Credit and the poor

[dcalling]

It's a disgrace that there's even such a thing as "working poor", i.e. people who work full-time, and yet can hardly afford the bare necessities of life.

Any job that pays so little is basically an act of theft conducted by the employer, who steals his employees labour power without sufficient recompensation. And the worst part: society even REWARDS such ruthlessness by subsidizing such workplaces, letting the community pay for food stamps etc. to keep the victims afloat.

Of course, we cannot let people starve - but we totally should but an end to such exploitation.

The US working poor is much better off than any other poor in the world. When I working as a waiter, I easily made about $3000 in 3 month. The exchange students here can work in resturants/other low paying jobs and be a rich man going back to their country.

 

[dcalling]

Minimum wage was suppose to fix this, but, minimum wage hasn't been keeping in up with inflation.

I used to think this is a good idea, then found out if you raise min wage too high, the employers will just make one guy do more work because he can't afford to hire more.

Just recently I wanted to fix a light fixture in my home, and after get quotes from several contractors, I eventually decided to do that myself.... The restaurant I used to work in can't afford US workers, so they have people who can't speak english working at the back, and the ones who can work as waiters/waitresses (many are illegals). I know the owner, they are not rich, and if they can't find cheap labor, they do that themselves.

Economy is a very strange thing. The US actually had a good system that have far less people go hungry (actually most are obese, even the poor). In so many years of in US working with mostly poor people, I never see poor people go hungry (I do see middle class females go hungry to try to loss fat).

 

[AskTheFamily]

I used to think this is a good idea, then found out if you raise min wage too high, the employers will just make one guy do more work because he can't afford to hire more.

Just recently I wanted to fix a light fixture in my home, and after get quotes from several contractors, I eventually decided to do that myself.... The restaurant I used to work in can't afford US workers, so they have people who can't speak english working at the back, and the ones who can work as waiters/waitresses (many are illegals). I know the owner, they are not rich, and if they can't find cheap labor, they do that themselves.

Economy is a very strange thing. The US actually had a good system that have far less people go hungry (actually most are obese, even the poor). In so many years of in US working with mostly poor people, I never see poor people go hungry (I do see middle class females go hungry to try to loss fat).

If you don't raise minimum wage on par with inflation, it defeats the original purpose of the minimum wage. Minimum wage ensures people get enough to make a living - while - having none- you can get practically slave labor (like you do in other countries around the world).

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

The US working poor is much better off than any other poor in the world.

Irrelevant. They are needlessly maltreated and exploited nonetheless.
When people finance their second yacht by paying their employees so little that they can hardly pay the rent (let alone hope to escape their plight by gaining a higher education etc.), something's very, VERY wrong.

 

[smaneck]

The US working poor is much better off than any other poor in the world. When I working as a waiter, I easily made about $3000 in 3 month. The exchange students here can work in resturants/other low paying jobs and be a rich man going back to their country.

$12,000 a year is considered above the poverty line in America. Waiters are not necessarily poor. With tips they often make good money.

 

[smaneck]

I used to think this is a good idea, then found out if you raise min wage too high, the employers will just make one guy do more work because he can't afford to hire more.

In that case the one guy will get more hours enabling him to qualify for health benefits.

Just recently I wanted to fix a light fixture in my home, and after get quotes from several contractors, I eventually decided to do that myself....

Those contractors obviously were charging you well above minimum wage. The workers weren't given a fraction of what he charged. I hire people in my own neighborhood to do that kind of work and I pay them $15 an house, which is what I consider a living wage.

Economy is a very strange thing. The US actually had a good system that have far less people go hungry (actually most are obese, even the poor).

*Especially* the poor are obese but that's not because they are gluttonous. Cheap food is fattening food and they can't afford what's more nutritious. They don't go hungry but they are malnourished.

But lack of food is not the primary problem with the poor, it is lack of hope.

 

[dlamberth]

I used to think this is a good idea, then found out if you raise min wage too high, the employers will just make one guy do more work because he can't afford to hire more.

Just the opposite happens. When employees have more money in their pockets they will spend it, creating demand which creates more jobs. That's why Henry Ford paid his employees so well. He wanted them to have enough cash to buy his cars, which created wealth for Ford and jobs for the working class who would buy even more of his cars.

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[dlamberth]

But lack of food is not the primary problem with the poor, it is lack of hope.

Exactly!!!

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[dlamberth]

It's a disgrace that there's even such a thing as "working poor", ...

That's especially true with how much money there is in the world, most of which is held in the hands of a very few people.

