contains many teachings given by Jesus to the Church
that would exist later: "I will build my church"
(Matthew 16:18); "the church" (Matthew 18:17).

It does matter, it matters a lot regarding exactly whom you are addressing. He came to Israel first, His words were for them first, addressed to them. First to Israel, then to the gentiles later (the mystery), not at the same time, and Matthew is definitely the Gospel book tailored for Israel, by far. Too bad you cant get that point. I just don't dig spiritualizing meanings of the text, it makes for considerable confusion through the whole of scripture when scripture is suppose to be cohesive and literal in meaning. It gets one buried under piles of error that takes a whole doing to get one out. Been there, done that, I didn't come to the realization of all this until after my first 8 years of being a Christian.

*life pod lands on desert planet, all alone*

 

[Bible2]

Faith_Warrior said in post #72:
... it matters a lot regarding exactly whom you are
addressing

Whom was Jesus addressing when He said: "For God so
loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life"? (John 3:16).

He was addressing only Nicodemus: "Nicodemus answered
and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus
answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of
Israel, and knowest not these things?" (John 3:9-10).

Does it matter a lot that Jesus was addressing John
3:16 only to Nicodemus? Or does it not matter at all
in regard to John 3:16's full application to the
Church?

Whom was Jesus addressing when "Jesus saith unto
him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
cometh unto the Father, but by me"? (John 14:6).

Jesus was addressing only the apostle Thomas: "Thomas
saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest;
and how can we know the way?" (John 14:5).

Does it matter a lot that Jesus was addressing John
14:6 only to the the apostle Thomas? Or does it not
matter at all in regard to John 14:16's full
application to the Church?

Whom was Jesus addressing when He said: "In my
Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so,
I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for
you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will
come again, and receive you unto myself; that where
I am, there ye may be also"? (John 14:2-3).

Jesus was addressing only the apostles: "By this
shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye
have love one to another" (John 13:35).

Does it matter a lot that Jesus was addressing John
14:2-3 only to the apostles? Or does it not matter
at all in regard to John 14:2-3's full application
to the Church?

Whom was Jesus addressing when He said: "Then shall
they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill
you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my
name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and
shall betray one another, and shall hate one
another. And many false prophets shall rise, and
shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall
abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that
shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved"?
(Matthew 24:9-13).

Jesus was addressing only the apostles: "And as he
sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto
him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these
things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming,
and of the end of the world?" (Matthew 24:3).

Does it matter a lot that Jesus was addressing
Matthew 24:9-13 only to the apostles? Or does it not
matter at all in regard to Matthew 24:9-13's full
application to the Church?

If we in the Church gladly accept verses such as John
3:16, and John 14:6, and John 14:2-3 as having full
application to the Church, even though in these
verses Jesus was addressing only certain individuals
before the Church even existed, then on what
consistent grounds can we turn around and in good
conscience throw out Matthew 24:9-13 as having no
application to the Church, simply because it was
likewise addressing only certain individuals before
the Church even existed?

Faith_Warrior said in post #72:
He came to Israel first, His words were for them
first, addressed to them. First to Israel, then to
the gentiles later (the mystery), not at the same
time

That's right, Jesus came to Israel first (Matthew
15:24, Romans 15:8), just as everything that comes
from God has to go to the Jews first (Romans 1:16,
2:9-10). But as you point out, He later would also
come to the Gentiles (John 10:16), just as was
foretold in the Old Testament (Isaiah 49:6, Acts
26:22-23).

So what Jesus taught in the Gospels first to the
Jews, was to be later taught to the Gentiles as well
(Matthew 28:19-20). So just as verses such as John
3:16, and John 14:6, and John 14:2-3 are all now
fully applicable to the Church, so Matthew 24:9-13 is
now fully applicable to the Church.

