Creation debate

[theophilus40]

There will be a debate between Ken Ham, the founder of Answers in Genesis, and Bill Nye, known as "the Science Guy", on February 4 at 7 pm Eastern Standard Time. The subject will be: "Is creation a viable model of origins in today's modern scientific era?" The debate will be live streamed free at this site:

http://debatelive.org/

 

[1watchman]

Most such debates end up looking good for the one who is a wiser debater, and more skillful at it. It is better to show the value of the Word of God as the best thing for the afterlife, and let the doubters go their own way. God can work on their conscience if they are identified as of the "elect of God"; otherwise the saying is: "a mind persuaded against its will is of the same opinion still".

 

[Achilles6129]

There will be a debate between Ken Ham, the founder of Answers in Genesis, and Bill Nye, known as "the Science Guy", on February 4 at 7 pm Eastern Standard Time. The subject will be: "Is creation a viable model of origins in today's modern scientific era?" The debate will be live streamed free at this site:

Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham | Answers in Genesis

Interesting. I would be more comfortable if a creation scientist were debating Bill Nye. Ham does very well in Biblical debates but he may not do so well in an extra-biblical one.

 

[Achilles6129]

Also, here is the AiG link:

Free Live Streaming of Bill Nye/Ken Ham Debate - Answers in Genesis

The February 4 debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham at the Creation Museum has generated tremendous interest across America. Online debate tickets for a spot in our 900-seat Legacy Hall sold out in less than two minutes, and coverage in the news media, blogs, and other websites has continued to remain intense.

 

[dragongunner]

Whats Kens stance on creation? Is he one that believes God did it all in 7 "24 hour earth days." Or that it was much longer and God didn't go by 24 hours on each day....?

 

[Achilles6129]

Whats Kens stance on creation? Is he one that believes God did it all in 7 "24 hour earth days." Or that it was much longer and God didn't go by 24 hours on each day....?

Six literal earth-days. The same as my stance and anyone who straightforwardly interprets the Scriptures.

 

[dragongunner]

Six literal earth-days. The same as my stance and anyone who straightforwardly interprets the Scriptures.

Thanks. I don't agree with your, or his interpretation then. Been reading the bible for decades and never believed it was literally 24 hrs. each day. Never says it....something to think about is that God did not create the sun until around the 4th day. It was on this day that God also created the day and the night as we know it, and the seasons, the DAYS and the years. So God must of been going by His time before he created the 24 hr. day. Peter even knew about Gods time when he said ..."a thousand years is but a day and night to the Lord."

 

[miamited]

Thanks. I don't agree with your, or his interpretation then. Been reading the bible for decades and never believed it was literally 24 hrs. each day. Never says it....something to think about is that God did not create the sun until around the 4th day. It was on this day that God also created the day and the night as we know it, and the seasons, the DAYS and the years. So God must of been going by His time before he created the 24 hr. day. Peter even knew about Gods time when he said ..."a thousand years is but a day and night to the Lord."

Hi dragonrunner,

I'm not interested in debating the issue, but...

There is no need of the sun to determine a 'day'. If you do your research on the length of days on various planets, you'll note that not a one of them discusses the sun rising or setting to determine that length of their days or that it even has anything to do with there being a day on these planetary bodies

A 'day' is defined as the length of time that it takes a planetary body to make one complete rotation upon its axis. So, technically and scientifically speaking, if the earth were created as a rotating sphere, then as soon as that rotating sphere made one complete turn on its axis there would have been a 'day' upon the earth. Just as there is a 'day' upon Saturn when it completes a full rotation upon its axis.

By the way, Paul did not write that a thousand years was but a day and night to the Lord.

Trust God that He knows what a 'day' is.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[dragongunner]

Hi dragonrunner,

I'm not interested in debating the issue, but...

There is no need of the sun to determine a 'day'. If you do your research on the length of days on various planets, you'll note that not a one of them discusses the sun rising or setting to determine that length of their days or that it even has anything to do with there being a day on these planetary bodies

A 'day' is defined as the length of time that it takes a planetary body to make one complete rotation upon its axis. So, technically and scientifically speaking, if the earth were created as a rotating sphere, then as soon as that rotating sphere made one complete turn on its axis there would have been a 'day' upon the earth. Just as there is a 'day' upon Saturn when it completes a full rotation upon its axis.

By the way, Paul did not write that a thousand years was but a day and night to the Lord.

