Creating a New Nation! The New C.S.A. (2)

[Nathan Poe]

Are you ignorant of what we are talking about? Statism is where people put all their trust in the government to take care of them and dedication and belief that the government can fix everything.

Sounds exactly like what SoF is proposing here.

Its exactly what you guys love.

Say what?

Freedom from government regulation.

Too bad -- SoF's government proposes to regulate every single aspect of your life -- you think he's going to leave your money alone?

The government shouldn't be part of the church, this is what Thomas Jefferson meant.

The Church shouldn't be part of government either, this is what the Consitution means.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

[sigh]

Where do these "death Christians"come from in the U.S.? I'm coming over there next fall and I just wonder if I'll run into them often there... hopefully not?

We are not 'death Christians'. Brother, you don't live here. You don't see the absolute filth we do. You don't see the crime we do. If you did you'd understand why we are advocating CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

There are some serious desperados around here. You don't see the destruction that the gangs do around here. You don't see these things so you are wondering why folks like me and USMC4Life are saying these things.

One church I was going to last year had one of our pastors' kids shot dead. His son was going to a wedding with his friend. His friend went into the gas station to pay the bill and he was just sitting in the car. A gang-banger walked up to the window and shot him, one round right in the right temple. Bye bye. His life snuffed out at 20 years old. Why? He was wearing the wrong color.

So don't give me these mamby pansy stories about how we should be loving and ....whatever. When your whole church is in morning from a senseless shotting like this; then come tell me love, love, liberal yadda yadda.

I have so many of these stories my hands will fall off if I tried to type them all. Brother, we are not 'death Christians'. We are men who are tired of all the murder, rape, kidnapping, sin....ect.. There is too much of it going on around here. We want to stop it and get this place back on track.

Or, it would be cool to start from scratch and create a New Nation. One that would give the option to said criminals of their choice of execution. We'd give them the choice of hanging, firing squad, guillotine, electric chair, the gas chamber, or lethal injection. <=== now that is choice!!!

The New Nation I speak of would be ruled with love and a strong criminal justice system. These murderers would not get away with it. They would pay for their crimes with their lives. This has no effect on Messiahs' sacrifice on the cross. HE still has the power to forgive sins. HE also has given power and authority to earthly governments to exercise Capital Punishment. So we should have an effective criminal justice system that works.

Unfortunately the left in this country have sabotaged our criminal justice system so bad that it can not function efficiently. Even if we do exercise Capital Punishment, it takes 20 years to get it through.

This is wrong and evil. God said you take them right after the trial and stone them. You don't wait 20 years to kill them. As soon as the trial is over, you execute them. You get rid of the evil quick.

So my brother, we are not mean or bad. We are Christians who see the evil and know how to get rid of it. We are Christians who want to see our neighbors protected from all this violent crime.

Come here and live for a while and you'd see what we are talking about. A few years here and you'd be running toward the New C.S.A..

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

I'm sorry but, where would you put the MILLIONS of gays before executing them?

I mean, this wouldn't be a few hangings a day -- there'd need to be a mass execution to get rid of all the 'deviants'. Mass executions. Mass graves. And homosexual conscripts to dig the graves.


Also, answer the question -- would a widowed wife be FORCED to marry her deceased husband's brother as COMMANDED in the OT?

If so, don't you think that is a bit much?

Also, another question, would a twelve year-old caught with heroin be executed as the Bible prescribes?

Answer the questions if you arent' afraid SoF.



---------

a million homosexuals + a million drug addicts = 2 million people that would be hanged if CSA was real.

2 million people, dead.

how is that NOT genocide?!

Just because the Bible says its okay to exterminate millions of people DOESNT make it right, even though the Bible DOES NOT PRESCRIBE THE DEATH OF ANYONE! It prescribes forgiveness as apart of justice.

If you are talking about the U.S., then yes there would be millions of people being executed for these kinds of crimes. But if you are speaking of the New C.S.A., then no. Once again if you were starting a New Nation, and from the get go, you told people that there was going to be Capital Punishment for crimes like murder, rape, kidnapping, homosexuality...ect.. Then these kinds of people would not being flocking to your New Nation.

