Cracker Barrel loses almost $100 million.

[RileyG]

But if your brand sells nostalgia, modernization defeats the point.

Agreed.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

All that has nothing to do with "woke". This is just a big corporation looking at the customer base aging up and asking how are we go to stay relevant. Some people dont like even a little change. But thats life. But making this out as a targeted assault on their cultural values is just hyperventilating nonsense.

I don't think their customer base aging out was of any immediate concern.

If the analysis numbers I'm looking a here are correct:
In 2023, only 43% of Cracker Barrel guests were aged 55 or older.

Cracker Barrel’s Q4 (ending July 29, 2023) earnings revealed a rise in visits from younger guests, particularly millennials (ages 25–34) and those aged 44–55. Their beer and wine offerings, and mobile payment options were cited as appealing factors.

During Q1 (ending October 28, 2023), the chain reported successful efforts to win back guests aged 65 and older, while also attracting younger customers and lower-income diners

Source: RestaurantBusinessOnline and TheTakeout


It doesn't always have to boil down to overt "values" per say... It doesn't have to be something as radical as the addition of a "Drag Queen Biscuits & Gravy Hour at your local Cracker Barrel". The removal of things that represented a vibe & culture they liked is enough to make patrons (evidently a lot of them) feel like the brand was turning their back on them (if that $100 million in losses is an accurate number)


Perhaps a good recent comparison would be some of the changes that Carnival Cruises made, that made certain customer bases feel like "what the heck? we were their bread & butter, and now they're trying become one of those boring cruises -- almost like they'd prefer to replace us with a different kind of clientele"

Have you seen it? Its still plenty country ish.

Eh...

Kind of the same as replacing Waylon Jennings with Rascal Flats and saying "what's the big deal, both are both "country ish"", and then wondering why people who love the former aren't thrilled about the replacement.

Disclaimer, not being a country fan, I don't know how good that comparison is...I asked google "Who are some country musicians who old school country fans think are legit, and who are some that they think are watered down posers"

 

[durangodawood]

I don't think their customer base aging out was of any immediate concern.

If the analysis numbers I'm looking a here are correct:
In 2023, only 43% of Cracker Barrel guests were aged 55 or older.

Cracker Barrel’s Q4 (ending July 29, 2023) earnings revealed a rise in visits from younger guests, particularly millennials (ages 25–34) and those aged 44–55. Their beer and wine offerings, and mobile payment options were cited as appealing factors.

Yep. Making changes to appeal to the younger set.

During Q1 (ending October 28, 2023), the chain reported successful efforts to win back guests aged 65 and older, while also attracting younger customers and lower-income diners

Source: RestaurantBusinessOnline and TheTakeout


It doesn't always have to boil down to overt "values" per say... It doesn't have to be something as radical as the addition of a "Drag Queen Biscuits & Gravy Hour at your local Cracker Barrel". The removal of things that represented a vibe & culture they liked is enough to make patrons (evidently a lot of them) feel like the brand was turning their back on them (if that $100 million in losses is an accurate number)


Perhaps a good recent comparison would be some of the changes that Carnival Cruises made, that made certain customer bases feel like "what the heck? we were their bread & butter, and now they're trying become one of those boring cruises -- almost like they'd prefer to replace us with a different kind of clientele"


Eh...

Kind of the same as replacing Waylon Jennings with Rascal Flats and saying "what's the big deal, both are both "country ish"", and then wondering why people who love the former aren't thrilled about the replacement.

Disclaimer, not being a country fan, I don't know how good that comparison is...I asked google "Who are some country musicians who old school country fans think are legit, and who are some that they think are watered down posers"

I'm not arguing that everyone should just shut up and like it. Some people wont like even minor changes. Cant argue with that. But this obviously is not the complete rebrand like some say. Its still sub mediocre southern country chain restaurant cooking just like always.

What I do find genuinely absurd and symbolic of our hypersensitive times is how some people are framing this as a targeted assault on their cultural values. Whoa. Take a breath, people.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Yep. Making changes to appeal to the younger set.

...but it sounds like they already accomplished that by adding beer, and I think it would be a mistake to assume that all young people (especially rural ones) by default would prefer their restaurant to look like Pier 1.

I'm not arguing that everyone should just shut up and like it. Some people wont like even minor changes. Cant argue with that. But this obviously is not the complete rebrand like some say. Its sub mediocre southern country chain restaurant cooking just like always.

