Creationism

[lmd0137]

In my research of the Christian faith one of the biggest arguments I come across is creation science vs. evolution(closely followed by gender stereotyping, but that's a different discussion). I was raised in a secular household and attended a public school where I was taught the theory of evolution as fact. Most of the creation story is quite new to me. I am not quite sure I understand the argument. I have always been very logical and science oriented, and I did not until quite recently question anything I was taught in school(now I question everything). Faith is new and unfamiliar to me. I want to be able to trust The Bible and God's word with all my heart, but I am finding it difficult to understand creationism. Do you have any advice about how to clarify creation science so it makes sense to me. I do not want to have doubts in my faith and in order to stop the doubts I must understand. If you know of any resources, or have any advice to help me clarify this for myself, please let me know. Thank you, it is much appreciated.

 

[aiki]

See: Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics or:The Institute for Creation Research

Selah.

 

[Mr Dave]

I know you're in the USA and this article says God and Evolution in Britain, but you may find this interesting - http://campaigndirector.moodia.com/Client/Theos/Files/RescuingDarwin.pdf

There's some others to do with Darwin/evolution and religion here - Reports -> Free to Believe?

 

[bling]

You do not have to take the Genesis account as being literal. One day might not be one day in our time. We do know living things mutate and natural selection does occur, so that part of evolution is completely correct. The big issue is going from chemicals (that do not evolve since they are not living) to first life. On earth there is a relatively short amount of time (given modern science’s estimate) between the first liquid water on earth and life, so how did that happen? No scientist has presented even a theory for peer review on this subject. The more you study the subject (I enjoy studying this since I have a master’s in Chemistry), the more powerful the option of intelligent design grows.

 

[salida]

Sure.

A good start is creation.com and reasons.org(science and belief). I have a science background and believe in some macroevolution and in microevolution-but not darwinism at all. I question everything-research and see if its true.

The peer review thing many times are athiest and agnostic scientists who have the same worldview. Science to me is man interpreting what God has done-not men telling us what it is without God. Have you seen Expelled? Ben Stein questions scientists, professors. I strongly suggest seeing it. Creation is being taught in some states along side evolution-this should have been the case a long time ago-instead of the indoctrination of darwinism and claiming its a fact when its not. In fact, creationism has way more evidence. Plus, true education will give both views in school.

***You can trust the bible more than any book period-because of its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of it.

Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel a former athiest. Christiananswers.net, www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/

Internal Evidence (prophesies confirmed within bible)
Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Lukes time period 60-70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 - Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 - Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of a dream of
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20/and the fourth
great kingdom to follow- part iron and clay-which is the Roman Empire. During this empire Christ came and his church was established.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Accuracy
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency/Written by God
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years and has no internal inconsistencies.
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. No other religious book makes such claim.
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External Evidences (prophesies outside bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre - Ezekiel 26:1-28
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago; some scholars think 3000 years ago)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archeological Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

 

[Lukaris]

I think the important thing is that God created matter and that His creative action is an energy that can only be uncreated. I believe science law of conservation is that matter & energy are neither created or destroyed whereas we would beileve that matter is created but that the basic laws of science within creation would be understood. St. Paul's passages re the resurrection & creation in 1st Corinthians 15:37-58 I think can be most helpful (of course the resurrection in all of 1 Corinthians 15 is the most important message).

 

[Dark_Lite]

In my research of the Christian faith one of the biggest arguments I come across is creation science vs. evolution(closely followed by gender stereotyping, but that's a different discussion). I was raised in a secular household and attended a public school where I was taught the theory of evolution as fact. Most of the creation story is quite new to me. I am not quite sure I understand the argument. I have always been very logical and science oriented, and I did not until quite recently question anything I was taught in school(now I question everything). Faith is new and unfamiliar to me. I want to be able to trust The Bible and God's word with all my heart, but I am finding it difficult to understand creationism. Do you have any advice about how to clarify creation science so it makes sense to me. I do not want to have doubts in my faith and in order to stop the doubts I must understand. If you know of any resources, or have any advice to help me clarify this for myself, please let me know. Thank you, it is much appreciated.