Even if the U.S. were to get right with GOD and correct our criminal justice system and add homosexuality to the list of Capital Offenses; it would still not be genocide. It would be a criminal justice system that would be executing criminals for their crimes. Necrophilia, Homosexuality, Pedophilia, Abortion, Murder, Rape, Kidnapping, would all now be under Capital Offenses.

It would make for a safer, kinder, more loving country. A country where you wouldn't have to worry about your children walking down the street.

A STRONG CRIMINAL JUSTICES SYSTEM, AND CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

It's what's for a safe and sane country.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

 

[Suomipoika]

ShieldOFaith, take a look at these sites:

http://www.desertstream.org/

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rossuk/h-exgay.htm

They are full of testimonies of people who say they used to be practicing homosexuals but then God changed them.

In the thumbnail picture you see people who are either themselves homosexuals who believe in Jesus and want to change or fellow Christians who are fellowshipping with them, trying to help them in their process.

If these followers of Christ came to your "CSA", and you were equipped with a Bible and a shotgun and given the chance to do as you will, would rather you shoot them dead in the name of Christ or bless them in the name of Christ?

 

[Nathan Poe]

If you are talking about the U.S., then yes there would be millions of people being executed for these kinds of crimes. But if you are speaking of the New C.S.A., then no. Once again if you were starting a New Nation, and from the get go, you told people that there was going to be Capital Punishment for crimes like murder, rape, kidnapping, homosexuality...ect.. Then these kinds of people would not being flocking to your New Nation.

No, these are the people who would already be present in your new nation, unwilling to leave at the behest of a tinhorn despot with delusions of grandeur.

Even if the U.S. were to get right with GOD and correct our criminal justice system and add homosexuality to the list of Capital Offenses; it would still not be genocide. It would be a criminal justice system that would be executing criminals for their crimes. Necrophilia, Homosexuality, Pedophilia, Abortion, Murder, Rape, Kidnapping, would all now be under Capital Offenses.

As would disobedience, heresy, Atheism, and working on the Sabbath.

If you're going to kill sinners, Shield, don't get all limp-wristed on us now. Follow God's commandments completely or don't bother.

It would make for a safer, kinder, more loving country. A country where you wouldn't have to worry about your children walking down the street.

I would worry every day about my children walking down the street. Does the Bible not say that the sins of the fathers are passed onto the sons?

If you hang a sinner/criminal, wouldn't you also have no choice but to hang his family, to insure the sinful influence does not spread?

A STRONG CRIMINAL JUSTICES SYSTEM, AND CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

It's what's for a safe and sane country.

Nothing about the C.S.A. implies saftely or sanity.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

IESVS NAZARENVS REX IVDAEORVM.

Remember what a strong criminal justice system and capital punishment did for this guy.

 

[Shadowfax503]

WOW! The South is going to rise again I guess with the new CSA.

Well being as I live by Gettysburg PA and have walked the hallowed grounds of that great battlefield many times. I sure hope the CSA stays something of the past.

As for homosexuals and adulterers and sinners in general. I am just as much a sinner as anyone of them. I have sinned in the past have sinned today and will in the future. What I am due is wrath from a "Holy" God. I have no excuse, no alibi, no way to justify to God what I have done.
I can only point to Jesus and what he has done for me. I can not see where God would want us to condemn his children to death for sin when he himself came here to die so we could have a relationship with him. Is it not better to reach out to the lost and give them a hand up and a shoulder to lean on? Jesus himself was almost always to be found with the so called "sinners" and the only people he ever really got angry with were the "religious" leaders. I am a Christian, and as that I see my faith as a personal relationship with God not following all the rules of the "religion".

As far as our government goes, we Americans have a very good form of government not the best and by far not the worst. We have drifted far from what our founding fathers had in mind but still hold true to the core system of personal liberty and personal responsibility. God gave us free will and we have a government that follows that as close as it can. If we as a a nation chose not to follow God than we will suffer the effects of those choices, but it is not the government job to make that decision. That choice is to be made by every single person in this nation. It is a personal choice to follow God not a mandated one.