What I do find genuinely absurd and symbolic of our hypersensitive times is how some people are framing this as a targeted assault on their cultural values. Whoa. Take a breath, people.

But it's the type of minor changes that are happening...

Rural America doesn't want the "vibe" of "their spot" to get "watered down" for the same reason the Seattle hipsters wouldn't want "the vibe" of "their coffee shops" getting watered down.


With regards to the over-sensitivity:
I suspect it's because it's happened before with brands that demographic has enjoyed who claimed "we just want to modernize and be approachable to for more people"


For some rural conservative folks thinking "I just wanna sit down, crack a bud light and watch the NASCAR race and some football"

And in fact, I know progressives don't like it when brands they perceived to be "their tribe" take a slightly different turn.

Are we forgetting the reactions that occurred when Musk bought Twitter, or when Mark Zuckerberg announced that Meta was going to shift more toward "the middle"? They acted like the sky was falling (despite those two platforms still being largely identical to what they were before, for the average day-to-day users)

 

[Chesterton]

Whenever you try to make the tent bigger, more people leave the tent.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Whenever you try to make the tent bigger, more people leave the tent.

It depends on the "tent expansion strategy" lol (to keep the tent thing going)


If the changes are things that both people inside and outside the tent agree on, then sure, those changes will bring more/new people in.


However, for certain "niche" things... the people already inside the tent have a threshold of "things you change, but I'll stay" that's much smaller than the requirements that would need to be met for people outside the tent to come in.

Meaning, for someone looking specifically for the "country'ish rustic vibe" any minor deviation from that is going to tick off the people off that were already in, but those minor changes aren't going to be enough to get new people in the door.



Here's perhaps an interesting comparison/analogy (I like to use those)

Anyone familiar with the old club called CBGB?

It was iconic in the punk rock scene. It was dirty, seedy, nasty, rough, unpredictable. They did a documentary about it called "They vomit and bleed on stage"


Even the slightest "reforms" to make it "a tad more mainstream and approachable" would've meant that their regular patrons would've seen it as "selling out to corporate culture", however, it would've taken a lot more than just "slight reforms" to make it a place where your average "square" would want to take his family to see a concert.

In a nutshell, it would've been a lot easier to lose your current customers than to gain new ones.


Obviously the cracker barrel situation isn't quite to that extreme, but overall dynamic is the same.

Making it look "a little more modern" and "getting rid of some of the 'Murica! and Jesus stuff in the gift shop" isn't going to be enough to get a wave of new metropolitan 20-somethings to go eat at cracker barrel...however, doing those things will (as we're seeing) be viewed a "middle finger" to their loyal existing customer base.

 

[BPPLEE]

Cracker Barrel Caves, Brings Back Classic Logo

Cracker Barrel caved Tuesday after receiving massive backlash, announcing it would bring back its classic logo, according to Fox's Bret Baier.

dailycaller.com

Looks like Cracker Barrel is backpedaling

 

[durangodawood]

...but it sounds like they already accomplished that by adding beer, and I think it would be a mistake to assume that all young people (especially rural ones) by default would prefer their restaurant to look like Pier 1.

Ok. So ,maybe the corporation made a mistake. Im not here to argue that the CB makeover is a good idea.

But it's the type of minor changes that are happening...

Rural America doesn't want the "vibe" of "their spot" to get "watered down" for the same reason the Seattle hipsters wouldn't want "the vibe" of "their coffee shops" getting watered down.

If people want their spot, they should patronize local places and not leave themselves vulnerable to the whims of publicly traded national companies whos interests are ultimate not theirs.

With regards to the over-sensitivity:
I suspect it's because it's happened before with brands that demographic has enjoyed who claimed "we just want to modernize and be approachable to for more people"

So because there was a "culture wars agenda" behind the Bud Light thing, now various people have lost their minds and see "woke" agenda everywhere - even where it obviously doesnt exist like in the Cracker Barrel makeover.

Youre not being kind to these people's judgement. Well, neither was I - and correctly so.

 

[Chesterton]

It depends on the "tent expansion strategy" lol (to keep the tent thing going)


If the changes are things that both people inside and outside the tent agree on, then sure, those changes will bring more/new people in.


However, for certain "niche" things... the people already inside the tent have a threshold of "things you change, but I'll stay" that's much smaller than the requirements that would need to be met for people outside the tent to come in.