But where would one get the idea that the Gospels
can't be preached to Jews and Gentiles at the same
time? Aren't the Gospels supposed to be preached to
everyone (Matthew 28:19-20), Jews and Gentiles
alike? (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Isn't that
why there have been Jews who have been saved since
the early Church and down through history until this
day? Isn't that why today the Church has "Jews for
Jesus", missionaries to the Jews, as well as
missionaries to Gentile people?

Faith_Warrior said in post #72:
Matthew is definitely the Gospel book tailored for
Israel, by far.

If Matthew were originally tailored for Jewish
readers, how would that affect its application to the
Church? Weren't all of the Gospels, all of the things
that Jesus taught, first for the Jews? And haven't we
seen that this makes no difference at all regarding
the full application of various passages in the
Gospels to the Church?

Are we in the Church to throw out the Lord's Prayer
(Matthew 6:9-13), and the Sermon on the Mount
(Matthew chapters 5-7), and the universal baptism and
teaching command of Matthew 28:19-20, as inapplicable
to the Church, simply because they were taught first
to the Jews? If not, if everyone in the Church would
agree that that would be completely unwarranted,
even silly, then on what consistent grounds can we
turn around and in good conscience throw out Matthew
24 (Mark 13, Luke 21) as inapplicable to the Church
simply because it was taught first to the Jews?

And what are we in the Church to do with the book of
Revelation? Wasn't that entire book, from beginning
to end, including the detailed tribulation chapters
of 6-18, addressed to the Church? (Revelation 1:1,
22:16). What excuse would people use to throw out
Revelation as inapplicable to the Church? What would
they come up with so that they can pretend that
verses such as Revelation 13:10 and 14:12-13 don't
apply to the Church?

Faith_Warrior said in post #72:
I just don't dig spiritualizing meanings of the text,
it makes for considerable confusion through the whole
of scripture when scripture is suppose to be cohesive
and literal in meaning.

How would the text of Matthew 24 (Mark 13, Luke 21)
and Revelation chapters 6-18 have to be spiritualized
to say that they have full application to the Church?
Were John 3:16, and John 14:6, and John 14:2-3, and
Matthew 6:9-13, and Matthew 28:19-20 spiritualized by
saying that they have full application to the Church?
If not, then why can't Matthew 24 (Mark 13, Luke 21)
and Revelation chapters 6-18 remain just as cohesive
and literal as they are, and still have full
application to the Church?

 

[RSD]

Well hopefully this belongs here but what some people consider the mark of the beast is a card or a chip that is placed in your right arm or head that has all your information on it. And not to long ago I was tricked into signing my old health card away to a new one. I just found out that I will be getting a "smart card" which stores vast amounts of information such as all my birth info/ drivers information/ health/social insurance number any thing and everything they would want to know about me. And if that isn't it then about 6 - 7 weeks ago I noticed that 3 red dots about .5 cm apart each were on my right bicep. Either way I know the mark is here, the N.W.O is far much further ahead then people even know. But everything is going exactly as it should be as stated in the bible. God will save those he has promised to deliver to safety. Just never lose faith in your true God , Jesus Christ. He is always with us.

On a side note, I just read the hyper link that was given now and seen the smart card part.

 

[Psalms34]

Whom was Jesus addressing when He said: "For God so
loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life"? (John 3:16).

He was addressing only Nicodemus: "Nicodemus answered
and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus
answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of
Israel, and knowest not these things?" (John 3:9-10).

Does it matter a lot that Jesus was addressing John
3:16 only to Nicodemus? Or does it not matter at all
in regard to John 3:16's full application to the
Church?

How do you get “John 3:16 is addressing the Church”? Where does it say to the Church there?
What of the believing Jews, those that came before the incarnation of Christ Jesus? They were looking forward to the coming of the Lord, looking forward to the cross, does this not address them too? Does Moses perish? Does the tree become chopped down and another planted in its place rather than a grafting of a section which is supported by the existing tree but not of it? To the "Church", it is not.

