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Creating a New Nation! The New C.S.A. (2)
- Thread starter ShieldOFaith
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I already have!
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell. [See Calvin]
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.
SOLA GRATIA.
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TheNewWorldMan
phased plasma rifle in 40-watt range
I already have!
Then you acknowledge God has no need of quislings to run his crematoria and eternal concentration camps. Looks like you're out of a job.
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FaithLikeARock
Let the human mind loose.
He was conceived and born outside of wedlock. Mary and Joseph were only engaged but if they were married that would be worse because that's basically accusing God of impregnating a married woman which is technically adultery. For someone so bent on pushing the word you sure are nit picking at it.
P.S. And bastard is a very crude and hurtful word and I will ask you kindly not to use it. It isn't any child's fault when their parents make wrong choices.
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The Importance of the Doctrine of the Virgin Birth
Cathy A. Bihler
Quote: What is at stake in Christianity with the doctrine of the Virgin Birth?
If I were to try to put a "nutshell" definition on Christianity, my first thoughts turn to God - Who He Is. Then, I think about who we are, and the relationship between God and us. The Christian Faith is lived out by people who believe that God is Our Creator[1] and that He is Father/Son/Holy Spirit[2]. The Christian Faith is lived out by people who believe that humanity is totally "messed up" by sin[3] and that only Jesus Christ can and does save us from this human condition[4]. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is both the Son of God and the Son of Man: Fully God and yet Fully Human[5]. Christians believe that when people accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to dwell with them[6] and teach them and sanctify them, helping them become the people that God created them to be[7].
God has created humans and enjoyed personal, interactive, and loving relationship with the first of His created humans: Adam and Eve. They chose to disobey God's commandment and brought sin and death upon themselves[8] and to all who were born after them and even to all of the created world[9]. They were removed from the holy Garden of Eden[10]. Now separated by sin from Holy God, how is the relationship restored?
Ever since that day - the fall of humanity from the good and beautiful beginning - God has been busy revealing Himself to us and working for our redemption and total reconciliation. He loves us of His own free will and chooses to give us free will to either:
1. Return our love to Him[11], demonstrating our love by choosing to obey His directions for a holy life[12]. This option includes becoming sons and daughters of God, adopted heirs, and spend eternity in heaven with Him and all the angels and all the other saints[13]. This option includes being forgiven for all that we have done wrong, cleansed and purified from the effects of our sins, becoming holy and righteous[14]. This option includes entering the Kingdom of God now[15] and working toward sanctification[16] and loving others as God has loved us[17]. This option includes a future entering into heaven in fully resurrected bodies[18] designed to last forever with love and light and life and joy and peace[19]; or
2. Chase after what we want: other things, other gods[20]. We can choose options of self-idolatry or self-made idols[21], which we think will bring joy and satisfaction and love, but will actually bring eternal death[22]. Eternal death is experienced in a place that is as far opposite from heaven as is possible - -hell[23]. This place is described by God as a pit of fire, a place where the devil and death are going to be placed on the final Day of Judgment[24]. This option includes being judged by God as sinful and unholy and, therefore, as ones who have chosen the ways of the devil, belong where the devil is judged to go[25].
God has chosen to reveal Who He Is through the lives and actual historical events of people, particularly in a people who came to be known as Israelites, descendents of Abraham and Sarah[26]. The history of the People of God, their successes and failures (which depended upon their personal and faithful relationship with God)[27] are recorded for us in the Bible.
When the time was right[28], God Himself came down from heaven, in the Person of Jesus Christ of Nazareth[29], born of Mary[30], a virgin Israelite, who was betrothed to a man named Joseph.[31]
Jesus Christ, the Messiah[32], The Word of God[33], Who Always Was and Is and Always Will Be[34], willingly left heaven, emptied and humbled Himself and came into the world as a vulnerable baby[35], born to a young Jewish woman, Mary[36], who consented to this most amazing thing. "Let it be unto me," she said, believing the angel's message[37]. Her fiancé, Joseph, too, agreed to this arrangement and consented to continue the engagement and to take her as his wife and raise this Holy Child, the Son of God[38].
