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Hoghead1

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I think I have been through this before with you, AV1611. I don't like having to repeat myself, but, as I said before, there is no pluperfect tense in Hebrew. "Had" is inappropriate here. Also, it is apparent in Gen. 2 that man was crated before the animals, whereas in Genesis 1, before. Adam cannot have been created both before and after.
 
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Hoghead1

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I seem to recall, Abel, that I sent you a detailed account of the contradictions. Having gone to the trouble of so doing, OI would appreciate it if you would take the time to read it, so that you clearly understand my claim. Also, your claim about atheists here is totally inaccurate. I am going on conclusions support4ed by modern biblical scholarship, and these scholars are anything but atheists. Many I know of are ordained clergy.
 
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Hoghead1

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The contradictions I am concerned with, Freezerman, are not at all due to different translations. If anything, some translations have tried to cover them up. For example, 2 Sam. 21:19, in many Bibles, says that Elhanan killed Goliath. However, that is not at all what the Hebrew text says. It simply says Elhanan killed Goliath, period. The "brother of" was added by translators trying to gloss over any contradiction here. It is unclear why this contradiction occurred. Some think it a scribal error, though the scribes carefully checked their work for errors. I think it suggests David may have had material spin-doctored to make himself look better, however. Nobody knows. Point is, there is a major contradiction here. Some translators have tried to gloss over the contradictions in Genesis, by translating material in Gen. 2 in the pluperfect. However, Hebrew had not pluperfect tense. So forget that. It was true there was some degree of tampering with the texts over the years. From the Dead Sea Scrolls to our Bible, the book of Samuel got shorter and Goliath get way taller. The Johannie Comma, the reference to the Trinity, is not at all in any early Bibles and so probably was inserted by later editors. The ending of Mark was something added on to Mark later on.
 
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SkyWriting

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I think I have been through this before with you, AV1611. I don't like having to repeat myself, but, as I said before, there is no pluperfect tense in Hebrew. "Had" is inappropriate here. Also, it is apparent in Gen. 2 that man was crated before the animals, whereas in Genesis 1, before. Adam cannot have been created both before and after.

Gen 2 is a detailed account of man from the more generalized account in Gen 1.
None of that interferes with God sending His Son for our sins.
 
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SkyWriting

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It is unclear why this contradiction occurred.

Just because you don't understand why it says what it says, doesn't make it a contradiction.
When you were in school, one kid always said "I don't get it" to the math teacher.
We didn't list these as mathematical incongruousness.
 
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ewq1938

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Genesis contradictions?
In Genesis chapter 2 the order of creation seems to be different to that in chapter 1 with the animals being created (2:19) after Adam (2:7). Doesn’t the Bible contradict itself here?

It isn't a biblical contradiction. It contradicts the false belief that Gen 1 and 2 are the same creation stories. Adam wasn't created in Gen 1, and he also wasn't the first human being. That is a belief based on misinterpretations of various NT verses.
 
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ewq1938

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This is something I wrote on this:

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.


This is the fifth day. God creates sealife and birds. Take note that fowls/birds are also created from the waters.


Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


Yet in Gen. 2 we are told about fowls/birds being created out of the ground, not out of the waters.



Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


This is the 6th day. What does God make first? Land animals!



Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Now man is made and has dominion over the animals that were made first.


1: animals created first.


2: man created last.



Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


He makes the 6th day people both male and female!


Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


Tells them again to have dominion over the animals and the fish of the sea.





Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.


God sees no man that would be for tilling the ground, farming. Historically mankind were not farmers but were primarily hunter-gatherers which modern Archeology has also proven.


Genesis 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


And he makes a man, alone. No female is created.


Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


He is in charge of the garden of Eden, working alone.


Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.


God decides Adam needs help. Adam is alone! No animals are there!


Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


God makes animals to help Adam! In the 6th day animals were first, then men AND women, but on the 8th day one man is made, then animals. Also note that there is no mention of sea life. Why? Because there was no waters inside the garden for sea life.


Genesis 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.


But Adam needs a more direct helper...


Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.


And now God creates female from Adam.


Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


6th day man wasn't in the garden but was told to subdue the earth and multiply. Adam and Eve were not told to subdue the earth, nor were they instructed to multiply. The 6th day ppl are told to subdue the fish of the sea but Adam was not, nor was Adam near the sea as he was inside of this garden inside of Eden. Adam's job was to take care of the garden of Eden which was a full time task.


Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.


Trees bearing fruit were created before mankind was.


Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


But after the 7th day God created Adam before causing the trees in Eden to grow.


Recap of the facts:


Gen. 1 creation order: animals, men and women (plural) at the same time.


Gen. 2 creation order: one man, animals, then one woman.


For simplification ONLY, I will refer to the events after the 7th day as "8th day".


5th day- fowls of the air created out of the waters before man and before land animals
6th day- land animals created before man
8th day- man created before animals
8th day- fowls created at the same time as land animals, from the ground not the waters


6th day- male and female created at same time
8th day- man created first, then animals, then a female created


6th day- more than just a farmer
8th day- just a farmer


6th day- told to have dominion over everything on the earth and the sea, and to multiply
8th day- in charge of maintaining the garden in Eden only. No mention of fish or the sea and no mention of multiplying


6th day- fruit bearing trees created before man
8th day- fruit bearing trees created after man


Conclusion: Two different accounts of creating man and his environment. One is about a large number of people with dominion over everything, the other about a certain man, his environment which was a certain Garden within Eden, and his wife. God created things in different orders on the two different days of creation.
 
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AV1611VET

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I don't like having to repeat myself, but, as I said before, there is no pluperfect tense in Hebrew.
Stuck in Hebrew, are you?

Do you demand your menu in Hebrew when you go out to eat?

Do you even speak Hebrew?

Although Paul said this ...

1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

... I have a feeling that a 10,000-word Hebrew post explaining your "contradiction" still wouldn't get through to you.

יכול להיות שאני טועה
 
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CarlaB

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There are not contradictions in Genesis!! The atheists say that there are contradictions. And this article is an answer to them.
What difference does it make? Genesis is just one of hundreds of creation stories that were circulating around the world when men started to wonder how everything got here, they had no idea so they had to make up stories to try and explain how it all happened, people don't need to be rocket scientists to see that, did no one think to ask how the writers of all these stories heard about them? where did they get the information? were they there? no of course not they either heard them or simply made them up and wrote them down.
Religion relies on knowing rather than not knowing, if you don't know something then make something up so it appears as if you do know something, 'I don't know' is for atheists and people who have never heard the stories you were raised to believe.
 
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Abel Gkiouzelis

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What difference does it make? Genesis is just one of hundreds of creation stories that were circulating around the world when men started to wonder how everything got here, they had no idea so they had to make up stories to try and explain how it all happened, people don't need to be rocket scientists to see that, did no one think to ask how the writers of all these stories heard about them? where did they get the information? were they there? no of course not they either heard them or simply made them up and wrote them down.
Religion relies on knowing rather than not knowing, if you don't know something then make something up so it appears as if you do know something, 'I don't know' is for atheists and people who have never heard the stories you were raised to believe.

Hi! Genesis says the truth about the creation and science:
BIBLICAL FORECASTS OF SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERIES – BY DR. HUGH ROSS, ASTRONOMER, CALIFORNIA, USA
 
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OzSpen

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You have to understand, SkyWriting, that Judaism is said to have two of everything. As I recall, there are two head rabbis in Jerusalem today. So it is not at all surprising that the ancient Hebrews produced two very different creation myths. The reason why they appear back-to-back in the Bible is that the redactors did not know which one to choose and so decided to include them both. The Pentateuch is now known to be a composite of material from at least four different sources, plus teh editors, and therefore it is only natural some contradictions would be found. The Bible is known for its major contradictions, about 100.

That's a theologically liberal view that has been rejected many times over. The JEDP theory is just that - a theory - and it has been refuted. See 'The "Documentary Source Hypothesis": Does Anyone Still Believe It?'.
 
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AV1611VET

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Yes, that's right! So simple! :)
2 Corinthians 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
 
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Abel Gkiouzelis

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2 Corinthians 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Yes!!!!!! :)
 
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