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[dcalling]

Irrelevant. They are needlessly maltreated and exploited nonetheless.

That is totally against logic. So you believe system A where there are wealth spread but everyone is doing better than system B, where everyone is getting very little, that B is better than A?

When people finance their second yacht by paying their employees so little that they can hardly pay the rent (let alone hope to escape their plight by gaining a higher education etc.), something's very, VERY wrong.

that is true, however that is not what happened in US. Look at Pres. Obama, he campained on hope and change and the result of his policies only make things worse. Economy is a very complex thing that sometimes seemingly straight forward changes doesn't do what as intended. That is why all the communist countries failed so badly, where they try to make every body got the same, the end result is everyone gets very little.

 

[gord44]

Yay capitalism.

 

[smaneck]

that is true, however that is not what happened in US. Look at Pres. Obama, he campained on hope and change and the result of his policies only make things worse.

It wasn't his policies that made things worse, it was the do-nothing Congress that refused to implement them.

Besides, I'm not persuaded things are worse. I'm financially much better off than I was during the early part of Bush Recession.

 

[dcalling]

It wasn't his policies that made things worse, it was the do-nothing Congress that refused to implement them.

Besides, I'm not persuaded things are worse. I'm financially much better off than I was during the early part of Bush Recession.

that congress was initially his fully.

And we are not talking about if you are doing better, remember the topic is about poor and the wealth spread?

 

[dlamberth]

that congress was initially his fully.

And a lot got done in those 2 years. After that gridlock happened and it got a lot harder to get things done.

.

 

[smaneck]

that congress was initially his fully.

Not hardly. Blue Dog Democrats fought him tooth and nail. He got a few things done, but not like he should have.

And we are not talking about if you are doing better, remember the topic is about poor and the wealth spread?

Obama didn't widen that gap.

 

[dcalling]

Not hardly. Blue Dog Democrats fought him tooth and nail. He got a few things done, but not like he should have.

Obama didn't widen that gap.

See Fed: Gap Between Rich, Poor Americans Widened During Recovery - WSJ

The Black-White Wealth Gap Has Widened Under Obama's Presidency - Investors.com

and in his own words (after 6 years in office)
Obama calls widening wealth gap ?defining challenge of our time' - NY Daily News

 

[smaneck]

See Fed: Gap Between Rich, Poor Americans Widened During Recovery - WSJ

The Black-White Wealth Gap Has Widened Under Obama's Presidency - Investors.com

and in his own words (after 6 years in office)
Obama calls widening wealth gap ?defining challenge of our time' - NY Daily News

And your proof that Obama had anything to do with that widening gap is what?

 

[dcalling]

And your proof that Obama had anything to do with that widening gap is what?

You said "Obama didn't widen that gap", I am simplying showing the facts.

I was much more liberal than you, coming into this country with communist ideologies. But I learned to trust the facts instead of feelings. The facts can be discomforting. It would be much simpler if we can get everyone's life better by getting ride of the greedy capitalists, but the truth is if we did that everyone will be living in the slumps.

 

[smaneck]

You said "Obama didn't widen that gap", I am simplying showing the facts.

You showed me no facts that indicated that Obama widened the gap. All you showed is that it got wider during his presidency. The gap between rich and poor always widens during a recession.

I was much more liberal than you, coming into this country with communist ideologies. But I learned to trust the facts instead of feelings.

I've yet to see any indication you have much acquaintance with "facts." For instance, you present a luvy version of Christianity with almost no grounding in scripture whatsoever.

It would be much simpler if we can get everyone's life better by getting ride of the greedy capitalists, but the truth is if we did that everyone will be living in the slumps.

Actually I have no problem with capitalism. In fact I'd like to see more of the poor become capitalists (instead of just the drug dealers.) To do that they need more opportunities to own the means of production.

 

[dcalling]

You showed me no facts that indicated that Obama widened the gap. All you showed is that it got wider during his presidency. The gap between rich and poor always widens during a recession.

You just said you feel better off now. Just kidding.

Pres Bush also was in a recession.
Income Inequality Worse Under Obama Than George W. Bush

I've yet to see any indication you have much acquaintance with "facts." For instance, you present a luvy version of Christianity with almost no grounding in scripture whatsoever.

And I repeatly asked for evidences and none was provided except I was called ignorant.

Actually I have no problem with capitalism. In fact I'd like to see more of the poor become capitalists (instead of just the drug dealers.) To do that they need more opportunities to own the means of production.

Me too! We are actually not as different as we thought. I saw many people just hate capitalist with a passion without reason.