One day, the Holy Spirit "overshadowed" Mary and she became pregnant, "with child". She was a virgin, which means that she did not have sex with her fiancé, nor with any man, and yet she became pregnant through and by the power of God. This unique Child, was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. This Child, was named Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.
http://faithfulchristianlaity.org/virgin_birth.htm
SOLA GRATIA.
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FaithLikeARock
Let the human mind loose.
So you basically just admitted she wasn't married.
You know SOF, you should at least retain some consistency. You pretty much just out right lied to my face and called it a fact given by God. In some countries that would be considered a big heresy. Except I believe in forgiveness so I'll get over it. That said, it still doesn't address my complaint about your logic.
The virgin birth was also a demonstration of the spiritual marriage between God and His people. God would not impregnate a woman knowing how it could affect her life and not even give that meaning more than "you're my puppet to further my plan". He thinks so much more of us than that. Revelations tells us that God will marry the Church (capital C, to signify the people in it and not the building). But the Revelations describes the first coming and second coming, as a matter of fact. Meaning before Mary gave birth she was spiritually connected with God in a way similar to marriage.
However because God is, well, God, Joseph still married Mary to fill the space a spouse is meant to fill in those not called to celibacy.
You know SOF, you should at least retain some consistency. You pretty much just out right lied to my face and called it a fact given by God. In some countries that would be considered a big heresy. Except I believe in forgiveness so I'll get over it. That said, it still doesn't address my complaint about your logic.
The virgin birth was also a demonstration of the spiritual marriage between God and His people. God would not impregnate a woman knowing how it could affect her life and not even give that meaning more than "you're my puppet to further my plan". He thinks so much more of us than that. Revelations tells us that God will marry the Church (capital C, to signify the people in it and not the building). But the Revelations describes the first coming and second coming, as a matter of fact. Meaning before Mary gave birth she was spiritually connected with God in a way similar to marriage.
However because God is, well, God, Joseph still married Mary to fill the space a spouse is meant to fill in those not called to celibacy.
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Wrong.
Being betrothed in that culture was the same as being married. You had to have a certificate of divorce to "put her away". I am not lying to your face or any other part of you.
Jesus was perfect and holy. His miraculous conception and birth are awesome and holy. You can not put Jesus in the same category as a common bastard. Thank you.
The Creed of Athanasius
The Athanasian Creed is that latest of the ecumenical creeds, dating back to the early dark ages. Though seldom used in worship, it is one of the clearest definitions of the Trinity and the incarnation ever written.
Whosoever will be saved,
before all things it is is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.
Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled,
without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the Catholic Faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity
in Unity,
neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son,
and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one,
the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son,
and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate,
and the Holy Ghost uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible,
and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal,
and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals,
but one eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated,
but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty,
and the Holy Ghost Almighty.
And yet they are not three Almighties,
but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God,
and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods,
but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord,
and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords,
but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge ever y
Person by Himself to be both God and Lord,
so we are forbidden by the Catholic Religion, to say, there be three Gods,
or three Lords.
The Father is made of none,
neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone,
not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father [and of the Son],
neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons;
one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or l ess
than another;
but the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.
So that in all things, as is aforesaid,
the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved
must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation
that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ .
For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess,
that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds;
and Man, of the Substance of His Mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect Man,
of a reasonable soul in human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father, as touching His Godhead;
and inferior to the Father, as touching His Manhood.
Who, although He be God and Man,
yet He is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh,
but by taking of the Manhood into God;
One altogether; not by confusion of Substance,
but by unity of Person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man,
so God and Man is one Christ.
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell,
rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God
Almighty,
from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise with their bodies
and shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting;
and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully,
he cannot be saved.
Amen.before all things it is is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.
Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled,
without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the Catholic Faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity
in Unity,
neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son,
and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one,
the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son,
and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate,
and the Holy Ghost uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible,
and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal,
and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals,
but one eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated,
but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty,
and the Holy Ghost Almighty.
