Creation

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So what's to say that God did not 'create' everything with the history already built in?

I notice that Genesis does not say he created the particles that would become stars... but that he created stars.

I also notice that Genesis states that God created man... fully grown.

So what's to say that God didn't 'create' with 14-15 Trillion years of history built in when he created 10k years or so ago? (from our POV)

Why hook ourselves to the idea that something, created from nothing, has to be created in the way we think?

Food for thought.

Forgive me...

 

[Kristos]

I suppose I don't have a problem with the concept that God created things that were already developed, like stars, but I have heard this taken to a point where I can no longer agree, where God actually created things to fool us into thinking that the universe or earth is actually older than it is, like "fake" dinosaur fossils, etc...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I suppose I don't have a problem with the concept that God created things that were already developed, like stars, but I have heard this taken to a point where I can no longer agree, where God actually created things to fool us into thinking that the universe or earth is actually older than it is, like "fake" dinosaur fossils, etc...

Fool us?

Hmmm... that would be assigning a purpose of deception. I don't see any evidence of that.

I don't see any of it as being fake.

Another way of thinking about it would be to say that time moved so fast in the beginning that many things happened that we think should have taken x number of years because we focus on our current understanding of time.

Forgive me...

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

So what's to say that God did not 'create' everything with the history already built in?

I notice that Genesis does not say he created the particles that would become stars... but that he created stars.

I also notice that Genesis states that God created man... fully grown.

So what's to say that God didn't 'create' with 14-15 Trillion years of history built in when he created 10k years or so ago?

Why hook ourselves to the idea that something, created from nothing, has to be created in the way we think?

Food for thought.

Forgive me...

Wouldn't that make God systematically deceitful?

Moreover, such a schema ignores the fact that God's creative act is as much an ongoing reality as it is something that happened in the beginning. God did create the world ten thousand years ago, and he did create the world ten second ago. His sovereign will alone allows the universe to proceed from each temporal point A to each temporal point B.

But how useful is this idea, anyway?

For people who, being Christian, adhere to the overwhelming scientific consensus about the age of the universe, the formation of galaxies and stars and planets, and the evolution of life on our planet, this view just tells us that science is empirically right, because empirical reality is the domain of the sciences, even if it is all really the work of a systematically deceitful god.

For Christians who believe in a largely literal reading of Genesis 1-11 and selectively adopt parts of ancient Hebrew cosmology (though not geocentrism or a flat earth), this view allows them to claim that they are ultimately right, but that empirically humans are still evolved from lower order apes and therefore that, when created with apparent age, Adam had an apparent father and mother of whom he had apparent memories. Thus the first thing God did to Adam was lie.

 

[JohnRabbit]

i'm partial to the "gap theory" on this one.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

So what's to say that God didn't 'create' with 14-15 Trillion years of history built in when he created 10k years or so ago?

That would mean that God has purposely deceived us in the act of creation...that is not the character of God in scripture. The universe has the appearance of age because it is old.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Ha, I didn't notice this at first, but it's hardly 14-15 trillion years old. All the scientific data from multiple subfields of physics points to 13.7 billion. Just saying.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Fool us?

Hmmm... that would be assigning a purpose of deception. I don't see any evidence of that.

I don't see any of it as being fake.

Another way of thinking about it would be to say that time moved so fast in the beginning that many things happened that we think should have taken x number of years because we focus on our current understanding of time.

Forgive me...

I am quite partial toward that idea. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity opened the idea that time is not a fixed entity as we might consider it. If all things (except God, of course) came into being from a small speck in eternal space, then the time which ensued could just as well be relatively infinitely vast as we might view it.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

That would mean that God has purposely deceived us in the act of creation...that is not the character of God in scripture. The universe has the appearance of age because it is old.

So... Is this deception?

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

...or just our feeble, fallen lack of understanding?

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Ha, I didn't notice this at first, but it's hardly 14-15 trillion years old. All the scientific data from multiple subfields of physics points to 13.7 billion. Just saying.

Billion... trillion... meh.

Forgive me...

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

So... Is this deception?

No. That verse shows that God is not hindered by time.

...or just our feeble, fallen lack of understanding?