Trust God that He knows what a 'day' is.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I agree. There is a galactic day.....which is millions of years long. God says that the evening and the morning were the first day....before he even made a earth day to go by, so He was going by something...He also made the trees and plants before he made the sun....but trees and plants need light....yet God created the Light and called it Day before he made the sun, just like he made the evening and the morning before he made a earth evening or morning. I can't see boxing God into "our" time frame, but rather look at what the word says, and what it does not say. Not out to try and upset anyone, but there are things in Genesis I think too many just don't take time to really read and think about.

I never said Paul said the thousand yrs. statement. I said Peter.

2 Peter 3:8 Translations

King James Version (KJV)
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

God Bless

 

[Vanguard PCD]

I would just like to point out that the "light" and "darkness" that were created on day 1 were not referencing a source of light/darkness, but rather the creation [beginning] of time.

The sun and moon are not created until day 4. The Hebrew term means "luminaries."

That is why literalists could never really explain light/darkness without a sun/moon, prior to day 4.

 

[classicalhero]

You don't need to sun or the moon to be the only light source. The Bible describes God as being light and in the New Heaven and Earth their is no need for sun, moon and stars, since God himself is the source of light. There is a reason why the Devil transforms himself into an angel of light, because he is trying imitate God. We see in Exodus when God gives the law to Moses, Moses had his back towards God so that he would be in full view of God's glory, and even when Moses asked God to show his full glory, God hid Moses in a cave and used his hand to shield Moses from the full glory.

 

[dragongunner]

You don't need to sun or the moon to be the only light source. The Bible describes God as being light and in the New Heaven and Earth their is no need for sun, moon and stars, since God himself is the source of light. There is a reason why the Devil transforms himself into an angel of light, because he is trying imitate God. We see in Exodus when God gives the law to Moses, Moses had his back towards God so that he would be in full view of God's glory, and even when Moses asked God to show his full glory, God hid Moses in a cave and used his hand to shield Moses from the full glory.

Agree. Although there was a true light source before the sun, I have not yet decided what or who it was for certain. But the trees and grass and there kind came before the sun was created, and they needed a true light source in order to grow. And since the Bible says that God grew them out of the earth, I just don't see that happening in 24 hrs. in order to feed the animals and men that came later. This is just a opinion, but God has no beginning and no end....so he was around trillions of yrs. before the creation......one needs to ask whats the sudden rush to get everything made in 6 "24 hr. days"...in our time frame of a day...?

 

[miamited]

I agree. There is a galactic day.....which is millions of years long. God says that the evening and the morning were the first day....before he even made a earth day to go by, so He was going by something...He also made the trees and plants before he made the sun....but trees and plants need light....yet God created the Light and called it Day before he made the sun, just like he made the evening and the morning before he made a earth evening or morning. I can't see boxing God into "our" time frame, but rather look at what the word says, and what it does not say. Not out to try and upset anyone, but there are things in Genesis I think too many just don't take time to really read and think about.

I never said Paul said the thousand yrs. statement. I said Peter.

2 Peter 3:8 Translations

King James Version (KJV)
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

God Bless

Hi DR,

Well, I did a quick google of 'galactic day' since I'd never heard of such and one web site says there is no such thing and another says it is a term that came from a Star Wars movie. You'll have to go with what you believe to be the truth, but no, none of your response finds itself in agreement with what I wrote so I don't know why you started off saying that you agree.

As far as the plants and trees needing a true light source, that would only be necessary if the days are long periods of time as you suggest. If they were actually roughly 24 hour days, then there's no problem with any plant surviving through 24 hours without sunlight. I can take a plant out of my garden that is healthy, yes, God would have created all healthy plants, and set it in my basement in the utter darkness of a closet and it will live for about a week before it will begin to show any real trauma from lack of sunlight.

I do agree that there are things in the Genesis 1 account that people don't really take the time to think about, but I imagine we're not speaking of the same people who are lacking in their thinking.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[dragongunner]

Hi DR,

Well, I did a quick google of 'galactic day' since I'd never heard of such and one web site says there is no such thing and another says it is a term that came from a Star Wars movie. You'll have to go with what you believe to be the truth, but no, none of your response finds itself in agreement with what I wrote so I don't know why you started off saying that you agree.

As far as the plants and trees needing a true light source, that would only be necessary if the days are long periods of time as you suggest. If they were actually roughly 24 hour days, then there's no problem with any plant surviving through 24 hours without sunlight. I can take a plant out of my garden that is healthy, yes, God would have created all healthy plants, and set it in my basement in the utter darkness of a closet and it will live for about a week before it will begin to show any real trauma from lack of sunlight.