And yet they are not three Almighties,
but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God,
and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods,
but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord,
and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords,
but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge ever y
Person by Himself to be both God and Lord,
so we are forbidden by the Catholic Religion, to say, there be three Gods,
or three Lords.
The Father is made of none,
neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone,
not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father [and of the Son],
neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons;
one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or l ess
than another;
but the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.
So that in all things, as is aforesaid,
the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved
must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation
that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ .
For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess,
that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds;
and Man, of the Substance of His Mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect Man,
of a reasonable soul in human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father, as touching His Godhead;
and inferior to the Father, as touching His Manhood.
Who, although He be God and Man,
yet He is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh,
but by taking of the Manhood into God;
One altogether; not by confusion of Substance,
but by unity of Person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man,
so God and Man is one Christ.
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell,
rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God
Almighty,
from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise with their bodies
and shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting;
and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully,
he cannot be saved.
SOLA SCRIPTURA.
SOLA FIDE.
SOLA GRATIA.
SOLUS CHRISTUS.
SOLI DEO GLORIA.
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Shadowfax503
Regular Member
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SOF I guess you missed my question about the new CSA so I will repost it for you.
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
Having read this article, I must come to the conclusion that Cathy A. Bilher has said absolutely nothing.
On the very real possibility that I am wrong, Shield, could you summarize this article and explain why Bilher thinks that the virgin birth is so crucial to Jesus' identity?
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
I fear we've been sidetracked here, Shield, and would like to draw your attention back to this part of the thread, if at all possible:
Granted, there is a connection here -- certainly we have to at least discuss the source of these laws if we're going to get into the reasoning behind them.
However, I think we're both going to have to concede that we are not going to agree on this point: You believe they came from God; I believe they came from men who then attributed them to God.
I understand your belief; but history seems to disagree -- after all, men came up with many of the same rules on their own; look at the non-Judeo/Christian cultures who figured out a code of laws similar to the Hebrews.
The Babylonians, the Sumerians, the Egyptians, etc... they hardly needed Moses to tell them that "Don't kill each other, don't rape each other, and don't steal from each other," were good ideas to put down.
The notion that civilization couldn't have existed without GOD (I assume here you mean the GOD of the Bible) is belied by the very existence of the foreign nations mentioned in the Bible -- and none of them self-destructed. (indeed, most of them were far more of ta threat to the Hebrews than they were to themselves)
For example, the Babylonians were no followers of GOD, but they had a strong enough nation to hand the Hebrews' posteriors to them -- twice, IIRC.
Now, if you wanted to get more specific, and say that the Hebrews wouldv'e killed each other to the last man had it not been for God's intervention, I would agree with you, based on the book of Exodus. Here we see an entire nation of people going from years -- generations even -- of slavery to complete freedom practically overnight.
That's a sure recipe for Anarchy, and if someone (you say it was God, and I won't argue the point here) hadn't stepped in and laid down some ground rules, they most likely would've disintegrated right then and there -- to say nothing abou their long trip through the desert.
(On a side note, you think Moses was ever tempted to write in an 11th Commandment on his own: "Thou shalt stop asking, 'Are we there yet?' For the last time, NO!")
And I'm certainly not asking you to abandon GOD, and I have no interest in trying to "prove" He doesn't exist, nto to you or anyone else. My only position here is that GOD did not write those laws -- and even that is irrelevent, since, for the sake of this discussion, I'll work under the premise that God did write them.
Actually, I fully understand how important the "WHO" is -- but I hope that we can agree that at least one of the purposes of the Law -- Keeping the newly-liberated Hebrews from going at each others' throats -- was a good one even if it hadn't come from God.
I've got no problem with strange; I'm only glad it's still civil.
SCIENTIA EST POTENTIA.
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Shadowfax, howdy.
I said this once before, but here goes again. Anyone could leave the C.S.A. any time they wanted to. There would be no 'Iron Curtain' there. If you didn't like it, leave it. Simple.
However, the laws would be fixed and if they broke them, they'd pay the price like anyone else. If they committed murder, rape, homosexuality, abortion...ect., they'd be put to death. That simple.
Once again, I also gave a fairly lengthy answer to the "cast the first stone" question.