We are most definitely feeble in our understanding, but what we do understand is that the universe is billions of years old. It is theoretical (at best) to assume that is not the case.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

In my mind this all works together. Nothing wrong with science... nothing wrong with creation.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

No. That verse shows that God is not hindered by time.



We are most definitely feeble in our understanding, but what we do understand is that the universe is billions of years old. It is theoretical (at best) to assume that is not the case.

Then... is Genesis speaking of thousands of years or 24 hour days? Do we feel deceived just because we do not understand?

Forgive me...

 

[Kristos]

Fool us?

Hmmm... that would be assigning a purpose of deception. I don't see any evidence of that.

I don't see any of it as being fake.

Another way of thinking about it would be to say that time moved so fast in the beginning that many things happened that we think should have taken x number of years because we focus on our current understanding of time.

Forgive me...

Yes, there are people who say that dinosaurs didn't really exist on earth. Their fossils were created in situ in order (presumably) for us to discover.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Then... is Genesis speaking of thousands of years or 24 hour days? Do we feel deceived just because we do not understand?

Forgive me...

The question we should ask is whether time was ever different than it is now.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Then... is Genesis speaking of thousands of years or 24 hour days? Do we feel deceived just because we do not understand?

Forgive me...

Within the world of Genesis 1, the days in question are six twenty-four hour days, and within the story-world of Genesis 2-11, we have literal accounts of talking snakes, supernaturally-empowered trees, and cataclysmic floods.

But like the story-world of John Bunyan's A Pilgrim's Progress or J.R.R. Tolkien's Ainulindale creation story in the Silmarillion or C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia, the literal depiction of events within the literal (= literary) story-world of Genesis are meant to point to far more profound truths that are factually true in our world.

 

[JohnRabbit]

No. That verse shows that God is not hindered by time.



We are most definitely feeble in our understanding, but what we do understand is that the universe is billions of years old. It is theoretical (at best) to assume that is not the case.

the scientist say that the universe is about 13.7 billion years old!

 

[Yarddog]

So what's to say that God did not 'create' everything with the history already built in?

I notice that Genesis does not say he created the particles that would become stars... but that he created stars.

I also notice that Genesis states that God created man... fully grown.

So what's to say that God didn't 'create' with 14-15 Trillion years of history built in when he created 10k years or so ago? (from our POV)

Why hook ourselves to the idea that something, created from nothing, has to be created in the way we think?

Food for thought.

Forgive me...

Beyond any doubt, God can do anything, anyway that he chooses. I don't believe that Genesis is really about the creation of the world as much as it is about revelation about Jesus coming into the world, Judaism, and Christianity.

God gave the book of Genesis to Moses to write, maybe on the mountain. I believe that prophesy is all through the book.

 

[3 Angels Messages]

...thoughts from Scripture, Science and ...from a 7th Day Adventist...

For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11

The T [heistic] E [volution] position is a 'compromised' position, no matter what type of TE it is. This is not based upon feeling, but a matter of facts that can and have been established, for instance, please consider, dealing with Geology, Astronomy, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, etc:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-2/#post60388754

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-2/#post60388781

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-2/#post60395796

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-2/#post60397166

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-2/#post60397527

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-2/#post60397611

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-2/#post60397700

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-3/#post60397829

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-3/#post60407951

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-3/#post60408048

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-3/#post60408055

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-4/#post60408062

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-4/#post60408170

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-4/#post60408191

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-4/#post60408236

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-5/#post60408409

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-5/#post60408453

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-5/#post60408784

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-7/#post60414161

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-8/#post60443572

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-9/#post60452551

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-10/#post60469360

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057-12/#post60899337

...also please see the following Posts and please read through, thank you:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652057/

also, you may consider:

http://www.pearltrees.com/#/N-reveal...&N-f=1_1593499

 

[weariedsoul]

I suppose I don't have a problem with the concept that God created things that were already developed, like stars, but I have heard this taken to a point where I can no longer agree, where God actually created things to fool us into thinking that the universe or earth is actually older than it is, like "fake" dinosaur fossils, etc...

What you say is true i think. Things like the man from primate theory have taken man his own craftiness. Trying to explain away creationism with theories of man evolving from apes.



1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.