I do agree that there are things in the Genesis 1 account that people don't really take the time to think about, but I imagine we're not speaking of the same people who are lacking in their thinking.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I was incorrect in galatic, but rather Cosmic....but even that is a type of theory.

I will leave it at that, to agree to disagree....in the grand scheme of things it changes nothing for our souls or love. And one day we will all know the truth and then I can say..."Told ya so!".....LOL.

God Bless

 

[miamited]

I was incorrect in galatic, but rather Cosmic....but even that is a type of theory.

I will leave it at that, to agree to disagree....in the grand scheme of things it changes nothing for our souls or love. And one day we will all know the truth and then I can say..."Told ya so!".....LOL.

God Bless

Hi DR,

Well, truthfully 'cosmic day' is pretty much the same as 'galactic day'. Yes, both just some garbled theories. Whether or not your second and third point; that this understanding has nothing to with with our souls, and that you will one day be able to say..."Told ya so!", is all going to depend on how God defines 'faithful children'. You may find that it has a lot to do with our souls and that you won't be able to look at me and say, "Told ya so!"

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[dragongunner]

Hi DR,

Well, truthfully 'cosmic day' is pretty much the same as 'galactic day'. Yes, both just some garbled theories. Whether or not your second and third point; that this understanding has nothing to with with our souls, and that you will one day be able to say..."Told ya so!", is all going to depend on how God defines 'faithful children'. You may find that it has a lot to do with our souls and that you won't be able to look at me and say, "Told ya so!"

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I see we have no humor today.

 

[Alithis]

occasionally i enjoy such debates for entertainment ...but they are a little like political debates as far as value goes .

those who support one view ..only hear the points made by that views advocate .. and etc .and pretty much close their ears to the opposing view.

 

[classicalhero]

Agree. Although there was a true light source before the sun, I have not yet decided what or who it was for certain. But the trees and grass and there kind came before the sun was created, and they needed a true light source in order to grow. And since the Bible says that God grew them out of the earth, I just don't see that happening in 24 hrs. in order to feed the animals and men that came later. This is just a opinion, but God has no beginning and no end....so he was around trillions of yrs. before the creation......one needs to ask whats the sudden rush to get everything made in 6 "24 hr. days"...in our time frame of a day...?

So you don't believe that God has the power to do what he said? God saaid he did all of his creative work in 6 days and rested on the 7th and that was a pattern for for our lives here on earth. God is trustworthy, man's interpretations aren't.

 

[dragongunner]

So you don't believe that God has the power to do what he said? God saaid he did all of his creative work in 6 days and rested on the 7th and that was a pattern for for our lives here on earth. God is trustworthy, man's interpretations aren't.

I just don't know how long each day was to God. Man inter pets it as 24 hrs. for each day. The bible does not say each day was 24 hrs. The evening and the morning were the first day....but the morning and evening for man was not created until the 4th day. I take it from the beginning when God started creating until the day was done was the evening and the morning...the beginning and the end.....whether it was 2 hrs. or 120 million years...it Gods time. Have you not read earlier in this thread where Peter said 1000 yrs is but a day and a night to the Lord. So I believe God has the power to do what he said, and he did. I just don't interpret it like you do. So was Peter wrong?

How about this, Jesus in Revelation says that he will come quickly.....but its been over 2000 yrs!!!! Does that sound like quickly....?.....sounds kinda slow....Until you realize God is not on mans time. According to Peter he has only been gone 2 days, if a thousand yrs. is but a day and night to the Lord.

I try my best to try and look at things the way God wants me too.....not trying to get God to look at my ways. If that goes against what you believe then we will just have to agree to disagree. I'm ok with that and I hope it does not offend you or others. If it does, then there is nothing I can do about it.

God Bless.

 

[Alithis]

i used this term elsewhere .. it fits here also ...

Arguing over the 6 day creation vs the 6000 yr creation verses an undefined time of 6 dispensations (and time is measured by the earth revolving around the sun which was not created until the forth dispensation(im using that word{dispensation} for fun btw )..as God transcends time ,being eternal he is not confined by it. Being that he is at the beginning of it (created it ) and at the end of it and here in the now .. all at the same time )and it is said that the universe is spreading out ,that is to say it is both still being created while it is already created while it is yet to be created -(just threw that one in to bend our minds some ) so when you see a distant star {a distance beyond real comprehension} and the light that traveled from it taking a measurement of time defined only in increments of the number of times the earth revolves around the sun..which number began only after that a fore mentioned "4th dispensation"...

-is like arguing whether something is blue-green or green-blue