Too bad I usually skip most of your post, if I had time I could probably address many points. But I don't like doing that, usually the skeptic will pick the weakest argument of the list. Your posts are like the energizer bunny... should learn to capsulate.

 

[Bible2]

RSD said in post #74:
... the mark is here

Actually, the mark of Revelation 13:16-17 won't come
until the 3 1/2 year reign of the Antichrist
(Revelation 13:4-18).

What is already here is the gematrial number of the
name of the man who will be the Antichrist, which
number is 666 (Revelation 13:17-18).

666 is already here in the disguised form of WWW,
for W is the transliteration of the sixth letter of
the ancient Hebrew alphabet, which stood for the
number 6. So a disguised form of "666" has already
been placed at the beginning of the URL of many
websites, even those of churches.

666 is also already here in the disguised form of the
"control bars" on many UPC codes, where the two thin
black lines at the start, middle, and end of the
codes also stand for the number 6. So a disguised
form of "666" has already been placed on many things
that we buy.

During the reign of the Antichrist, people won't be
able to buy things unless they have on their hand or
forehead the mark of the Antichrist, or his name, or
the gematrial number of his name, 666 (Revelation
13:17-18).

The 666 which will be placed on people who want to
buy things could be just as disguised as the 666
which has been placed at the beginning of the URL of
many websites where we buy things, and just as
disguised as the 666 which has been placed on many of
the things which we buy. The 666 which will be placed
on people who want to buy things could look like 777,
for the sixth letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet,
which stood for the number 6, looks like the number
7.

RSD said in post #74:
... the N.W.O is far much further ahead then people
even know

If by the N.W.O. you mean the reign of the
Antichrist, that hasn't started yet, for first the
Orthodox Jews have to build a temple in Jerusalem and
offer Mosaic animal sacrifices before it. Then the
Antichrist has to make a seven-year treaty with the
Orthodox Jews permitting them to continue to offer
sacrifices before their temple for seven years. Then,
in the midst of those seven years, the Antichrist has
to break the treaty, stop the sacrifices, and commit
the abomination of desolation (Daniel 9:27, 11:31,
Matthew 24:15), which is when he will sit in the
temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4,
Daniel 11:36). It is from this point that his 3 1/2
year reign will begin (Revelation 13:4-18), and the
mark of Revelation 13:16-17 will be instituted.

RSD said in post #74:
God will save those he has promised to deliver to
safety

Note that God hasn't promised that He will deliver
the entire Church to safety during the reign of the
Antichrist. When the Church sees the abomination of
desolation (Matthew 24:15), some in the Church will
flee into well-stocked hiding places they will have
built beforehand in the mountains (cf. Matthew
24:16), in wilderness-places (Revelation 12:6) around
the world; and they will be protected on the earth
during the 3 1/2 year reign of the Antichrist
(Revelation 12:14-17).

But others in the Church will not flee into hiding
places when they see the abomination of desolation,
and so they will be overcome by the Antichrist
(Revelation 13:7-10), and many in the Church will be
killed (Revelation 14:12-13). Many in the Church will
be beheaded for preaching Jesus and His Word, and for
refusing to worship the Antichrist and his image, and
refusing to take the mark (Revelation 20:4-6).

RSD said in post #74:
Just never lose faith in your true God, Jesus Christ.
He is always with us.

Amen. Jesus our God (John 20:28) is always with us,
even to the end of the world (Matthew 28:20). But
many in the Church will still lose faith in Him in
the future (1 Timothy 4:1), especially when they find
themselves being persecuted and killed during the
coming tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13); they will be
"offended" at God that He would let them suffer
(Matthew 13:20-21, Isaiah 8:21-22) in the tribulation
instead of rapturing them out beforehand.

