Creation or Evolution, does it matter?

[Speedwell]

How about the one just posted before yours?


Do you feel comfortable to talk about them? At least, give some first-level rebuttals.

Nothing to rebut--all false statements about the theory of evolution. Straw men, in other words.

Fossils that remain the same for every creature across millions of years and can only be connected to other types by "missing" common ancestors?

A completely false and misleading description of the fossil record. What creationist ministry website did you get it from?

E coli that despite countless mutations remain E coli?

Fruit flies that despite untold mutations remain fruit flies?

Mutations are not enough. There has to be selection as well. Were the experimenters selecting in order to produce a new species, or were their experiments about something else?

 

[juvenissun]

Nothing to rebut--all false statements about the theory of evolution. Straw men, in other words.

Your faith to evolution is very strong.
Sad.

 

[Speedwell]

Your faith to evolution is very strong.
Sad.

Faith? No, I reserve my faith for my salvation in Christ. Evolution is just a scientific theory. I am not a biologist, but I find it plausible so far as it can be explained to a layman. But my education and experience are in math and engineering. I understand the math behind stochastic processes like evolution and I've seen computers running variation and selection algorithms which can design entirely novel products. I understand why Information Theory is not a problem for evolution. Consequently, I am reasonably confident that the evolutionary process can do, and has done, what scientists claim for it. But as I said, evolution is a scientific theory. Like any scientific theory, it is held provisionally only so long as it explains all of the available evidence. As soon as any contradictory evidence is discovered it must be modified or discarded. The history of science is littered with failed theories.. So no, I don't have "faith" in evolution.

 

[juvenissun]

So no, I don't have "faith" in evolution.

I am tire of this conversation and like to stop.
Yes, you do have "faith", very strong "faith" to evolution.

 

[xianghua]

So no, I don't have "faith" in evolution.

yes you do. we cant prove that human is related to a cat. we need to assume it= belief.

 

[Speedwell]

yes you do. we cant prove that human is related to a cat. we need to assume it= belief.

Is belief the same as faith? I think that it is a reasonable inference that humans are related to cats. Is that all your faith in God is to you? A reasonable inference?

 

[xianghua]

Is belief the same as faith? I think that it is a reasonable inference that humans are related to cats

base on what? common similarity? but common similarity can also point to a common designer. so again: we need to asume that common descent is true.

 

[Speedwell]

base on what? common similarity? but common similarity can also point to a common designer. so again: we need to asume that common descent is true.

Violation of Occam's Razor. Similarity is not the only evidence for common ancestry and there is no evidence of a designer or any indication of what mechanism was used to get the design into the creatures. There's not even any reason to suggest a designer--not for a Christian, anyway. The theology of God's authorship of the universe does not require such a thing.

 

[rjs330]

The Bible says evolution didn't happen. The events of creation indicate what types of animals where created when. They don't match with evolutionary theory.

The age of the earth is not the same as the age of life. Remember God created the heavens and Earth. We have no idea how long the earth hung in space before God put forth life on it.

 

[rjs330]

Violation of Occam's Razor. Similarity is not the only evidence for common ancestry and there is no evidence of a designer or any indication of what mechanism was used to get the design into the creatures. There's not even any reason to suggest a designer--not for a Christian, anyway. The theology of God's authorship of the universe does not require such a thing.

Similarity is the only evidence. Every test, every idea only points to similarity. We still have no observable or testable evidence of evolution as it's presented.

 

[Jimmy D]

The Bible says evolution didn't happen.

Where?

I just read a post by a Christian suggesting that the bible supported micro evolution.

As a Christian, how many of you believe in evolution?

 

[xianghua]

Violation of Occam's Razor. Similarity is not the only evidence for common ancestry and there is no evidence of a designer

so what all this evidence suppose to be?

