Creation vs Evolution

[AV1611VET]

Δ[mass-energy]/time vs ΔΩ[alleles]/time

Feel free to discuss your POV.

Thanks.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

The hypotenuse is equal to the square root of the sum of the squares of the other two sides.

 

[Lost4words]

Woof!

 

[Frank Robert]

Δ[mass-energy]/time vs ΔΩ[alleles]/time

Feel free to discuss your POV.

Thanks.

What's to discuss. One is science based on evidence observed in laboratory and natural populations as they change over time. The other is a minority Christian belief that their God created humans 7-10 thousands years ago.

 

[AV1611VET]

What's to discuss.

Your point of view.

 

[Frank Robert]

Your point of view.

My point of view is creationism is a minority Christian belief. Evidence is not a valid argument against a faith belief and faith-belief is not an argument against science. We often here creationists claim that evoluiton is a faith based just like a belief in the literal interpretation of the bible which demonstrates that creationist are either ignorant of the scientific method or they are making up stories.

I think that the minority of scientists who engage in evolution-creationists debates were likely brought up with a religious belief in a literal interpretation of the bible and rebelled against it after learning science and evolution.

 

[AV1611VET]

We often hear creationists claim that evolution is a faith based just like a belief in the literal interpretation of the bible which demonstrates that creationist are either ignorant of the scientific method or they are making up stories.

Did you take a good look at my formula for creationism?

It shows the level of mass/energy CHANGING over time.

In other words, the level of mass/energy in the universe started out at zero, then was raised to its current level over a period of six days.

Why on Earth (pun intended) would literal creationists respect the scientific method with regards to the Creation Week?

Yet you seem to think they are ignorant of the scientific method.

Do you think a person can both understand the scientific method, AND respect a literal six-day creation at the same time?

 

[SelfSim]

.. Yet you seem to think they are ignorant of the scientific method.

Which is quite a reasonable position, as we are yet to see them demonstrate any semblance of understanding of the scientific method.

Do you think a person can both understand the scientific method, AND respect a literal six-day creation at the same time?

Sure .. provided one distinguishes a literal six-day creation as being a pure belief.
Its then a personal choice as to whether or not to respect that particular belief.

 

[AV1611VET]

Which is quite a reasonable position, as we are yet to see them demonstrate any semblance of understanding of the scientific method.

Let's try this angle:

Do you believe a person can be near-omniscient in understanding how the scientific method works, and still believe in a literal six-day creation?

My point is that a person can understand it well enough that he can say it didn't play a part in the creation events.

I knew my mom and dad quite well, and I can say with authority that they were NOT PRESENT when the Mona Lisa was painted.

There was a time when this universe existed, and science as we know it today, did not.

Science didn't start configuring this universe until AFTER the universe was completed.

 

[Frank Robert]

Did you take a good look at my formula for creationism?

It shows the level of mass/energy CHANGING over time.

In other words, the level of mass/energy in the universe started out at zero, then was raised to its current level over a period of six days.

Why on Earth (pun intended) would literal creationists respect the scientific method with regards to the Creation Week?

If a deity created the universe he many have done so by first creating natural laws to take care of the grunt work. Whatever happened does not effect evolution which begins with the last universal common ancestor (LUCA.)

Yet you seem to think they are ignorant of the scientific method.

Do you think a person can both understand the scientific method, AND respect a literal six-day creation at the same time?

I have never claimed that they could not. When I said they are making up stories I was thinking of the writings on ID and creationism by credentialed scientists like Michael Behe whose ID writings are stories that are not based on the scientific method.

 

[SelfSim]

Let's try this angle:

Do you believe a person can be near-omniscient in understanding how the scientific method works, and still believe in a literal six-day creation?

I'm gonna choose to not believe any of that (for objectively well-founded reasons).

My point is that a person can understand it well enough that he can say it didn't play a part in the creation events.

And so? .. Your 'point' there carries very little weight because 'creation events' is just another belief.

I knew my mom and dad quite well, and I can say with authority that they were NOT PRESENT when the Mona Lisa was painted.

'Authority' eh? Wow .. should I somehow care about that self claimed 'authority'?

There was a time when this universe existed, and science as we know it today, did not.

Science didn't start configuring this universe until AFTER the universe was completed.

Aren't I lucky that you didn't claim any of that with 'authority'!?
Phew .. I am lucky today!

 

[Bradskii]

Science didn't start configuring this universe until AFTER the universe was completed.

Only someone who doesn't understand what science is could write such a sentence.

Science can be considered either the body of knowledge that we have about the natural world or the process whereby we gain that knowledge. I assume that you mean 'natural laws' as opposed to 'science' (which you entirely reject because the results of the scientific process and your beliefs are completely incompatible). In which case your sentence makes even less sense.

 

[AV1611VET]

Phew .. I am lucky today!

More like you're sarcastic.

 

[AV1611VET]

If a deity created the universe he many have done so by first creating natural laws to take care of the grunt work.

 

[AV1611VET]

Only someone who doesn't understand what science is could write such a sentence.

Fair enough.

Nature didn't start configuring this universe until AFTER the universe was completed.

And in the meantime, there was nothing for science to explain that would make sense today.

 

[SelfSim]

More like you're sarcastic.

There are parts of what you post I might resonate with .. but you never act by way of demonstration of your commitment to the implication of those words ... rather, you just keep piling on more nonsense.

 

[SelfSim]

Fair enough.

Nature didn't start configuring this universe until AFTER the universe was completed.

And in the meantime, there was nothing for science to explain that would make sense today.

.. and also following the same logic; in that same 'meantime' none of what you just said, had any meaning either, so what you just said was meaningless.

Can you at least post something worthy of discussion?

 

[Bradskii]

Nature didn't start configuring this universe until AFTER the universe was completed.

Like I said (as did @SelfSim above), that sentence makes zero sense. And I'm being very generous there. It completely rejects science. Yet you live in a world where science provides you with everything you need to exist.

How you deal with that dichotomy is a mystery to me.

 

[AV1611VET]

It completely rejects science.

No, it doesn't.

You can't reject something that didn't exist yet.

Until the mid 19th century, our letters were delivered without postage stamps.

It's ludicrous to expect someone to believe postage stamps were used before then.

 

[Walk together]

God created all that we know and all that we don't know all this took place over a six day period. Science can be very productive and very destructive all at the same time. All that science has and knows is made available from the very atoms that God created. Free will created the drugs that can save lives and bombs that can take lives God has given us all that can sustain us and man has turned the sun against himself by bringing it to earth making science the greatest evil that feeds the devil and spoils the world that we live in. When all the world starts to fry there will be meany that cries out to the Lord and ask for a miracle that they never before believed in.