Creation Suggests Creation

[pitabread]

That's one of my points as well. If it takes more than a lifetime to understand evolution...????

It doesn't necessarily take a lifetime to understand the concepts of evolution. But there is certainly more material on the subject than any one individual could hope to cover.

That's why there is more than a single biologist working in the field.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It doesn't necessarily take a lifetime to understand the concepts of evolution. But there is certainly more material on the subject than any one individual could hope to cover.

That's why there is more than a single biologist working in the field.

How deep into the study must one go before the light comes on?

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Plasma (E/c2)

1. Mass can change to plasma
2. Plasma can change to Mass

Which makes it eternal stuff! If you believe in evolution you can step back a little and picture mass changing to plasma to create what has been called the Big Bang. I have read the earth will likely be pulled back into the sun in which everything will be burned up by plasma energy - Earth Is Spiraling Away From The Sun For Now, But Will Eventually Crash Into It.

The plasma energy will likely turn back into the mass in which it will be forms floating in the darkness of the universe. But....

1. Will it return to the plasma energy and become another sun one day?
2. How many times in eternity has the mass changed to plasma and the plasma returned to mass?

Continued interests in the E/c2...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws and makes religion attractive

I believe the Christian God has triumphed because of the promise of the spiritual E/c2.

Quotes from the rocket scientist, Wernher von Braun, who became a Christian in his latter days...

"Manned space flight is an amazing achievement, but it has opened for mankind thus far only a tiny door for viewing the awesome reaches of space. An outlook through this peep-hole at the vast mysteries of the universe should only confirm our belief in the certainty of its Creator. " - Wernher von Braun

"For me, the idea of a creation is not conceivable without invoking the necessity of design. One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the universe without concluding that there must be design and purpose behind it all." - Wernher von Braun

"My experiences with science led me to God. They challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?"- Wernher von Braun

"It is in scientific honesty that I endorse the presentation of alternative theories for the origin of the universe, life and man in the science classroom. It would be an error to overlook the possibility that the universe was planned rather than happening by chance." - Wernher von Braun

“I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science.” - Werner von Braun

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Quotes from the rocket scientist, Wernher von Braun, who became a Christian in his latter days...

"Manned space flight is an amazing achievement, but it has opened for mankind thus far only a tiny door for viewing the awesome reaches of space. An outlook through this peep-hole at the vast mysteries of the universe should only confirm our belief in the certainty of its Creator. "
- Wernher von Braun

"For me, the idea of a creation is not conceivable without invoking the necessity of design. One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the universe without concluding that there must be design and purpose behind it all." - Wernher von Braun

"My experiences with science led me to God. They challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?"- Wernher von Braun

"It is in scientific honesty that I endorse the presentation of alternative theories for the origin of the universe, life and man in the science classroom. It would be an error to overlook the possibility that the universe was planned rather than happening by chance." - Wernher von Braun

“I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science.” - Werner von Braun

Werner von Braun was also a key figure in Nazi Germany's weapon design and was instrumental in creating the V-2 rockets that were launched at Britain during the war.

 

[pitabread]

How deep into the study must one go before the light comes on?

In terms of developing a conceptual understanding, I imagine as long as it might take to get through a first year undergrad biology course (e.g. 8 months or so).

But this will entirely depend on the individual, how much effort they are willing to put in, and what sort of learning material they use.

For anyone with a genuine interest in learning about biology and evolution, there is still this thread with links to free courses on the subject: Educational resources for learning about biology and evolution

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

...It would be an error to overlook the possibility that the universe was planned rather than happening by chance." - Wernher von Braun

He's right in that respect - and it wasn't overlooked. In fact, there was a time when most scientists thought that was the case. But as observations of the universe became ever more detailed and precise, it became clear that there was no explicit evidence of planning, and all the evidence points to a natural development, following relatively simple physical rules, from an extremely hot and dense state of unknown origin.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In terms of developing a conceptual understanding, I imagine as long as it might take to get through a first year undergrad biology course (e.g. 8 months or so).

But this will entirely depend on the individual, how much effort they are willing to put in, and what sort of learning material they use.

For anyone with a genuine interest in learning about biology and evolution, there is still this thread with links to free courses on the subject: Educational resources for learning about biology and evolution

Doesn't evolution take place at the sub-atomic level. How is one supposed to understand that?

Level of Biological Organization FSc Biology Book 1 Chapter 1 Introduction online Lecture

I can only understand a few words he's saying. I had an Indian woman tenant once that was actually worse. I had to ask her to write out what she wanted to ask/tell me. It was actually quite comical as she had no idea that her speech was completely unintelligible.

 

[Ophiolite]

Doesn't evolution take place at the sub-atomic level. How is one supposed to understand that?

Making a cup of tea, a fried egg, or writing a post for CF also take place at the sub-atomic level. You seem to be able to handle at least one of those without assistance. Why should evolution be any different?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Making a cup of tea, a fried egg, or writing a post for CF also take place at the sub-atomic level. You seem to be able to handle at least one of those without assistance. Why should evolution be any different?

You're getting close to the bottom of the rabbit hole with that.

https://in5d.com/how-subatomic-particles-affect-consciousness/

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Doesn't evolution take place at the sub-atomic level. How is one supposed to understand that?

Level of Biological Organization FSc Biology Book 1 Chapter 1 Introduction online Lecture

I can only understand a few words he's saying. I had an Indian woman tenant once that was actually worse. I had to ask her to write out what she wanted to ask/tell me. It was actually quite comical as she had no idea that her speech was completely unintelligible.