I feel where the "right wing" makes its biggest mistake is not in stating what is wrong and how we should be living as Christians but in trying to force it with laws. If they want to make a change to this nation do what the apostles did and start at home then the neighborhood then grow it up.

Revival starts in the hearts of the people not the laws of the land.

Anyway thats my 2 cents worth.

 

[Nathan Poe]

WOW! The South is going to rise again I guess with the new CSA.

Well being as I live by Gettysburg PA and have walked the hallowed grounds of that great battlefield many times. I sure hope the CSA stays something of the past.

Let's hope so, if for no other reason than real estate concerns -- the C.S.A.'s "Potter's Field" will probably outgrow both Gettysburg and Arlington within the first six months.

As for homosexuals and adulterers and sinners in general. I am just as much a sinner as anyone of them. I have sinned in the past have sinned today and will in the future. What I am due is wrath from a "Holy" God. I have no excuse, no alibi, no way to justify to God what I have done.
I can only point to Jesus and what he has done for me.

Alas, in the C.S.A., this is not enough to save you from hanging.

I wonder, when SoF realizes he can't eradicate sin within his own borders, how long before he blames the C.S.A.'s failure on foreign influences? When will he mount an invasion of the US as part of his "War on Sin"?

 

[DrStrangelove]

Let's hope so, if for no other reason than real estate concerns -- the C.S.A.'s "Potter's Field" will probably outgrow both Gettysburg and Arlington within the first six months.



Alas, in the C.S.A., this is not enough to save you from hanging.

I wonder, when SoF realizes he can't eradicate sin within his own borders, how long before he blames the C.S.A.'s failure on foreign influences? When will he mount an invasion of the US as part of his "War on Sin"?

...

Lebensraum?

 

[Nathan Poe]

...

Lebensraum?

I was thinking more of pre-emptive strikes in the name of "Self-defense" or "Spiritual purity," or some other self-serving nonsense.

 

[DrStrangelove]

I was thinking more of pre-emptive strikes in the name of "Self-defense" or "Spiritual purity," or some other self-serving nonsense.

Aha! So basically Israeli war tactics with Crusader reasoning. Gotcha.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Aha! So basically Israeli war tactics with Crusader reasoning. Gotcha.

Not exactly. The Israelis can justify their tactics -- they do live under constant imminent threat from all sides.

If they play rough, they have good reason to. Think more Spanish Inquisition tactics with Crusader reasoning.

 

[mpok1519]

We are not 'death Christians'. Brother, you don't live here. You don't see the absolute filth we do. You don't see the crime we do. If you did you'd understand why we are advocating CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

There are some serious desperados around here. You don't see the destruction that the gangs do around here. You don't see these things so you are wondering why folks like me and USMC4Life are saying these things.

One church I was going to last year had one of our pastors' kids shot dead. His son was going to a wedding with his friend. His friend went into the gas station to pay the bill and he was just sitting in the car. A gang-banger walked up to the window and shot him, one round right in the right temple. Bye bye. His life snuffed out at 20 years old. Why? He was wearing the wrong color.

So don't give me these mamby pansy stories about how we should be loving and ....whatever. When your whole church is in morning from a senseless shotting like this; then come tell me love, love, liberal yadda yadda.

I have so many of these stories my hands will fall off if I tried to type them all. Brother, we are not 'death Christians'. We are men who are tired of all the murder, rape, kidnapping, sin....ect.. There is too much of it going on around here. We want to stop it and get this place back on track.

Or, it would be cool to start from scratch and create a New Nation. One that would give the option to said criminals of their choice of execution. We'd give them the choice of hanging, firing squad, guillotine, electric chair, the gas chamber, or lethal injection. <=== now that is choice!!!

The New Nation I speak of would be ruled with love and a strong criminal justice system. These murderers would not get away with it. They would pay for their crimes with their lives. This has no effect on Messiahs' sacrifice on the cross. HE still has the power to forgive sins. HE also has given power and authority to earthly governments to exercise Capital Punishment. So we should have an effective criminal justice system that works.

Unfortunately the left in this country have sabotaged our criminal justice system so bad that it can not function efficiently. Even if we do exercise Capital Punishment, it takes 20 years to get it through.

