Creationist Club

[mark kennedy]

I don't like the fact that creationists have to stand alone on these boards. I am interested in starting a Creationist Club that discusses the theological and scientific issues of creationism. The goal would be to help educate creationists on the issues involved in the creation/evolution controversy. I would also like for it to be a support group for creationists to build one another up in their faith.

I am most interested in those who have been looking at this issue for some time. How do you think the subject should be approached and how do you think it should be addressed. We all have busy lives but I think that the creationists on here that I have become aquainted with have more to share then the do. Quit being so stingy, tell us what you think.

Only kidding on the last part, but I am serious about this. Let's say the Creationist Club were the most presigous organization in all of science and theology( I realize this is hyperbole but bear with me). You were offered the opportunity to address the annual meeting of the group as the keynote speaker. They have all just finished their coffee and are waiting on the edge of their seats to hear you speak. What do you have to say to these people.

The theme is Creationism, what does it mean, where does it come from and where is it going? I'm tired of talking to evolutionists about this, I want to hear from creationists.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Metaphor]

I don't like the fact that creationists have to stand alone on these boards. I am interested in starting a Creationist Club that discusses the theological and scientific issues of creationism. The goal would be to help educate creationists on the issues involved in the creation/evolution controversy. I would also like for it to be a support group for creationists to build one another up in their faith.

I am most interested in those who have been looking at this issue for some time. How do you think the subject should be approached and how do you think it should be addressed. We all have busy lives but I think that the creationists on here that I have become aquainted with have more to share then the do. Quit being so stingy, tell us what you think.

Only kidding on the last part, but I am serious about this. Let's say the Creationist Club were the most presigous organization in all of science and theology( I realize this is hyperbole but bear with me). You were offered the opportunity to address the annual meeting of the group as the keynote speaker. They have all just finished their coffee and are waiting on the edge of their seats to hear you speak. What do you have to say to these people.

The theme is Creationism, what does it mean, where does it come from and where is it going? I'm tired of talking to evolutionists about this, I want to hear from creationists.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I think your idea is a needed one. The Bible tells us to uplift each other in the faith..and that is hard to do in the middle of a heated debate with evolutionist or a Theistic Evolutionist.

How many creationists on here think that the Earth was created in a literal, 24-hour day? How many think that "day" really a period of X amount of years? Why?

-John

 

[chaoschristian]

I think this is a great idea. I look forward to reading this thread as it develops. All the best to you all with it.

 

[john crawford]

I think your idea is a needed one. The Bible tells us to uplift each other in the faith..and that is hard to do in the middle of a heated debate with evolutionist or a Theistic Evolutionist.

How many creationists on here think that the Earth was created in a literal, 24-hour day?

I thought it took six days with God resting on the seventh. Why else have a Sabbath Day?

How many think that "day" really a period of X amount of years? Why?

What's the point of having a creationist club if membership is open to posters who think that a day = "X amount of years?"

 

[Remus]

I wanted to address some debating guidelines in my first post in this thread. I hope you don’t mind.

The Creation/Evolution debate has interested in for some time now. It wasn’t long ago that I had never heard of Christians that believe in Common Descent. I was caught off guard by this and had to rethink some things. Is there room for Theistic Evolution under the umbrella of Christianity? Many would say no, and I can understand why one would say this. It’s difficult for me to understand how someone could hold to the concept that we evolved from lower forms of life and still maintain a belief in the teachings of Christianity. However, my lack of understanding does not preclude the possibility that they can do this. The Bible states that “whoever believes in Him shall not parish but have eternal life.” It does not say “whoever believes in Him and believes that God created the world in six literal 24 hour periods 6000 years ago shall not parish…” Above all else, TE’s are still our bothers and sisters and should be treated with the respect that they due and the respect that you want.

However, there will be times that you’ll come across one that claims to be a Christian but isn’t. The Bible does say that “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Be careful in situations like this. As a general rule, you should not attempt to call them out. Even if you are right, you won’t accomplish anything except having real Christians come to their defense and will end up giving them more support. People like this won’t be able to keep it up forever and will eventually show their true nature.

So, how does one debate this topic? The first suggestion is something that I’ve already said. Attempt to be respectful at all times. I know this is hard to do at times, but you should at least make a concerted effort. On the flip side, don’t refrain from ‘telling it like it is’ if the situation warrants it.