Creationism is a vocal minority.

You do not have to forsake science to have faith in Christianity. Drop by the Origins Theology forums.

 

[marlowe007]

As you can see from the varied responses thus far, if you approach a large audience with your earnest request you will find different people, all of them equally convinced of their version of reality, urging you to take different paths. This is why I believe it is wise not to fret or dogmatise over this issue, especially if you think your faith depends on it.

 

[laconicstudent]

In my research of the Christian faith one of the biggest arguments I come across is creation science vs. evolution(closely followed by gender stereotyping, but that's a different discussion). I was raised in a secular household and attended a public school where I was taught the theory of evolution as fact. Most of the creation story is quite new to me. I am not quite sure I understand the argument. I have always been very logical and science oriented, and I did not until quite recently question anything I was taught in school(now I question everything). Faith is new and unfamiliar to me. I want to be able to trust The Bible and God's word with all my heart, but I am finding it difficult to understand creationism. Do you have any advice about how to clarify creation science so it makes sense to me. I do not want to have doubts in my faith and in order to stop the doubts I must understand. If you know of any resources, or have any advice to help me clarify this for myself, please let me know. Thank you, it is much appreciated.

Dark_Lite is correct, Creationists are a very vocal minority. There is no need to try and force yourself to believe in something incorrect (creationism) to be a Christian.

 

[Key]

In my research of the Christian faith one of the biggest arguments I come across is creation science vs. evolution(closely followed by gender stereotyping, but that's a different discussion). I was raised in a secular household and attended a public school where I was taught the theory of evolution as fact. Most of the creation story is quite new to me. I am not quite sure I understand the argument. I have always been very logical and science oriented, and I did not until quite recently question anything I was taught in school(now I question everything). Faith is new and unfamiliar to me. I want to be able to trust The Bible and God's word with all my heart, but I am finding it difficult to understand creationism. Do you have any advice about how to clarify creation science so it makes sense to me. I do not want to have doubts in my faith and in order to stop the doubts I must understand. If you know of any resources, or have any advice to help me clarify this for myself, please let me know. Thank you, it is much appreciated.

Think of Creation like this.

A man goes to build a means to travel.

What happens?

All kinds of things get created, some work... some don't and all varying degrees in-between.

But Ideas, inception though most of them at least to some part remains constant, the basic idea of transportation, to move a person, and no matter if goes in the water, air or land, there will be universal aspects to them, where you can see how some designers pulled from other plans, revised and revisited. Sometimes slow, sometimes fast, other times the idea gets fully overhauled or just goes away.

Now imagine you are designing Life.

An Ecosystem.

A World.

Hummmm... take that as you will. The links by others were good, I enjoyed CARM for a bit as well.

 

[Harry3142]

The Creation Stories (there are 2) were written to a people who had just left a land (Egypt) where well over 40 gods and goddesses were worshipped. All of these deities had either the sun, the moon, the stars, or one of the animals surrounding the people which represented them. In short, everything and every animal that the people could see was a visible sign of either a god or a goddess.

The first Creation Story (Genesis 1:1 to 2:3) was a methodical 'demythologization' of what the people were seeing. Everything and every animal that surrounded them was nothing more than either an inanimate object or an animal, period. The only deity was the one God, and he was invisible. No idol could be constructed in his likeness, and no object or animal could be pointed to as the visible representation of him. By the time that the student reached Genesis 2:3, he had been taught this.

The second Creation Story (Genesis 2:4-25) corrected the notion that Man was just another animal. God had formed him from the dust of the ground. He had breathed into him the breath of life. He had him give the other animals names. He had given him a specific place (the Garden of Eden) to live. He had talked directly to him. This was unique; only Man was created in this manner; only Man was shown this much attention.