This is wrong and evil. God said you take them right after the trial and stone them. You don't wait 20 years to kill them. As soon as the trial is over, you execute them. You get rid of the evil quick.

So my brother, we are not mean or bad. We are Christians who see the evil and know how to get rid of it. We are Christians who want to see our neighbors protected from all this violent crime.

Come here and live for a while and you'd see what we are talking about. A few years here and you'd be running toward the New C.S.A..

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

people die and get shot all the time; sometimes its the police doing the murdering, sometimes its the gangbangers, sometimes its the teorrorist with the bomb, sometimes its kids with guns, sometimes its the star quarterback who rapes and murders his girlfriend, sometimes it the president's daughter smoking crack in the back seat of the pimp's ride, and sometimes its the mother of three who poisons her husband, sometimes its the crazy religious fanatic that goes and shotguns a drug dealer, sometimes it the man with the dog and the robber, sometimes its the vet that puts that dog down, sometimes its the drunk driver, sometimes its the sober driver on the cell phone, sometimes its the antidepressants that drive one to suicide, sometimes its the child rapist, sometimes its the mother of an unborn child.

And it to be the govt's job to kill everyone that makes you paranoid.

-------------------


Again, answer my other question if you're not afraid;

in the CSA, would a widowed wife be FORCED to marry her brother-in-law?

---------------

 

[Nathan Poe]

And it to be the govt's job to kill everyone that makes you paranoid.

Now THERE's a definition of genocide...

Again, answer my other question if you're not afraid;

in the CSA, would a widowed wife be FORCED to marry her brother-in-law?

---------------

Of course she must -- otherwise she'd be hanged.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

We are not 'death Christians'. Brother, you don't live here. You don't see the absolute filth we do. You don't see the crime we do. If you did you'd understand why we are advocating CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

There are some serious desperados around here. You don't see the destruction that the gangs do around here. You don't see these things so you are wondering why folks like me and USMC4Life are saying these things.

One church I was going to last year had one of our pastors' kids shot dead. His son was going to a wedding with his friend. His friend went into the gas station to pay the bill and he was just sitting in the car. A gang-banger walked up to the window and shot him, one round right in the right temple. Bye bye. His life snuffed out at 20 years old. Why? He was wearing the wrong color.

You're moving the goalposts again. Advocacy of capital punishment for murderers and child-rapists is not what is getting you labeled a psychopath and someone who wishes to carry out genocide. Some here disagree with capital punishment, yes, but few if anyone would label you a Nazi wannabe for supporting it.

Your advocacy of capital punishment for "crimes" like being disrespectful for parents, eating shellfish, and working on the Sabbath are what are getting the label of Hitler-wannabe applied to you. Don't try and duck and cover now and hide amongst those who are righteously angry at the senseless gang violence.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

WOW! The South is going to rise again I guess with the new CSA.

Well being as I live by Gettysburg PA and have walked the hallowed grounds of that great battlefield many times. I sure hope the CSA stays something of the past.

As for homosexuals and adulterers and sinners in general. I am just as much a sinner as anyone of them. I have sinned in the past have sinned today and will in the future. What I am due is wrath from a "Holy" God. I have no excuse, no alibi, no way to justify to God what I have done.
I can only point to Jesus and what he has done for me. I can not see where God would want us to condemn his children to death for sin when he himself came here to die so we could have a relationship with him. Is it not better to reach out to the lost and give them a hand up and a shoulder to lean on? Jesus himself was almost always to be found with the so called "sinners" and the only people he ever really got angry with were the "religious" leaders. I am a Christian, and as that I see my faith as a personal relationship with God not following all the rules of the "religion".

As far as our government goes, we Americans have a very good form of government not the best and by far not the worst. We have drifted far from what our founding fathers had in mind but still hold true to the core system of personal liberty and personal responsibility. God gave us free will and we have a government that follows that as close as it can. If we as a a nation chose not to follow God than we will suffer the effects of those choices, but it is not the government job to make that decision. That choice is to be made by every single person in this nation. It is a personal choice to follow God not a mandated one.

