Creationists: can you explain post-Flood repopulation?

[PsychoSarah]

Evidence appeals to the brain, which is part of the body, and can only be satisfied by empirical data.

Atheism & Agnosticism are spiritual problems, and can only be satisfied by Jesus Christ.

You do know agnosticism is not a religion, right? It is just a knowledge statement; an agnostic doesn't claim to have absolute certainty or proof of their position being accurate. Doubt is not a disease.

 

[AV1611VET]

You do know agnosticism is not a religion, right?

If Agnosticism resists the Bible, which is the cure for Agnosticism, then Agnosticism is a religion.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is a very interesting question that ties into the blessing of Abraham Christians are suppose to inherit, the most descendants. The most descendants award goes to the a chines or Asian in general if you add India. As a world population they have more than 2/3s, so they must have started after the flood or were they there all along, just descendants of CHainA in the land of wandering! GOD must love them so much that Buddhism or Hinduism is God's true religion. Correct me if I'm wrong. Please.

The descendants of Israel were to "multiply greatly" and, "become a multitude in the earth" and, "as numerous as the sand of the sea", and perhaps did outnumber other nations at the height of their greatness. But that was back then, and way before Christianity. The northern kingdom was destroyed in 721 B.C., the southern kingdom in 585 B.C.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If Agnosticism resists the Bible, then Agnosticism is a religion.

it doesn't though. One can be agnostic and Christian.

 

[AV1611VET]

it doesn't though. One can be agnostic and Christian.

I disagree -- on both counts.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I disagree -- on both counts.

Feel free to have that opinion, but don't you have plenty of doubt about things, even if you wouldn't consider beliefs to be touched by it?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You know as well as I do your beliefs have nothing to do with evidence.
You didn't need evidence to make you believe so no amount of evidence will make you stop believing.
You are where you are {religion wise} because it's where you want to be.

Not so. If I saw positive evidence for evolution I would, in all honesty, have to accept it (but even then it would be God-directed). Complete organisms that show no evidence of changing indicate creation, not evolution. Somewhere in the fossil record there must be evidence of organisms in the midst of change, else special creation is the only logical interpretation.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Not so. If I saw positive evidence for evolution I would, in all honesty, have to accept it (but even then it would be God-directed). Complete organisms that show no evidence of changing indicate creation, not evolution. Somewhere in the fossil record there must be evidence of organisms in the midst of change, else special creation is the only logical interpretation.

Unless you are expecting some shape-shifter stuff, there are fossils like that.

 

[AV1611VET]

Feel free to have that opinion, but don't you have plenty of doubt about things, even if you wouldn't consider beliefs to be touched by it?

Yes, I have doubts.

But not these kinds:

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

What does any of the above have to do with Post-Flood population growth?

I was enjoying the explanations.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I did another population growth calculation using the Israelites in Egypt, the 400 years of captivity, and a growth rate of three children per couple, with a reproductive period of thirty years (three children born per couple in the ten year reproductive period between ages 20 and 30).

Not counting Joseph there were 11 couples to start with.

Years

1- 22 people (if the Israelites didn't bring any children from Canaan)
30- 33
60- 99
90- 297
120-891
150-2,673
180-8,019
210-24,057
240-72,171
270-216,513
300-649,539 I'm guessing it was about this time the Egyptians began to get nervous.
330-1,948,617
360-5,845,851
390-17,537,553

Based on how many came out of Egypt even this number is way too high, but demonstrates that even a modest reproductive rate adds up over time to a lot of people.

The bible states that 600,000 adult men along with their families came out, therefore, 600,000 adult men+600,000 wives+1,800,000 children=3,000,000 total. Many believe that Israel numbered between 3 and 5 million at the time of the exodus, which is a very reasonable number given the entire circumstance of their sojourn in Egypt and the fertile land of Goshen (where they actually lived and prospered).

 

[dad]

I did another population growth model using the Israelites in Egypt, the 400 years of captivity, and a growth rate of three children per couple, with a reproductive period of thirty years (three children born per couple in the ten year reproductive period between ages 20 and 30).

Not counting Joseph there were 11 couples to start with.

Years

1- 22 people (if the Israelites didn't bring any children from Canaan)
30- 33
60- 99
90- 297
120-891
150-2,673
180-8,019
210-24,057
240-72,171
270-216,513
300-649,539 I'm guessing it was about this time the Egyptians began to get nervous.
330-1,948,617
360-5,845,851
390-17,537,553

Based on how many came out of Egypt even this number is way too high, but demonstrates that even a modest reproductive rate adds up over time to a lot of people.

