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Creationists and atheists agree there is no such thing as evolution primer-fertilizer

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by BobRyan, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Creationists and atheists all agree that at one time the earth was a barren planet with absolutely no life on it - - and of course today it does have life on it.

    Creationists will say that an infinitely capable Creator created all life on land in a single evening-and-morning on day six of creation week.

    Atheists will claim rocks alone did all that over billions of years rocks-to-horse etc as the two end points (for example)

    So then "some differences" exist at that point but not on the starting condition.

    ================================ agreement #2.

    But we also agree that there is no such thing as "evolution primer-fertilizer" that one could add tot rocks to make them pop-out life or that one could add to prokaryote cultures to make them pop-out eukaryotes.

    Stanley Miller: " People often say maybe some of the special compounds came in from space, but they never say which ones. If you can make these chemicals in the conditions of cosmic dust or a meteorite, I presume you could also make them on the Earth. I think the idea that you need some special unnamed compound from space is hard to support."

    But "if there were" such a thing and it was reliable then any time you "add evolution primer" to the culture dish and the prokaryotes did not pop-out eukaryotes you could call that a "fail" of the primer.

    And what is more - any time you did not intentionally add the "evolution fertilizer" but the prokaryotes did pop-out eukaryotes over time you might suppose that the experiment was "contaminated" by some stray bits of evolution-fertilizer getting into the experiment.

    ==============================

    Fortunately there is no such thing as evolutiton-fertilizer or primer so that sort of fail scenario is nothing to worry about.

    Hopefully all can agree.

    ============= and no such thing as evolution limited by "intent"

    Not only is there no such thing as evolution-fertilizer but there is also no such thing as " evolution-limited-by-intent-of-observer passively watching" since the observer never had evolution-fertilizer to start with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
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  2. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    Gee, you are really set on that "what we agree on" stuff, aren't you?`

    So... if there was an infinitly capable Creator... we would see humans popping-out from dust all the time?
    And if we don't see that... that would mean a "fail" of the ICC?
     
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  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Sure if the infinitely capable Creator chose to do that "all the time" instead of just in the evening-and-morning of day 6.

    Though we DO have some hints every day as per the infinitely capable creator - because in a single evening-and-morning a plant created by the infinitely capable creator (and not at all present in the barren earth starting condition) daily transforms dirt to plant, and every day a human (and a horse) will eat part of a plant and transform it directly into more human or more-horse as the case may be.

    by contrast we do not see rocks doing that today and we do not know of any talent/property in rocks that would have done that in the past.

    =================

    direct observations in nature favor more the Creator's work than the rock's capability to do it.
     
  4. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

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    Bob, if you ever had a desire to actually learn how biological evolution (and basic biology) works, I've got a thread with free educational materials you could take advantage of: Educational resources for learning about biology and evolution

    If you are serious about all this "common ground" stuff, the first step is learning what the theory of evolution really says.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  5. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    And a person who is neither a creationist nor an atheist would say that was all tendentious nonsense. You are, at some point, going to have to decide whether you are arguing against the theory of evolution or against atheism.
     
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  6. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

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    Given his conceptional understanding of evolution isn't what the theory of evolution is, he's not really arguing against it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  7. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    Wouldn't you think that you are a bit disingenious here?

    You discard the problem that we don't have any direct observable evidence of your claim, replace it with something else - something that also fits perfectly in the non-theistic explanation - and then lament that we don't have direct observable evidence of the idea that you reject.

    At least be honest and admit that plants and organic chemistry are as much a "hint" towards abiogenesis as to your creator deity.
     
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  8. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster Well-Known Member

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    "Atheism" doesn't have a position on the nature of the early Earth.

    Please stop conflating "scientific consensus" with "non-belief". They are not the same thing.

    The "gurus" that posit the position (evolution) opposite to the ones you posit (creation) aren't the atheists they are the scientists. That CF displays all of our faith tags may confuse you or at least reinforces this false notion when you discuss these things with us. I would change mine to "scientist" but for two facts 1) "scientist" isn't an available label, and more importantly 2) "scientist" isn't a faith label or philosophy -- it is a profession.

    Yours truely,

    "Hans Blaster"
    Scientist
     
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  9. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

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    I don't agree.
    • Life likely did not emerge from rocks (unless Cairns-Smith was correct)
    • Life likely emerged from a "primeval soup"
    • The primeval soup was likely primed with pre-biotic molecules from incoming bolides
    • For prkaryotes to "pop-out" eukaryotes all you need are:
      • A billion years or so
      • Challenging and changing environments
      • Chance

     
  10. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

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    No, it takes more than just rocks; e.g. water, light, heat, gases, etc.
     
  11. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

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    Quite; persistently arguing against an egregious straw man version of evolution is just wasting his (and our) time.

    I submit that, given the number of times he's been corrected yet still persists, it's trolling.
     
  12. Shemjaza

    Shemjaza Regular Member Supporter

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    Repeatedly stating falsehoods about someone else's beliefs could reasonably be labelled lying or bearing false witness.
     
  13. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

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    A lot of creationists seem to think they aren't lying though. And they are more than willing to double down on their misconceptions.

    But on the other hand, if they didn't rely on misconceptions about science and evolution, they wouldn't have anything to argue about.
     
  14. Shemjaza

    Shemjaza Regular Member Supporter

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    The phrase "Evolution is a lie from Satan and almost all scientists are foolish dupes" could be a honest statement... but repeating specific lies about a belief, experiment or consequence is a different thing.
     
  15. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

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    In the context of a regular forum creationist I'm willing to chalk it up to ignorance coupled with Dunning-Kruger.

    For professional creationist organizations, however, there is no excuse. I do hold them guilty of deliberately misleading people.
     
  16. Warden_of_the_Storm

    Warden_of_the_Storm Well-Known Member

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    I saw you say this on the other thread you started up and I am surprised no-one has said this but:
    Please provide one example of an atheist, or anyone for that matter, saying that life only came from rocks alone.

    There are hypothetical models for how life started on an early Earth, and not one of them just go "... Rocks turned to single celled organisms."
     
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  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    I can't find even one atheist who will wildly claim to imagine that there was never a time when Earth did not have life on it.

    Are you one??

    Your profile says you are not atheist.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    well now we are getting some place.

    what else are atheists adding to the "mix" that they are so reluctant to state so far?

    Because we have gone through a lot of pages of this on different threads where they seem to be satisfied with the fact that at one time that is all there was on planet earth.
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Are suggesting that you believe that evolutionist have in fact had evolution-fertilizer that they could add to a pile of rocks and at any moment they wished - to then see single celled organisms popping into existence from the barren rocks - but just "did not want to do it" ??

    So then mythical evolution-fertilizer or not "it was not going to happen"??


    Ok so dust, gas, rocks and water mix?? + ?? evolution-fertilizer?

    ok so rocks fell from the sky that also had no life on them.

    So rocks...now have ... more rocks. Are you saying they are special rocks because they fall from the sky?
     
  20. Bungle_Bear

    Bungle_Bear Whoot!

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    In Norse mythology, trolls often live in rocks.
     
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