I feel where the "right wing" makes its biggest mistake is not in stating what is wrong and how we should be living as Christians but in trying to force it with laws. If they want to make a change to this nation do what the apostles did and start at home then the neighborhood then grow it up.

Revival starts in the hearts of the people not the laws of the land.

Anyway thats my 2 cents worth.

That is all well and good brother. I see that you have 1 son and 2 daughters. How would you feel if John Wayne Gacy raped and murdered your son?

Gacy's wife divorced him in March 1976; the killings began in earnest the following month. Darrell Sampson disappeared on April 6, 1976. In 1977, David Daniel would state that Gacy offered him a ride at the bus depot, but Daniel refused. He further states that Gacy was very insistent, asking him seven times, offering marijuana as a lure.[7] Daniel is one of only two known survivors alive to describe Gacy's approach, the other being Jeffrey Ringall.
No suspicion fell on Gacy until December 12, 1978, when he was investigated following the disappearance of 15-year-old Robert Piest, who was last seen with Gacy. A search of his house, by Des Plaines detective Joseph Kozenczak, revealed a number of incriminating items related to other disappearances.
On December 22, 1978, Gacy went to his lawyers and confessed to 33 murders and indicated the location of 31 bodies to police — they were buried under his house and on his property. The two others he said were thrown into the nearby Des Plaines River. Gacy would often stick clothing in their mouths to muffle their screams. After he would choke them with a rope or a board as he sexually assaulted them. Gacy would also keep the bodies with him for as long as decomposition would allow. He picked up at least one of his victims at the bus station. The youngest identified victims were Samuel Stapleton and Michael Marino, both 14 years old; the oldest were Russell Nelson and James Mazzara, both 21 years old. Nine of the victims were so badly decomposed that they were never identified. The bodies were uncovered from December 1978 until April 1979, when the last known victim was found downstream in the Des Plaines river. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy



Please don't tell me that you would not want him dead. I would have a very hard time believing you.



This man is why GOD said this:



[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]16 'But if he strikes him with an iron implement, so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 17 And if he strikes him with a stone in the hand, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 18 Or if he strikes him with a wooden hand weapon, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 19 The avenger of blood himself shall put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death. 20 If he pushes him out of hatred or, while lying in wait, hurls something at him so that he dies, 21 or in enmity he strikes him with his hand so that he dies, the one who struck him shall surely be put to death. He is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when he meets him. --Num. 35[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]GOD, Father, Son, Holy Spirit said these words. GOD is smart. GOD knows what He is doing. GOD has a reason behind this passage. It is a good reason. It is perfect.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]GOD is perfect and His Word is perfect.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The state of Illinois killed this vile animal May 10, 1994. It was a very good thing. A very good thing indeed.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Capital Punishment is holy and righteous when done in accordance with scripture. Holy righteous and good.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]SOLI DEO GLORIA.
[/FONT]

 

[DrStrangelove]

That is all well and good brother. I see that you have 1 son and 2 daughters. How would you feel if John Wayne Gacy raped and murdered your son?

Gacy's wife divorced him in March 1976; the killings began in earnest the following month. Darrell Sampson disappeared on April 6, 1976. In 1977, David Daniel would state that Gacy offered him a ride at the bus depot, but Daniel refused. He further states that Gacy was very insistent, asking him seven times, offering marijuana as a lure.[7] Daniel is one of only two known survivors alive to describe Gacy's approach, the other being Jeffrey Ringall.
No suspicion fell on Gacy until December 12, 1978, when he was investigated following the disappearance of 15-year-old Robert Piest, who was last seen with Gacy. A search of his house, by Des Plaines detective Joseph Kozenczak, revealed a number of incriminating items related to other disappearances.
On December 22, 1978, Gacy went to his lawyers and confessed to 33 murders and indicated the location of 31 bodies to police — they were buried under his house and on his property. The two others he said were thrown into the nearby Des Plaines River. Gacy would often stick clothing in their mouths to muffle their screams. After he would choke them with a rope or a board as he sexually assaulted them. Gacy would also keep the bodies with him for as long as decomposition would allow. He picked up at least one of his victims at the bus station. The youngest identified victims were Samuel Stapleton and Michael Marino, both 14 years old; the oldest were Russell Nelson and James Mazzara, both 21 years old. Nine of the victims were so badly decomposed that they were never identified. The bodies were uncovered from December 1978 until April 1979, when the last known victim was found downstream in the Des Plaines river. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy



Please don't tell me that you would not want him dead. I would have a very hard time believing you.