I agree when it comes to niche things, but when it comes to changing core values (or even just perceptions of core values) the insiders are going to leave, and the outsiders are not going to be wooed in, since they already have their own thing going on outside the tent.

Meaning, for someone looking specifically for the "country'ish rustic vibe" any minor deviation from that is going to tick off the people off that were already in, but those minor changes aren't going to be enough to get new people in the door.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." As far as toning down the rustic vibe which apparently was very popular, I was going to make an analogy - what if Disneyworld said "let's make Frontierland less cowboy-ish". But I like to do my homework, so I searched Frontierland since I haven't been there since I was a kid, and found that Disney has gone much further than what I facetiously suggested - less than a week ago, they cancelled Frontierland. They want to make it about "dreams" or some such fluff. We could certainly make an argument for the wokeness behind that.

Disney Confirms Total Removal of Frontierland in Magic Kingdom

Surprise, surprise.

insidethemagic.net

Here's perhaps an interesting comparison/analogy (I like to use those)

Anyone familiar with the old club called CBGB?
View attachment 369119
View attachment 369120



It was iconic in the punk rock scene. It was dirty, seedy, nasty, rough, unpredictable. They did a documentary about it called "They vomit and bleed on stage"


Even the slightest "reforms" to make it "a tad more mainstream and approachable" would've meant that their regular patrons would've seen it as "selling out to corporate culture", however, it would've taken a lot more than just "slight reforms" to make it a place where your average "square" would want to take his family to see a concert.

In a nutshell, it would've been a lot easier to lose your current customers than to gain new ones.

Yes I remember CBGB's. I played there twice. We had a similar seedy punk place in my town called Tacoland. The owner, an older Mexican guy named Ram, was a rough, abrasive curmudgeon with a heart of gold, and everybody loved him. Tacoland was a wonderful, magical place for many reasons, but he was the soul of it. The place operated for about two and a half decades, but he was shot and killed inside the bar around 2005. Initially there were some whispers about scrounging up some money to buy the small place and continue it, but that was immediately shot down by us punks; it could never be anything but a pale shadow of itself without Ram.

The TV actor Ricardo Chavira from Desperate Housewives and two partners of his bought the property with the intention of making a kind of tourist spot. They apparently thought they could make money by "making the tent bigger". The obvious problem was, people outside the tent (people who'd never been there) didn't know of its legacy and couldn't care less about it. And those of us inside the tent found the change of continuing without Ram repugnant.

Obviously the cracker barrel situation isn't quite to that extreme, but overall dynamic is the same.

Making it look "a little more modern" and "getting rid of some of the 'Murica! and Jesus stuff in the gift shop" isn't going to be enough to get a wave of new metropolitan 20-somethings to go eat at cracker barrel...however, doing those things will (as we're seeing) be viewed a "middle finger" to their loyal existing customer base.

Agreed.

 

[durangodawood]

It depends on the "tent expansion strategy" lol (to keep the tent thing going)


If the changes are things that both people inside and outside the tent agree on, then sure, those changes will bring more/new people in.


However, for certain "niche" things... the people already inside the tent have a threshold of "things you change, but I'll stay" that's much smaller than the requirements that would need to be met for people outside the tent to come in.

Meaning, for someone looking specifically for the "country'ish rustic vibe" any minor deviation from that is going to tick off the people off that were already in, but those minor changes aren't going to be enough to get new people in the door.



Here's perhaps an interesting comparison/analogy (I like to use those)

Anyone familiar with the old club called CBGB?
View attachment 369119
View attachment 369120



It was iconic in the punk rock scene. It was dirty, seedy, nasty, rough, unpredictable. They did a documentary about it called "They vomit and bleed on stage"


Even the slightest "reforms" to make it "a tad more mainstream and approachable" would've meant that their regular patrons would've seen it as "selling out to corporate culture", however, it would've taken a lot more than just "slight reforms" to make it a place where your average "square" would want to take his family to see a concert.

In a nutshell, it would've been a lot easier to lose your current customers than to gain new ones.


Obviously the cracker barrel situation isn't quite to that extreme, but overall dynamic is the same.

Making it look "a little more modern" and "getting rid of some of the 'Murica! and Jesus stuff in the gift shop" isn't going to be enough to get a wave of new metropolitan 20-somethings to go eat at cracker barrel...however, doing those things will (as we're seeing) be viewed a "middle finger" to their loyal existing customer base.