In egyptian mythology the first five days of creation were spent by the gods and goddesses doing nothing more than creating other gods and goddesses. Man and the other animals were all created on the sixth day, almost as an afterthought. You can read it here: www.theologywebsite.com/etext/egypt/creation.shtml

As for my personal belief, I believe in Intelligent Design. The theory of evolution is a theory, nothing more. There is too much evidence of ELE's having occurred as late as 70,000 years ago for me to give evolution serious consideration apart from a divine hand being directly involved.

 

[Adoniram]

Creationism is a vocal minority.

You do not have to forsake science to have faith in Christianity.

Quite true. The views of Copernicus and Galileo were once the minority as well.

If you know of any resources, or have any advice to help me clarify this for myself, please let me know. Thank you, it is much appreciated.

lmd0137,
You will find as you delve into this matter that even though the "science" that is called evolution has gained the status of "mainstream," it is based on speculation and assumptions that cannot be proven. Granted, adaptation and hybridization have been observed (yet Darwin's finches are still finches, no more, no less), but the concept of common descent is mere conjecture based on their interpretation of the evidence. Finding the bones of an ape in the sands of Africa and proclaiming that it is a human ancestor does not make it so.

Yet, even though creation scientists face major obstruction when trying to publish in some of the major journals, you will find that their research is valid and "scientific," with the added benefit that their findings do not conflict with the Biblical account of creation as God related it to Moses. Considering that many of the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and others reference back to a literal interpretation of the creation account found in Genesis, believing it as written gives one a firm foundation upon which to build one's faith.

You do not have to forsake "science" to be a Christian, but you can be discerning as to who's interpretation of the evidence you believe. Someone has already mentioned Creation Ministries as a resource but it bears repeating.

 

[Celtic D]

See: Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics or:The Institute for Creation Research

Selah.

As a Christian and a Scientist I would take these websites with a very large dose of salt. There is no real science in them.

Many Christians including Scientists who are Christians (and there are many ) are Theistic Evolutionists - there is no conflict between evolution and faith.

 

[Mr Dave]

As a Christian and a Scientist I would take these websites with a very large dose of salt. There is no real science in them.

Many Christians including Scientists who are Christians (and there are many ) are Theistic Evolutionists - there is no conflict between evolution and faith.

Well said

 

[aiki]

lmd0137,
You will find as you delve into this matter that even though the "science" that is called evolution has gained the status of "mainstream," it is based on speculation and assumptions that cannot be proven. Granted, adaptation and hybridization have been observed (yet Darwin's finches are still finches, no more, no less), but the concept of common descent is mere conjecture based on their interpretation of the evidence. Finding the bones of an ape in the sands of Africa and proclaiming that it is a human ancestor does not make it so.

Yet, even though creation scientists face major obstruction when trying to publish in some of the major journals, you will find that their research is valid and "scientific," with the added benefit that their findings do not conflict with the Biblical account of creation as God related it to Moses. Considering that many of the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and others reference back to a literal interpretation of the creation account found in Genesis, believing it as written gives one a firm foundation upon which to build one's faith.

You do not have to forsake "science" to be a Christian, but you can be discerning as to who's interpretation of the evidence you believe. Someone has already mentioned Creation Ministries as a resource but it bears repeating.

Hear, hear! Great post!

 

[Mr Dave]

lmd0137, this programme is good. It was a one-off show by the BBC (put into 6 parts for youtube) that is presented by a Christian Theological University lecturer who fully accepts evolution. In the programme there is the Orthodox Christian view of Genesis, the theory of evolution, and the history of the modern creationist movement and shows how it is at odds with its preceding 1,900 years of Christianity.

YouTube - Did Darwin Kill God? (1/6)

 

[seashale76]

My best advice is to not get worked up over it. The important thing is that the how isn't the important thing, it is the One responsible for the end result that is important. Our scriptures do not touch on the how, because that wasn't the point. Don't let the YECs, the OECs, the theistic evolutionists, and the atheistic evolutionists draw you into their quibbles. Be agnostic about it.

Sincerely,
One who used to angst and care about such things a great deal, and was quite into evolution, and then discovered that the the entire argument pro and con took her away from what was truly important.