This man is why GOD said this:



[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]16 'But if he strikes him with an iron implement, so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 17 And if he strikes him with a stone in the hand, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 18 Or if he strikes him with a wooden hand weapon, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 19 The avenger of blood himself shall put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death. 20 If he pushes him out of hatred or, while lying in wait, hurls something at him so that he dies, 21 or in enmity he strikes him with his hand so that he dies, the one who struck him shall surely be put to death. He is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when he meets him. --Num. 35[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]GOD, Father, Son, Holy Spirit said these words. GOD is smart. GOD knows what He is doing. GOD has a reason behind this passage. It is a good reason. It is perfect.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]GOD is perfect and His Word is perfect.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The state of Illinois killed this vile animal May 10, 1994. It was a very good thing. A very good thing indeed.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Capital Punishment is holy and righteous when done in accordance with scripture. Holy righteous and good.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]SOLI DEO GLORIA.
[/FONT]

...

Listen.
To.
Us.


We don't care if you want to kill a rapist or a murderer. We really don't. That's all fine & good. Fry the bastard if you can prove s/he did it.

Our problem comes in when you want to kill people for utterly stupid things. There's not reason to kill someone for being gay.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Again, answer my other question if you're not afraid;

in the CSA, would a widowed wife be FORCED to marry her brother-in-law?

---------------

Read this VERY VERY CAREFULLY!!! Then you may understand my position.