(image from https://microbeonline.com/bacterial...ortance-and-examples-of-flagellated-bacteria/)

or this one:

(image from Flagella and Cilia: Structure and Functions (With Diagram))

or this one:

(image from VCAC: Cellular Processes: ATP Synthase: Advanced Look: Synthesis)

or this:

(image from June Newsletter: Kinesin Motor Proteins and Neurodegeneration)

on the other hand we have no evidence for common descent.

 

[rjs330]

How do you know if the 7 days God mentions is literally 7 days or metaphorically 7 days?
God also mentions in the bible that we are not to stumble the weak in disputable matters.

It matters because God said in Exodus he created life in six days. Do we believe him? It matters because Jesus and the apostles said Adam was the first man. Are they decieved? Is God a liar and a deceiver? No of course not. Jesus was the creator, he ought to know. He taught his apostles the truth.

So while it doesn't really matter when it comes to salvation and it doesn't really matter in many ways, it does matter in some. Because it cast doubt upon the veracity of the Bible and the beliefs of Christ and the apostles. If the bible isn't true about this the what else isn't it true about? Perhaps it's not true about Christ's death and resurrection. It's the easy for non believers to say the Bible is nothing but a bunch of stories and fables. And it usually starts with creation. Sadly many believers side with them.

 

[Speedwell]

so what all this evidence suppose to be?

(image from https://microbeonline.com/bacterial...ortance-and-examples-of-flagellated-bacteria/)

or this one:

(image from Flagella and Cilia: Structure and Functions (With Diagram))

or this one:

(image from VCAC: Cellular Processes: ATP Synthase: Advanced Look: Synthesis)

or this:

(image from June Newsletter: Kinesin Motor Proteins and Neurodegeneration)

Just cartoons. Schematic cartoon drawings of natural objects. Not even cartoons of a "designer" or cartoons of the "designer" putting a design into the objects.

 

[rjs330]

Where?

I just read a post by a Christian suggesting that the bible supported micro evolution.

As a Christian, how many of you believe in evolution?

I guess I should have clarified. I meant the Bible doesn't teach that evolution from common ancestry is true. Sorry about that.

 

[xianghua]

Just cartoons. Schematic cartoon drawings of natural objects. Not even cartoons of a "designer" or cartoons of the "designer" putting a design into the objects.

its base on real structures. it doesnt base on imaginary things you know. we even have a real image of the flagellum:

(image from https://phys.org/news/2018-04-bacterial-propeller.html)

(image from The Evolution of the Flagellum)

 

[Speedwell]

its base on real structures. it doesnt base on imaginary things you know. we even have a real image of the flagellum:

(image from https://phys.org/news/2018-04-bacterial-propeller.html)

(image from The Evolution of the Flagellum)

OK, so now your images prove that the flagellum exists. Where is the evidence of design?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

yes you do. we cant prove that human is related to a cat.

Neither can we "prove" that your father is your biological father.

But we sure as hell can support it with evidence so strong and overwhelming that it would be nothing short of perverse to still deny it.

we need to assume it= belief.

No. You don't need to assume if you have overwhelming evidence in support of it with zero evidence against it.

You're confusing it with your own creationist beliefs, which you can only hold DESPITE the evidence to the contrary.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

base on what?

Based on literally everything we know about genetics, biogeography, comparative anatomy, the fossil record,....................................

In short: based on the entirety of the scientific field of biology and all of its sub-fields.

common similarity? but common similarity can also point to a common designer. so again: we need to asume that common descent is true.

No.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The Bible says evolution didn't happen. The events of creation indicate what types of animals where created when. They don't match with evolutionary theory.

Yep. And when science doesn't match a priori faith based beliefs - it's not the science that is incorrect.

The age of the earth is not the same as the age of life. Remember God created the heavens and Earth. We have no idea how long the earth hung in space before God put forth life on it.

The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
The oldest known traces of life are some 3.8 billion years old.
The oldest known traces of complex multi-cellular life is less then a billion years old.
Homo Sapiens shows up between 150k and 200k years ago.