600,000 adult men+600,000 wives+1,800,000 children=3,000,000 total. Most believers believe that Israel numbered between 3 and 5 million at the time of the exodus, which is a very reasonable number given the entire circumstance of their sojourn in Egypt and the fertile land of Goshen (where they actually lived and prospered).

Even the Egyptians noted the 'vigor' with which the Hebrew women gave birth.

They say there was a population spike after a black out in New York some years ago. The slaves in Egypt had little else to do.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

I did another population growth calculation using the Israelites in Egypt, the 400 years of captivity, and a growth rate of three children per couple, with a reproductive period of thirty years (three children born per couple in the ten year reproductive period between ages 20 and 30).

Not counting Joseph there were 11 couples to start with.

Years

1- 22 people (if the Israelites didn't bring any children from Canaan)
30- 33
60- 99
90- 297
120-891
150-2,673
180-8,019
210-24,057
240-72,171
270-216,513
300-649,539 I'm guessing it was about this time the Egyptians began to get nervous.
330-1,948,617
360-5,845,851
390-17,537,553

Based on how many came out of Egypt even this number is way too high, but demonstrates that even a modest reproductive rate adds up over time to a lot of people.

The bible states that 600,000 adult men along with their families came out, therefore, 600,000 adult men+600,000 wives+1,800,000 children=3,000,000 total. Many believe that Israel numbered between 3 and 5 million at the time of the exodus, which is a very reasonable number given the entire circumstance of their sojourn in Egypt and the fertile land of Goshen (where they actually lived and prospered).

Thanks for getting back on topic.

People in those times did not have hospitals or modern medicine. Death in the first year of life was extremely common. If people were only having three children per couple, they would have died out. The average life span was about 20 years.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Thanks for getting back on topic.

People in those times did not have hospitals or modern medicine. Death in the first year of life was extremely common. If people were only having three children per couple, they would have died out. The average life span was about 20 years.

Ouch, people died young, but 20 years is cutting it on the low side.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Ouch, people died young, but 20 years is cutting it on the low side.

I checked it out when this thread started, there was consensus on a number of sites (for 3000-4000 bc, which I think is the applicable time frame). Here is one site: DHO: Health Science

If you find more reliable sites with different numbers, could you please link? Thanks in advance.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Thanks for getting back on topic.

People in those times did not have hospitals or modern medicine. Death in the first year of life was extremely common. If people were only having three children per couple, they would have died out. The average life span was about 20 years.

The Egyptians noted the health of the Hebrew women regarding childbirth. The number of men was 600,000. Are we to assume they had no wives, children, or living parents? Even if those men only had wives, and they were both 20 years old that would be 1,200,000 Israelites that came out. However the story includes children,

"And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children." Exodus 12:37

 

[PsychoSarah]

I checked it out when this thread started, there was consensus on a number of sites (for 3000-4000 bc, which I think is the applicable time frame). Here is one site: DHO: Health Science

If you find more reliable sites with different numbers, could you please link? Thanks in advance.

Ah, here we go, you looked at the one that comes BEFORE people kept accurate health records. 3000 BC-300BC has the range at 20-30 years and is the first range based on actual records.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The Egyptians noted the health of the Hebrew women regarding childbirth. The number of men was 600,000. Are we to assume they had no wives, children, or living parents? Even if those men only had wives, and they were both 20 years old that would be 1,200,000 Israelites that came out. However the story includes children,

"And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children." Exodus 12:37

Personally, I think the numbers in the bible are often exaggerated. I have found that dropping one or two of the 0's tends to make a reasonable number for the ones in the hundreds and up.

After all, with the tools of the past that many people would not be capable of sustaining themselves in such a small area. Hmm, yup, 6 thousand sounds plausible. That would still have been a ton of people for the time period, and certainly astounding to see, but 600 thousand? Back then? No.

 

[AV1611VET]

People in those times did not have hospitals or modern medicine.

But they did have God.

Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Genesis 22:17a That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore;

Genesis 24:60 And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.

Genesis 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven,

Exodus 1:19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have found that dropping one or two of the 0's tends to make a reasonable number for the ones in the hundreds and up.

This confirms what I've said here many times.

Unbelievers will move the decimal place as needed to make their theories stick.

Usually I say that with respect to a discussion on deep time, but I'm sure if they can move the decimal place with respect to time, they can move it with respect to other things as well.