My second suggestion is to say what you mean and use terminology that will get your ideas across to the person you are addressing. They don’t care what you mean; only what you say. If they can disprove what you say, then you lose. For example, if you want to say that you don’t believe that we evolved from single-cell organisms then say that. Don’t say “I don’t believe in evolution” and expect them to take that as what you meant. The term “evolution” has many meanings and they use this to their advantage (of course, you can use this to your advantage at times too). It can mean common descent, or it could mean small changes within a population. If you don’t express what you mean, you’ll find yourself trying to explain how you can’t believe in it and still explain the different breeds of dogs.

My next suggestion is to keep the thread on topic. Don’t let someone pull you off on a tangent. That is unless you think the other person is going to end up hanging themselves. Most likely, you’ll be dealing with more than one person and end up having to defend against two or more people on different topics. This can also put you into a situation where you’re having to defend an opinion that you don’t hold.

Next is to read and investigate everything that is presented. This goes for scientific matters as well as Biblical matters. On scientific matters, go to the source if you can. There are several scientific publications online that you access. Some have limited free access and others you have to pay. There’s plenty free stuff out there though. Avoid using information from sites dedicated to either side. Even if what they say is true, the person that you are debating will not accept it as such.

The scientific community has done some really amazing things and they are an asset and should be held in high regard. However, they are not perfect. Any scientist will tell you this. In forum debates, some people will attempt to portray modern science as if it’s never wrong and hold it up as some sort of ultimate measure of truth. It is up to you if you want to let them keep up this façade. From what I’ve seen, most people will go along with it and it ends up costing them the debate. There will be times that this isn’t necessary. Since the scientific community understands its limitations, it’s easy to find articles that will support your position.

Finally I’ll wrap this up with a couple of general suggestions:
Make sure your spelling and grammar is right.
Learn what logical fallacies are and learn how to recognize them. (very important)
Admit when you are wrong.
Apologize quickly.

That’s all I have for now. I hope this helps.

God bless,
Remus

 

[vossler]

First of all I'd like to say this is a wonderful idea!

Creationist, like myself, who have a limited knowledge of the scientific terminology and logic behind many evolutionary ideas need a place they can go to get honest biblically based answers without getting into an argument. I rarely use scientific arguments for my posts, but that doesn't mean I don't want to have a basic understanding of the evidence being thrown about.

Now the theological reasoning and arguments I'm extremely interested in. That is my passion and where my focus will always remain. God's Word is rich with meaning, depth and importance. It is more than enough for me to digest and understand so I don't need to spend any more time than what is minimally required trying to understand evolution which is meaningless to me and God's plan for my life.

I look forward to coming back here and taking part in the dialog.
Thanks Mark.

 

[no1nose]

Sounds good!

 

[shernren]

Remus, these are good guidelines and I am happily adding them to my internal list of standard operating procedures.

 

[Remus]

Remus, these are good guidelines and I am happily adding them to my internal list of standard operating procedures.

The enemy!!!! Out, out vile evolutionist!!!

Seriously though, it would be nice if the respect part came from both sides. You're not a problem though, from what I've seen, you're usually respectful.

 

[mark kennedy]

Actually, I was thinking of making it a closed thread. Creationists on here could post a topic idea to this thread along with an outline of the essay, exposition...etc. If the group agrees to the topic the post can be edited, revised, reviewed in here, if nessacary, then I will move it to the locked thread. What I would want for a member of the Creationist Club to agree to is that they are indeed Young Earth Creationist and agree to post something indepth regularly. When looking at something we want to include in the thread we should have some kind of a guideline for review. Spelling and grammer being the first obvious check. Then we might want to specify formating, fonts, images...etc. It would not really have to be put to a vote or anything but if there is a dispute over some aspect of the post, I would say edit it out.

I Think two types of posts would be ideal, one, expositive posts of scientific questions like random mutations or how things adapt to new environments. Two expositive posts on theological issues like choice passages in Scripture that warrent a YEC postion as doctrine. You need not be an expert but I would expect something serious, indepth and edifying to creationists, particularly new ones. My thing is biology and genetics but someone else might base their views on the Song of Solomon.

I don't think we would need a tight screening process, just have prospective posts entered here. We can talk about it for a while and when everyone is happy with it I'll move it to the locked thread. Eventually, if the posts are really good and there are enough of them I could ask the senior moderators for a sticky. That would be a permenant thread at the top of forum that lukers and websurfers could access immediatly. This would be a lot better then them having to wait a couple of days to get a response from one of us.