Is there an endgoal to advertising your racism? It seems an odd argument to be espousing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Is there an endgoal to advertising your racism? It seems an odd argument to be espousing.

You find racism in my post??

 

[Speedwell]

You find racism in my post??

Not necessarily. It depends, I suppose, on whether you regard the speech of your tenant and the lecturer to be inherently incomprehensible, or only incomprehensible to you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Not necessarily. It depends, I suppose, on whether you regard the speech of your tenant and the lecturer to be inherently incomprehensible, or only incomprehensible to you.

How would either translate to racism?

 

[Speedwell]

How would either translate to racism?

The second possibility would not; the first would if you attributed the inherent unintelligibility to the race which inhabits the Indian subcontinent.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The second possibility would not; the first would if you attributed the inherent unintelligibility to the race which inhabits the Indian subcontinent.

It's actually my inherent inability to understand them much of the time. I have had many occasions to speak to them on the phone and must ask them to repeat themselves many times in order to resolve a problem.

I also have a long time Indian lady living here that I interact with almost every day and have the same problem. There are certain English words that she just cannot articulate. I often must ask her several times to repeat her question or statement.

The young Indian woman I referred to earlier was so un-understandable that it was like listening to someone speak "double-talk". It was actually humorous as she went on and on as if I understood every word. And even though she was speaking English her dialect was so heavy that I couldn't understand a single word she was saying.

 

[Speedwell]

It's actually my inherent inability to understand them much of the time. I have had many occasions to speak to them on the phone and must ask them to repeat themselves many times in order to resolve a problem.

I also have a long time Indian lady living here that I interact with almost every day and have the same problem. There are certain English words that she just cannot articulate. I often must ask her several times to repeat her question or statement.

The young Indian woman I referred to earlier was so un-understandable that it was like listening to someone speak "double-talk". It was actually humorous as she went on and on as if I understood every word. And even though she was speaking English her dialect was so heavy that I couldn't understand a single word she was saying.

Yes, these people were speaking a dialect which you had difficulty understanding. They don't have any trouble at all understanding each other.

 

[Speedwell]

It's actually my inherent inability to understand them much of the time. I have had many occasions to speak to them on the phone and must ask them to repeat themselves many times in order to resolve a problem.

I also have a long time Indian lady living here that I interact with almost every day and have the same problem. There are certain English words that she just cannot articulate. I often must ask her several times to repeat her question or statement.

The young Indian woman I referred to earlier was so un-understandable that it was like listening to someone speak "double-talk". It was actually humorous as she went on and on as if I understood every word. And even though she was speaking English her dialect was so heavy that I couldn't understand a single word she was saying.

Your difficulty is not inherent. The language they are speaking is still English--as you can see when they write it down. If you lived amongst them you would gradually acquire an "ear" for it and have no difficulty. They would also acquire the "ear" to understand you better as well.

 

[pitabread]

Doesn't evolution take place at the sub-atomic level. How is one supposed to understand that?

This is why one starts with a basic biology course and works from there. Courses are typically structured to compartmentalize knowledge; one starts with the basics and works their way up.

As for your claim about evolution taking place at the sub-atomic level, technically everything takes place there; that's more a discussion suited for a physics class than a biology class.

If one is learning about biology and evolution, one is typically not going to get into sub-atomic physics.

Level of Biological Organization FSc Biology Book 1 Chapter 1 Introduction online Lecture

I can only understand a few words he's saying. I had an Indian woman tenant once that was actually worse. I had to ask her to write out what she wanted to ask/tell me. It was actually quite comical as she had no idea that her speech was completely unintelligible.

You do know there are umpteen other instructors in biology right? I have no idea what you're trying to suggest by linking to a specific lecture only to complain about their accent.

If you have trouble understanding their speech, then find another source. I linked to the thread on educational resources: Educational resources for learning about biology and evolution

 

[pitabread]

Your difficulty is not inherent. The language they are speaking is still English--as you can see when they write it down. If you lived amongst them you would gradually acquire an "ear" for it and have no difficulty. They would also acquire the "ear" to understand you better as well.

This is exactly it. It's very possible to learn different dialects and understand people even if they are speaking in a thick accent.

I work with someone who has a thick French-Canadian accent. There are certain English words she completely mispronounces. Over time I've learned what those words are and what she means. Any time I am speaking with her my brain just automatically fills in those meanings.

That said, in contexts like learning where one isn't familiar with the subject and terminology, trying to learn from someone in a heavy foreign accent is a challenge. I had a number of professors in University that had thick accents which made it extra challenging to learn the material. Of course, this is where one can always use other sources or in some cases just sign up for a whole different class. There are always options.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is why one starts with a basic biology course and works from there. Courses are typically structured to compartmentalize knowledge; one starts with the basics and works their way up.

As for your claim about evolution taking place at the sub-atomic level, technically everything takes place there; that's more a discussion suited for a physics class than a biology class.

If one is learning about biology and evolution, one is typically not going to get into sub-atomic physics.



You do know there are umpteen other instructors in biology right? I have no idea what you're trying to suggest by linking to a specific lecture only to complain about their accent.

If you have trouble understanding their speech, then find another source. I linked to the thread on educational resources: Educational resources for learning about biology and evolution

I thought it was a good metaphor for 'evolution speak'.