But God never promised us that He would rapture us
out before the tribulation. He told us the opposite;
that He will rapture us after the tribulation
(Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's
why we'll still be here during the tribulation
(Revelation 13:10). We will need to be patient and
not lose faith during the reign of the Antichrist
(Revelation 14:12-13), knowing that his days are
numbered, and that Jesus' coming (parousia) to
gather us together to Himself will destroy the
Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8).

 

[Bible2]

Faith_Warrior asked in post #75:
How do you get "John 3:16 is addressing the Church"?

Note that it wasn't said that John 3:16 was
addressing the Church, but that John 3:16 was only
addressing Nicodemus (John 3:9-10); but that that
didn't matter in regard to John 3:16 still being
fully applicable to the Church, just as who Matthew
24:9-13 was addressed to (the apostles, Matthew 24:3)
didn't matter in regard to Matthew 24:9-13 still
being fully applicable to the Church.

Faith_Warrior asked in post #75:
[Re: John 3:16]
What of the believing Jews, those that came before
the incarnation of Christ Jesus? They were looking
forward to the coming of the Lord, looking forward to
the cross, does this not address them too?

Actually, no, John 3:16 wasn't addressing all of the
(former) Old Testament saints, only Nicodemus; but
John 3:16 is still fully applicable to all of the
(former) Old Testament saints because they all died
in faith (Hebrews 11:13), and after His resurrection
Jesus went down into Hades and preached the
fulfillment of the New Covenant Gospel to all of
their spirits (1 Peter 4:6, 3:19) and then drew their
spirits up into heaven to be with Him (Ephesians
4:8-9) and to become joined to the Church in heaven
(Hebrews 12:22-23). Now anyone, Jew or Gentile, who
has the one faith of Jesus becomes part of the one
body of Christ, the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

The Church is based on the New Covenant
(2 Corinthians 3:6) instituted on the Cross by Jesus
(Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:16), and the New Covenant
was made with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31). So the Church
is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12).

Faith_Warrior asked in post #75:
Does Moses perish?

No, for Michael the archangel recovered Moses' dead
body from Satan (Jude 1:9), and Michael must have
taken Moses' body into heaven where God resuscitated
it, for Moses was alive and well when he came down
from heaven to appear with Jesus at the
transfiguration (Matthew 17:3). Elijah was likewise
alive and well when he came down from heaven to
appear with Jesus at the transfiguration, for Elijah
had been taken alive into heaven (2 Kings 2:11).
Moses and Elijah are now esteemed members of the
Church in heaven.

Faith_Warrior asked in post #75:
Does the tree become chopped down and another planted
in its place rather than a grafting of a section
which is supported by the existing tree but not of
it? To the "Church", it is not.

The tree of Israel hasn't been chopped down, and no
other tree has been planted in its place. But neither
are those branches grafted into it not of it, in the
sense of not being considered a part of that tree,
for who would say that a branch grafted into a tree
and thriving on it is no part of that tree?

Just as Jewish branches in the tree of Israel are cut
off from Israel because of unbelief in Jesus (Romans
11:20), and are grafted back into Israel if they
come into belief in Jesus (Romans 11:23-24), so
Gentile branches are grafted into Israel when they
come into belief in Jesus (Romans 11:17).

Note that Paul nowhere says that these Gentiles
grafted into Israel are no part of Israel, for not
only is every Jew in the Church Israel (Romans 11:1),
every Gentile in the Church has been made a
fellowcitizen of Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19); every
Gentile in the Church has been made, through Christ,
the very seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:16,29),
so that every Gentile in the Church will inherit,
along with every Jew in the Church, all of the
promises made to Israel (Galatians 3:29, Ephesians
3:6).

And because the tree of Israel with all of its
branches now includes all believing Jews (Romans
11:1) and all believing Gentiles (Romans 11:17), it
is now the same as the vine or body of Christ with
all of its branches (John 15:5-6), which is the
Church; for the Church is all believing Jews and all
believing Gentiles (1 Corinthians 12:13), everyone
who has the one faith of Jesus (Ephesians 4:4-5).
So the Church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12).