Now this might attrached some attention and I imagine the poster might get invited into a debate in the common area. I just don't want it in here and I am a moderator and I can move it out of here if need be. My suggestion there would be to set up a thread in the common area just for debate invitations by noncreationists.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Remus]

Oh sorry. I got carried away

Okay, I'm game. I could dig up what I wrote about how the age of the earth is calculated. Is it something like that that you are looking for?

 

[mark kennedy]

Oh sorry. I got carried away

Okay, I'm game. I could dig up what I wrote about how the age of the earth is calculated. Is it something like that that you are looking for?

Sure, that is definitly a creationist topic. Someone made the suggestion via PM that some of the submissions should be kept within the group. I hadn't thought of that but some folks might not like their writting posted publicly. It made me think that we might want to have some kind of PM or email study material available for members. At any rate just a thought.

Myself I will probably by doing something on what darwinism is and why it's such a controversal concept.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Remus]

If we need some place more private, I know of a forum that we can use.

It's been a bit dormant for the past month or so, but it would be nice to see it going again

 

[mark kennedy]

If we need some place more private, I know of a forum that we can use.

It's been a bit dormant for the past month or so, but it would be nice to see it going again

I was thinking PM or email but I think I know where you are talking about. I convey your thoughts to the person who raised the concern and see what he says.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

What I would want for a member of the Creationist Club to agree to is that they are indeed Young Earth Creationist and agree to post something indepth regularly.

OEC's won't be welcome, then?

 

[shernren]

Maybe you'd need a separate place for YECs and another for OECs. I doubt that there's a lot of common ground in terms of origins between the two of them ...

Mark what did you mean by "creationists stand alone" in your OP? Curious.

 

[john crawford]

Maybe you'd need a separate place for YECs and another for OECs. I doubt that there's a lot of common ground in terms of origins between the two of them ...

Mark what did you mean by "creationists stand alone" in your OP? Curious.

Excuse me for commenting here, but, a six-day creation is fundamental to the YEC position. Next comes Noah's Ark and the worldwide flood. Third is the chronological order of generational descent from the time of Adam and Eve leaving very little leeway for an earth older than 10,000 years. At least this is the scenario and timetable outlined in "The Genesis Flood" by Morris and Whitcomb, and commonly held by leading creationists at ICR and AIG.

How many posters here stand alone on that platform?

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Excuse me for commenting here, but, a six-day creation is fundamental to the YEC position. Next comes Noah's Ark and the worldwide flood. Third is the chronological order of generational descent from the time of Adam and Eve leaving very little leeway for an earth older than 10,000 years. At least this is the scenario and timetable outlined in "The Genesis Flood" by Morris and Whitcomb, and commonly held by leading creationists at ICR and AIG.

How many posters here stand alone on that platform?

I adhere to those things. I still don't really understand how this club would work but I'm willing to try.

 

[john crawford]

I adhere to those things. I still don't really understand how this club would work but I'm willing to try.

I suppose we are in the process of sorting out how the club will work.

I propose that if we have any differences of opinion regarding creationism itself, that we open and use other threads for sorting those differences out, as I have done recently with the Homo erectus thread.

Otherwise, this thread could quickly become cluttered with all sorts of issues. I suppose Mark could move certain topics to other threads if he thought it necessary. One thing I would be interested in as a member of this club, is to what extent, some club members could agree on basic issues and work together as a team, since organization and team-work are essential to the success of any enterprise. It certainly would be an interesting project and challenge for some club members who share common beliefs to engage in.

Maybe we could organize ourselves into debating teams within the club for purposes of developing and honing our debating skills before we saunter out into the general debate forums where we usually get individually crucified by the evolutionist teams.

 

[NarrowPathPilgrim]

This is a marvelous idea!

If we need some place more private, I know of a forum that we can use.

Okay, I could also setup a forum just for the club, but I was thinking that a wiki (i.e. like wikipedia.org) might be better! (we could have both if you want!)
Everyone would be able to contribute easily and changes would be recorded and could be reversed so there wouldn't be any danger of people messing articles up...we could also require registration
Sound good?

Sincerely, Zach Doty

PS. I'm a young earth creationist who believes in a literal 6 day creation
Oh, and I'm leaving the computer right now for church, I'll be back online later