VII. THE APPLICATION OF GOD'S LAW TO CIVIL JUSTICE
In order to more fully comprehend the issue at hand, it is important to understand the historical divisions of God's law. To aid our understanding, God's law has been divided into three categories: moral, civil, and ceremonial. This division is found in our Westminster Confession, chapter 19. The moral law is summarized in the 10 commandments and are, without question, applicable to the believer today (see WCF 19:2,5,6,7).
The ceremonial law was designed to be applied only in the shadows of the Old Covenant, since those bloody ceremonies served as sign posts pointing to the One whose blood would take away sin. The bloody rituals of the Old Covenant have been replaced by bloodless signs of baptism and the Lord's Supper in the New Covenant. The bloody signs of the Old Covenant pointed to a savior to come. The bloodless signs of the New Covenant point back to the savior who has come. It would not be accurate, however, to say that these ceremonial laws are abolished. They still teach us the principle that God requires a substitutionary blood sacrifice in order to forgive sins. For example, if you are traveling from Monroe to Jackson on I-20, the signs informing you of the number of miles to Jackson are very helpful. Once you arrive in Jackson, however, you no longer need those signs. They have served their purpose. They still apply to those traveling to Jackson and they still serve to remind you of where you were and the distance you have traveled.
The third category of the law is the judicial category and this is where the bulk of the controversy lies. The question is as follows: Are the judicial and penal sanctions in the law of Moses applicable to the Civil Magistrate today? The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 19:4 states: "To them (Israel) also as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws which expired together with the state of that people; not obliging any other now, further than the general equity thereof may require.
Although this statement from our Confession seems hopelessly confusing, a bit of careful thinking should clear the fog. First, it CANNOT mean that it is God's intent for the judicial law not to be applied at all. This would mean that the State is not under God in any way and implies that the Bible has nothing to say at all about penal justice. This is absolutely unconscionable and I cannot understand how any Christian could advocate such a monstrous position.
Besides, this interpretation of 19:4 is radically inconsistent with the Westminster Standards in other places. In the original version of the WCF, chapter 23, pertaining to the Civil Magistrate, one of the duties outlined by the Westminster Divines for the Civil Magistrate was that he is responsible to see that "all blasphemies and heresies be suppressed."
Although this provision was deleted in the late 1700's in the American version of the WCF, it is interesting to note that WLC question 108 (citing Deut. 7:5) was left intact. "The duties required in the Second Commandment are...disapproving, detesting, opposing all false worship; and according to one's place and calling, removing it and all monuments of idolatry."
There is an interesting historical vignette helpful to our discussion on the relationship between the Westminster Confession and Theonomy. According to the book, Minutes of the Sessions of the Westminster Assembly, p. 211, discussing the debate on Chapter 20, Of Christian Liberty and the Liberty of Conscience, the wording originally passed by the Assembly was "under the gospel consists, especially in freedom from the guilt and power of sin...from the ceremonial and judicial law..." The phrase: "freedom from the yoke of the ceremonial law was moved to a point later in the section. For the purpose of our discussion, however, the important point is that any mention of being free from the judicial law was excised altogether and never appeared in the WCF. (Thanks to Bill Anderson for this information). This means, that as a result of the debate at the Assembly, the Divines determined that the Christian was not free from the claims of the judicial law!
There is also a "theonomic flavor" in Larger Catechism, question 191, which asks: "What do we pray for in the second petition?
Part of the answer reads: "...the Church furnished with all gospel officers and ordinances, purged from corruption, countenanced and maintained by the civil magistrate: that the ordinances of Christ be purely dispensed... Thus, the Civil Magistrate has a role in protecting the true Church and keeping her pure. Reformed Presbyterians opposed to theonomy, must, in order to maintain integrity, take exceptions to these provisions in our Standards.
Secondly, if the judicial laws no longer apply in any way, how could any civil magistrate do his duty according to Romans 13? Romans 13:4 teaches us that it is the duty of the Civil Magistrate to be an avenger of God's wrath on the one who practices evil. How is a Civil Magistrate to carry out this duty without an absolute standard of what is good and evil? Without biblical judicial law, it is up to the magistrate himself to determine what is good or evil. The magistrate or legislative body must then arbitrarily determine the punishment for criminal behavior. Thus, King James I of England applied the death penalty for pickpocketing. An abandonment of theonomy leads to arbitrariness, tyranny and uneven punishment. Although Old Testament law has an unjustified reputation of being harsh, a theonomic ethic actually serves to protect citizens against tyrants run amuck. Thirdly, Christians must remember who wrote the judicial laws. They come from the mind of a perfectly good and just God.
God is perfectly fair. An abandonment of theonomy implies that man is wiser than God. It implies that God does not know what He is doing when it comes to civil law. Does any Christian really believe that better and more just laws can come from the minds of sinful, finite, fallen men? How absurd!! Christians who detest theonomy must understand that they are arguing against God.
Theonomists did not write those civil laws, God wrote each one of them. Theonomists believe the laws of God are wiser than men and at least are attempting to believe them and apply them.
The Westminster Divines employed the terms "general equity" because they understood that the Bible was written to apply to all cultures in all times. The case laws provide man with principles of justice that can be applied to all nations in all epochs. For example, Deuteronomy 22:8 requires a parapet to be built around the roof of a home. The theonomic position does NOT maintain that all houses today must have a guard rail constructed on the roof. We look for the general equity of the law. What is God teaching us in this statute? The general equity is a principle of safety. There are many modern applications, such as a requirement to build a fence around a swimming pool, lest a child wander in and drown. If someone owned a house with a flat roof and he entertained guests on the roof, the general equity would be, in that case, a literal application of the law.
To those who deny that the principles of the Old Testament civil code apply today, there is a question that must be answered. With what do you plan to replace God's law? Are the Republicans and Democrats more competent than the Almighty to draft just and righteous laws? Is fallen man better equipped than God to write laws which restrain crime and more efficiently govern people?
http://www.ipc.faithweb.com/documents/THEONOMY.htm


Read the whole article and maybe you'll fully understand.


I hope this clears things up for you.


SOLI DEO GLORIA.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

Read this VERY VERY CAREFULLY!!! Then you may understand my position.

Just answer the question. Would you or would you give those people a Zyklon-B shower like Old Testament law requires? If not, why spare them?

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

Theonomy. Learn it.

Straight answers. Give them.

 

[mpok1519]

I hope this clears things up for you.

forgive me, but im still a bit confused.

Would a woman be forced to marry her brother-in-law if her husband dies in the CSA?

In your words, please.