You could look back in this thread or just know this. The whole thing was a SET UP! They were trying to set Jesus up. REMEMBER that they dragged the woman alone to Him. Where was the man??? Where was he???
The Word tells us that they had caught her in the 'very act' of adultery. Where was the man??? Where was he???
Jesus could not BY THE LAW have her killed. First because they were under Roman law; second, because it was wrong. They had to bring the man and the woman to Him, in order to have Him pronounce the sentence of death.
Jesus did exactly what He should have done. HOWEVER, if they would have brought the man, and they were not under Roman rule at the time; Jesus would have been the first one to cast the stone!!! He was still under the Old Covenant and He never would have broken the law! EVER! He could not! HE IS GOD, AND IT IS HIS OWN LAW.
SOLA GRATIA.
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
Your response is simple and to the point, for which we thank you.
However, and this may be the part were things are murky, it's the "etc.," that concerns most people.
When dealing with capital offenses, it helps to be as specific as possible, and "etc." is a little too vague for comfort.
What exactly is "etc."? That's the issue.
As you must be well aware of, the Old Testament has literally hundreds of laws, and the penalty for breaking most of them is death.
Follow a false God? Death.
Work on the Sabbath? Death.
Disrespect the town priest? Death.
Gay man? Death (note that the Bible carries no death penalty for female homosexuality. Why do you suppose that is?)
Now, there are people who are opposed to the death penalty under any circumstances, but even those who are in favor of capital punishment agree that it should be reserved for only the most heinous of crimes.
Although I'm no fan of the Death Penalty (having seen too many cases where it has been wrongfully applied), I can agree, on an emotional visceral level, that rapists, child molesters, and serial killers deserve to die. In an infallible justice system, I'd have no problem with consigning them to this fate.
But the Bible commands death for offenses which seem trival, even non-issues, in a postmodern, 21st century world. Working on a Saturday is a capital crime? Can a 21-century society even function, let alone compete, economically under such a strain?
I think we would all understand it a lot better if you gave a little more detail about the "etc." under which people will be put to death in your C.S.A.
Not because our own opinion matters -- I, for one, would never choose to live in the C.S.A., and feel confident nobody else in this discussion would either -- but what about the people you expect to have? Are they aware of precisely what they're getting involved in?
They just might start leaving in droves, leaving your C.S.A. in a bad spot. Unless you did something to stem the exodus, you might find yourself overlord of a depopulated state.
"Rule our land, you know you have the power, but rule a land of the living, not a wasteland. Ship and towered city are nothing, stripped of men alive within it, living as one." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex.
Once again, I also gave a fairly lengthy answer to the "cast the first stone" question.
You could look back in this thread or just know this. The whole thing was a SET UP! They were trying to set Jesus up. REMEMBER that they dragged the woman alone to Him. Where was the man??? Where was he???
Suppose the man dove out the bedroom window and eleuded pursuit. Would it still be a setup?
Does it matter?
Roman Law supercedes God's law?
Does this work if the crime is changed? Two people commit a murder, and one escapes, does that mean that the other one cannot be punished?
Based on?
HIS OWN LAW -- meaning He has the power to apply it or NOT apply it as He sees fit, correct?
If you want to insist that God's hands were tied by the laws of the Pagan Romans, that's your business. I wouldn't want to be the one to tell God -- or His Son -- what they can, cannot, must, or must not do with their own laws.
SCIENTIA POTENTIA EST.
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not gonna work buddy.Shadowfax, howdy.
I said this once before, but here goes again. Anyone could leave the C.S.A. any time they wanted to. There would be no 'Iron Curtain' there. If you didn't like it, leave it. Simple.
However, the laws would be fixed and if they broke them, they'd pay the price like anyone else. If they committed murder, rape, homosexuality, abortion...ect., they'd be put to death. That simple.
Once again, I also gave a fairly lengthy answer to the "cast the first stone" question.
You could look back in this thread or just know this. The whole thing was a SET UP! They were trying to set Jesus up. REMEMBER that they dragged the woman alone to Him. Where was the man??? Where was he???