 

[zeke37]

not sure this thread is headed, but I wanted to point out that the mark is not physical...it is not a chip or tattoo....

it is what you think and what you do, just as it is with God's seal....

Ex13....


it is not a forced thing...

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 said in post #78:
... the mark is not physical...it is not a chip or
tattoo

In Revelation 13:16-18, the original Greek word
translated as "mark" is translated as "graven" in
Acts 17:29, which refers to physical carving. The
mark could be carved into the hand or forehead with a
knife, deep enough to leave an indelible scar.

Revelation 13:16-18 could mean that, during the reign
of the Antichrist, people who want to be able to buy
things will be able to choose not only whether they
want the mark carved in their hand or forehead, but
also whether they want the name of the Antichrist or
the gematrial number of his name, 666, carved on
them.

zeke37 said in post #78:
... it is what you think and what you do, just as it
is with God's seal.... Ex13....

While the mark could be a physical scar, at the same
time one's willingness to receive the mark could show
that one thinks that the Antichrist is God (as he
will claim to be, 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and that one
worships the Antichrist and his image (Revelation
14:9) and worships the dragon Lucifer who will be
giving the Antichrist his power (Revelation 13:4;
2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Regarding your reference to Exodus 13, the Orthodox
Jews have interpreted Exodus 13:9,16 (and Deuteronomy
6:8) literally, and so they have phylacteries, little
boxes containing scriptures which they tie to their
forehead and hand, as a token of their total devotion
to God's Word. The mark of the Antichrist could be an
evil copy of this idea, whereby people will have the
Antichrist's name or number carved on their forehead
or hand to show their total devotion to the
Antichrist.

People having the name of the Antichrist carved into
their foreheads could also be an evil copy of the
idea of Revelation 14:1 and Revelation 22:4, where
the followers of Jesus will have the name of God
written on their foreheads (cf. Revelation 3:12).

zeke37 said in post #78:
... it is not a forced thing

The mark of the Antichrist will be forced insofar as
people won't be able to buy anything unless they have
the mark (Revelation 13:17). And even if one refuses
the mark and gets someone else with the mark to buy
one's food, one still won't be able to avoid the
worship of the image of the Antichrist, insofar as
anyone who refuses to worship his image will be
killed (Revelation 13:15), by being beheaded
(Revelation 20:4).

All those who worship the Antichrist and his image,
and receive his mark on their forehead or on their
hand, will be tormented with fire and brimstone for
ever and ever (Revelation 14:9-11). Knowing this will
help those in the Church to keep the faith during the
reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 14:12), and to be
willing to be killed (Revelation 14:13) rather than
worship him or his image, or receive his mark; for
the faithful death of those in the Church will be no
loss for them, but even gain (Philippians 1:21), as
their spirits will go into heaven to be with Jesus
(Philippians 1:23; 2 Corinthians 5:8).

 

[IisJustMe]

not sure this thread is headed, but I wanted to point out that the mark is not physical...it is not a chip or tattoo.... it is what you think and what you do, just as it is with God's seal....

Can't agree with you there. The Greek word charagma is the word translated "mark," and it is always a physical thing, be it an imprinted stamp, a brand on livestock, or a graven image or idol. The mark is definitely physical in nature. The mark cannot be a thought process, because even saved people have ungodly thoughts, nor can it be evidenced in action, as saved people also do ungodly things.

Ex13.... it is not a forced thing...

Not applicable. The Hebrew word 'owth used in Exodus 13:9 could mean either a physical sign, or simply proof of a fact, intangible but nonetheless a "sign." Eating the passover was a "sign in the hand" as stated in the verse, a tangible reminder. But "forehead" as many translations render beyn 'ayin is more accurately translated "mind's eye." The word beyn is "between, among, in the midst of" and the word 'ayin is "eye" but is commonly usd in the context of spiritual and mental faculties.