Creationism/Evolution

[hedrick]

Explain abiogenesis - once unliving molecules assembling naturally to a living organism. Where is God in the explanation? Genesis accounts that God breathed life in Adam and he became a living soul. Can you see a conflict between Scripture and evolution?

Big bang cosmology - consistent with God creating universe from nothing (superseding the steady state universe).
Cosmological constant - on the order of 10^-122 and you can't change it too much or the universe collapses or expands too quickly to from stars, galaxys and life (fine tuning arguments for Design)
etc
...

All sciences that obey the paradigm indicate (not prove) Design. It grows with each new discovery and test. My question is why is your BELIEF in evolution squeezing out your belief in God? Even Nietsche devout atheist understood the metaphysical impact of Darwinism. So why can you not?

I don’t see how this post holds together. First,abiogenesis isn’t evolution. My belief in evolution isn’t squeezing out God. Rather, confining God to things we don’t understand is doing so. That’s the implication of denying evolution. The argument here seems to be if we have a scientific understanding of something, God can’t be responsible. That is fatal for Christianity.

 

[Isilwen]

The argument here seems to be if we have a scientific understanding of something, God can’t be responsible.

I like the way you summarized that and it is true of this argument being presented.

 

[chad kincham]

No, evolution explains HOW the world was created.
The Bible just says THAT it was created - by God.

I'm not trying to make the Bible fit anything. The Bible reveals God to us; his nature, his will and his plan. It tells us clearly that the universe, and everything we see around us, came about because God wanted it to be so; he spoke, and it happened. The Bible doesn't say whether it happened instantly or over many years. That is not its purpose; it is not a scientific textbook. When we read it, it sounds as if it was all instant, and within a short space of time - i.e one minute the universe didn't exist; 6 days later it consisted of stars, planets and a fully populated earth, covered in vegetation and water. That may have been the case, or it may have taken millions of years to get to that point.

Whichever position a person has, nothing changes the fact that they are sinners and can only be saved through Jesus.

Evolution explains no such thing. It’s not even real science.

It’s the metaphysical philosophy of naturalistic materialism, masquerading as science.

Famous evolutionist Carl Popper made the mistake years ago of admitting that evolutionary theory is not science, but metaphysics, because it’s not falsifiable- and the full wrath of the evolutionary institutions fell on him, and he had to backpedal on his honesty.

It’s not falsifiable because when a dead end is reached, they just switch to another rabbit trail, and keep going.

 

[Kenny'sID]

No, evolution explains HOW the world was created.
The Bible just says THAT it was created - by God.

How long do you suppose it took to take the dust of the earth, form a man and breath life into it?

The bible doesnt say an infinite number of things, but that doesn't mean they happened.

Following is what happened, and at what point there do you think God stopped and let man do some evolving, or is it more reasonable to assume, he did just as he said he did, right then and there?

Genesis 2:7, KJV: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

I'm just not seeing anything that so much as hints at evolution there.

 

[Kenny'sID]

]

 

[chad kincham]

No, evolution explains HOW the world was created.
The Bible just says THAT it was created - by God.

I'm not trying to make the Bible fit anything. The Bible reveals God to us; his nature, his will and his plan. It tells us clearly that the universe, and everything we see around us, came about because God wanted it to be so; he spoke, and it happened. The Bible doesn't say whether it happened instantly or over many years. That is not its purpose; it is not a scientific textbook. When we read it, it sounds as if it was all instant, and within a short space of time - i.e one minute the universe didn't exist; 6 days later it consisted of stars, planets and a fully populated earth, covered in vegetation and water. That may have been the case, or it may have taken millions of years to get to that point.

Whichever position a person has, nothing changes the fact that they are sinners and can only be saved through Jesus.

The Bible and evolution are diametrically opposed. One cannot be a bible believing Christian and accept ToE, they are completely contradictory.

Adams lineage is a pile of dirt. He did not have a mother and father that were a product of evolving from common ancestors over millions of years, until humans arose.

And Eve was not in existence when God made Adam. When God created Eve, He said it’s not good for Adam to be alone.

No woman existed when God cloned Eve from Adams rib cells.

Furthermore, the Bible is clear that death did not exist until the curse was placed on creation by Adam and Eve’s sin.

This absolutely precludes the life and deaths of untold numbers of creatures over millions of years to eventually arrive at Adam.

And Jesus absolutely taught Adam and Eve and the creation account in a Genesis as literal, and all of Moses writings as the accurate word of God - they are not a metaphor, analogy or symbolism.

 

[Kenny'sID]

We can easily say the same for you.

