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Regardless of whether you accept it or not is besides the point. It's a question of whether you can accurately represent it.
Regardless of whether you accept it or not is besides the point. It's a question of whether you can accurately represent it.
What else did you have? (hint - no "evolution fertilizer" as the title of the thread states)
Stanley Miller: "“As long as you have those basic chemicals and a reducing atmosphere, you have everything you need. People often say maybe some of the special compounds came in from space, but they never say which ones."
So, here we apparently have Miller himself saying only "basic chemicals and a reducing atmosphere" are needed - no mention of "lifeless rock".Stanley Miller: "“As long as you have those basic chemicals and a reducing atmosphere, you have everything you need."
That makes sense - he's quoted (by BobRyan himself) as saying all that's needed is, "basic chemicals and a reducing atmosphere".It's worth noting the "lifeless rock" quote comes from an interview question, not Stanley Miller himself.
prove it - since even you admit I have not described any process.
A. Atheist claims of the form "rocks can do whatever they want when coming up with a horse over time"
"lifeless rock"
no joke. Is this what you were having a hard time with?
Why is that creationists and the people who are generally anti-science always go with the idea that the words of one scientist, no matter when they are from, are taken as the Gospel?
I did. It still in no way supports your representation that abiogenesis/evolution involves "rocks [doing] whatever they want when coming up with a horse over time".
The only reference to a "rock" in that entire discussion is from an interviewer's question, not even Stanley Miller. And the context is quite clear it's simply a reference to the planet (Earth) itself. It's not referring to literal rocks in the context of abiogenesis.
It's also odd that you're quoting an interview from 25 years ago and seem to be putting full stock of your arguments/characterizations in it.
I asked you before and I'll you again, what have you actually read in terms of modern abiogenesis research? Have you read anything outside of the Urey-Miller experiment and/or random interviews on the same?
It's worth pointing out that panspermia (life arriving from elsewhere in the universe) is a perfectly valid hypothesis - we already know that life can survive a considerable time exposed in space, and that life can also be found deep inside rocks, so it's conceivable that simple extraterrestrial life could have survived in a meteorite to seed evolution on Earth.
It's not a mainstream hypothesis because the timescale involved in travel from another star system would almost certainly be far too long for DNA or RNA to survive intact. It would be far more likely to survive a trip from Mars on one of the many meteorites that have come over, but that still begs the question of how it arose in the first place.
But there is a mainstream hypothesis involving the deposition of complex organics (the 'building blocks' of life) from space, where they (and water) appear in abundance. But, AIUI, these complex organics could also have been generated on Earth, so such material from space would only be significant when falling in areas where conditions were not suitable for the native assembly of complex organics.
I'll give you one that 'exists' (from my Origin of Life - Hot Springs thread):no such process exists - it is just a story with a lot of "speculation".
Now if you want to correct this perception, then by all means provide a proper description of the abiogenesis/evolution process
I'll give you one that 'exists' (from my Origin of Life - Hot Springs thread):
--proposes that protocells aggregating into a hydrogel in the intermediate moist phase of wet-dry cycles represent a primitive progenote system. Progenote populations can undergo selection and distribution, construct niches in new environments, and enable a sharing network effect that can collectively evolve them into the first microbial communities;
...
proposes future testing of the hypothesis;
Then it is not a 'story' then .. So you can now cease using that term and use the term you just agreed with, ie: its 'an hypothesis'.I agree with that part
no such process exists - it is just a story with a lot of "speculation".
Stanley Miller: "“As long as you have those basic chemicals and a reducing atmosphere, you have everything you need. People often say maybe some of the special compounds came in from space, but they never say which ones."
They may not have said which compounds in Miller's time, but we now know the composition of a large number of extraterrestrial organic compounds that could come from space and could be used in abiogenesis.Stanley Miller: "“As long as you have those basic chemicals and a reducing atmosphere, you have everything you need. People often say maybe some of the special compounds came in from space, but they never say which ones."
They may not have said which compounds in Miller's time
, but we now know the composition of a large number of extraterrestrial organic compounds that could come from space and could be used in abiogenesis.
The consensus seems to be that they're not essential, they could be made on Earth
You're just deflecting from the point of my post. Which is that you said: "rocks [doing] whatever they want when coming up with a horse over time",
which is a gross misrepresentation
Your continued reference to that Miller interview isn't supporting you here, since the "lifeless rock" bit didn't even come from Miller. .
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