The Word tells us that they had caught her in the 'very act' of adultery. Where was the man??? Where was he???
Jesus could not BY THE LAW have her killed. First because they were under Roman law; second, because it was wrong. They had to bring the man and the woman to Him, in order to have Him pronounce the sentence of death.
Jesus did exactly what He should have done. HOWEVER, if they would have brought the man, and they were not under Roman rule at the time; Jesus would have been the first one to cast the stone!!! He was still under the Old Covenant and He never would have broken the law! EVER! He could not! HE IS GOD, AND IT IS HIS OWN LAW.
SOLA GRATIA.
ever.
We pray you see the light someday.
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FaithLikeARock
Let the human mind loose.
Source? I highly doubt being betrothed was the same as marriage because then marriage would be a useless ceremony.
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TheNewWorldMan
phased plasma rifle in 40-watt range
And this is the root of the questions that SoF has steadfastly refused to answer (and cut-and-paste of Scripture is not an answer), even though it has been put to him at least four or five times. So here we go again:
1. Would SoF enforce all of OT law in its entirety? This should be answerable by a simple yes or no, as either CSA law = OT law, or CSA law ≠ OT law. It's either-or.
2. If the answer to question #1 is no, then what would be the differences between CSA law and OT law, and on what basis and authority does SoF disobey orders and deviate from OT law?
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Gremlins
Regular Member
Looks like, if you want to be a Christian country, you might have to revise the anti-communism bit of your opening statement:
[quote="Acts 4:32-37] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.[/quote]
Looks pretty left-wing to me. Of course, like the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" bit, I'm sure you have some mental acrobatics to get around this.
[quote="Acts 4:32-37] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.[/quote]
Looks pretty left-wing to me. Of course, like the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" bit, I'm sure you have some mental acrobatics to get around this.
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Shadowfax503
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John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
What I take from this passage is not that Jesus could not by the law have condemned her but that he showed grace to her. Wether the man was there or not she was caught in the act of adultery. This was punishable by death. And the Sanhedrin did put people to death by stoning.(ie.Stephen) Jesus knowing that he is being tested does not dispute the law or try to wiggle around it he simply states the question who here is any better than her? The Jews knew all to well that breaking just one of Gods law was equal to breaking them all and in Gods eyes they all were condemned to death. I would love to know what he wrote but John does not tell us; however between what he said and wrote all the accusers of this woman were convicted of their own sin and left her alone. Jesus being the God man was left there with her. He could have and had every right to stone her on the spot but chose to forgive her. It is not breaking the "Law" to show mercy and forgiveness even under the old testament.
If we are to be a follower of Jesus then we should follow his example; Jesus forgave people all the time. The people he called snakes were the religious leaders who were forcing a heavy burden of legalism and following the laws on everyone else. Yes Jesus did follow the law but he also did not condemn people who made a mistake.
God HATES sin! Period end of discussion!
God LOVES us enough to DIE for us so we do not have to pay the price of sin. We have a just and loving God. He requires a death payment for any sin and yet he chose to pay that himself.
The old saying hate the sin and love the sinner is so true but we (myself included) tend to throw the baby out with the bath water.
We are called to be salt and light to a sick and dark world. That means we have to be in the middle of the sick and twisted and immoral helping and showing that there is hope and help and love and peace. We are called to be ambassadors of God just like Jesus. He spent his time with the people most of us would never be around.
I have to say from what I understand of the new CSA I just do not see Jesus in it. I see "Christians" putting up walls to keep all the sinners out. That is how I see what you are saying. If I am wrong please explain how the CSA would show Jesus to sinners?
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You are wrong because your premise is wrong.
Here is your answer, it is in a form of a question.
Is it lawful and just to commit murder right now in APRIL 2, 2008; in the sight of GOD?
Opps! You're hosed New World Man!!!
It is still SIN to commit murder: why is that? Opps!
Here is holy Scripture that applies to us right this very second, it is from the New Testament:
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. --Romans 13
Opps! You are now 2x's hosed!
The government does not cut peoples heads off in vain. The government is "God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."
YEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAW!!!
You have your answer.
SOLA FIDE.
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