Can you easily explain where man had the time to evolve if he was created in a single day?

Last I heard, evolution took slightly more than that.

 

[Isilwen]

Can you easily explain where man had the time to evolve if he was created in a single day?

Last I heard, evolution took slightly more than that.

I already posted a link within this thread that aligns with my belief that explains it better than I can. If you want to know my position, you can see it there.

 

[Isilwen]

One cannot be a bible believing Christian

So, basically, you are saying that we're not Christian?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Then

I already posted a link within this thread that aligns with my belief that explains it better than I can. If you want to know my position, you can see it there.

Then you will be evading the question? I mean, just for the record.

 

[Isilwen]

Then


Then you will be evading the question? I mean, just for the record.

As I explained in that post, I did the link because I have a hard time explaining myself and it is easier to just allow someone else to explain it for me.

Not evading the question! Just for the record.

 

[Chi.C]

I don’t see how this post holds together. First,abiogenesis isn’t evolution. My belief in evolution isn’t squeezing out God. Rather, confining God to things we don’t understand is doing so. That’s the implication of denying evolution. The argument here seems to be if we have a scientific understanding of something, God can’t be responsible. That is fatal for Christianity.

Abiogenesis is essential to evolutionary biology. Evolution needs first life inorder to evolve. Abiogenesis is the origin of life - within naturalism. You cannot have evolution without first life. Are you an evolutionist in this matter or did God create the first life?

The problem is not scientific understanding but the lack of scientific understanding. Evolutionism is a sect of Scientism. An unfalsifiable demiurge embraced by scientific establishment. A state religion seeking to pollute the body of Christ.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Not evading the question! Just for the record.

The question I posed to you has nothing to do with anything but that question, but if you want to use the fact that you have an outlook on evolution as means to not answer, that is completely up to you.

However, I think it is fair to say, not answering will cause some of us to feel as though you have no answer....just so you know.

Thanks just the same.

 

[Isilwen]

However, I think it is fair to say, not answering will cause some of us to feel as though you have no answer....just so you know.

Since I cannot control how others feel, not my problem? I answered by providing a link that explains it better than I ever could. If you want to take that as a non-answer that is all on you. I did the best that I could.

BTW, it is really hard to take you seriously when you have the golden Trump as your avatar.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Since I cannot control how others feel, not my problem? I answered by providing a link that explains it better than I ever could. If you want to take that as a non-answer that is all on you. I did the best that I could.

BTW, it is really hard to take you seriously when you have the golden Trump as your avatar.

Like I said, thanks just the same.

 

[hedrick]

The Bible and evolution are diametrically opposed. One cannot be a bible believing Christian and accept ToE, they are completely contradictory.

No. Evolution opposes the inerrancy snd the understanding of the Bible it assumes. During most of Christian history people were happy to see parts of the Bible as non literal. If you approach the Bible without the precommitment to inerrancy, you would never think it is the kind of work assumed by inerrancy.

 

[chad kincham]

No. Evolution opposes the inerrancy snd the understanding of the Bible it assumes. During most of Christian history people were happy to see parts of the Bible as non literal. If you approach the Bible without the precommitment to inerrancy, you would never think it is the kind of work assumed by inerrancy.

Evolution is supposed to be about science, not religion.

But anyone who claims to believe the Bible cannot accept ToE - they are diametrically opposed to each other.

Not to mention that evolutionary theory is horrible science, and completely false in its naturalistic and materialistic interpretation of the data, from abiogenesis to transitional fossils and common ancestry.

 

[nli]

The genetic code of even the simplest organism has complexity beyond what any accident could produce. Big time doesn't solve the problem.

And...life is more than genetic code
And...why is there something rather than nothing?
* Why are days 24 hours long? Wouldn't human life be more difficult if they were much shorter or longer than 24 hours? Why not thank the Creator who made the attributes of earth and physics what they are?
* What if gravity had different properties? What if gravity was so strong that it crushed us? What if gravity were so weak that objects in astronomy moved differently and there were no ocean tides? Again, thank the Creator for life and physics as it is.

 

[Taodeching]

The concept of original sin has slightly different variations but they all point to the same thing, which is that we inheret our sin nature from Adam. The only way someone would want to deny this is because they also want to deny creationism.

Not true. The Orthodox deny your idea and are creationist. Your idea is a western idea and there is more to the world than the western ideals of things

 

[Taodeching]

Evolution and the Bible are diametrically opposed.

No, American fundamentalism and evolution are opposed because by and large fundamentalism and some evangelicalism askew education.