CBGB was a spot where actual culture got made by real artists. It was actually one of a kind. People mourn the demise of places like that, and the feeling isnt misplaced.

Now imagine how apoplectic and resentful people would get if Hard Rock Cafe started including Easy Listening standards of the 70s and K Pop. Thats right, not upset at all. They might not like it. But no ones gonna feel a deep emotional loss, let alone targeted.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So because there was a "culture wars agenda" behind the Bud Light thing, now various people have lost their minds and see woke agenda everywhere - even where it obviously doesnt exist like in the Cracker Barrel makeover.

Youre not being kind to these people's judgement. Well, neither was I - and correctly so.

Well of course I'm not being necessarily "kind to their judgement", but I never claimed to be...I started the thread by talking about how their food is sub-par and has given me the "Hershey squirts" any time I've eaten lol.

I'm a product centric person, meaning the quality of the product I'm seeking is always going to influence my own personal purchase decision more than the viewpoints of the people who own the place.

I've shared before that one my favorite local breweries (that I hit up every week for Pub Trivia Night...I'll be going there tomorrow night as a matter of fact) is about as "woke" as you can get, but their beer is awesome, their food is excellent, so they'll keep getting my money.


What I am trying to do, is give some understanding to the people who feel like "their thing" is being negated.


If there was a bar/club that was notoriously a "gay hangout", and some corporate person was brought in to rebrand it and the first thing they did was decide "we need to make some changes so that we can draw in some more straight people so we can have a more diverse clientele, but hey gay people are still welcomed here", I can completely understand why the original patrons (even if the re-branding wasn't overtly anti-Gay) would still take some offense to that.

 

[durangodawood]

....Yes I remember CBGB's. I played there twice.....

I sensed you were legendary. or at least legendary adjacent. How does a person go about finding out what band you were in?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

CBGB was a spot where actual culture got made by real artists. It was actually one of a kind.

Now imagine how apoplectic and resentful people would get if Hard Rock Cafe started including Easy Listening standards of the 70s and K Pop. Thats right, not upset at all.

I think you're understating it a bit....

In the "restaurant world", Cracker Barrel was something of a cultural symbol... it may have not been a symbol you put much value in, and that's fine.... the same way I don't personally put any cultural significance onto certain coffee shop chains, but for the Pacific Northwest, it's a "bigger thing" (Remember when all the Starbucks fans got pretty upset about the new corporate leadership taking stances that were not so union friendly?.)


As far as "culture getting made there" (at CBGB), one could argue that's a mixed bag...but again, that's just my personal preference.

While I like Henry Rollins and the Misfits...it's also the same place that hosted GG Allin...the same guy who was clearly mentally ill, and would poop and pee on stage (and sometimes on the audience members) while overtly engaging in self harm and/or flat out assault attendees.

My thoughts about GG Allin was always "if his fans loved him as much as they claim they did, they would've gotten him some help"

 

[Chesterton]

CBGB was a spot where actual culture got made by real artists.

(durangodawood acknowledges the Ramones as real artists. )

I sensed you were legendary. or at least legendary adjacent. How does a person go about finding out what band you were in?

I fear you're trying to dox me. I'm no sucker, but I'll try and be cordial and narrow it down for you.

<tries to think of bands that played CB's and later hit the big time>

I'm either Angus Young, Sting, or Debbie Harry.

 

[Tuur]

Cracker Barrel Caves, Brings Back Classic Logo

Cracker Barrel caved Tuesday after receiving massive backlash, announcing it would bring back its classic logo, according to Fox's Bret Baier.

dailycaller.com

Looks like Cracker Barrel is backpedaling

I'm smelling a rat here.

Cracker Barrel has gotten pushback from changing the décor. Let's assume management wants to do the really, really bad. So they design a logo so poor that it looks like it was done in-house with the paint program that came with the computer, knowing that it will provoke more pushback. But what if the new logo was a throw-away? What if they never really intended on adopting it? Now they go back to the old logo, customers who didn't like it feel vindicated, and the the change in décor proceeds as planned with few complaints. Two steps forward; one step back is still one step forward.

 

[durangodawood]

(durangodawood acknowledges the Ramones as real artists. )

<tries to think of bands that played CB's and later hit the big time>

I'm either Angus Young, Sting, or Debbie Harry.

I'll figure it out... one way or another.

 

[Tuur]

Rural America doesn't want the "vibe" of "their spot" to get "watered down" for the same reason the Seattle hipsters wouldn't want "the vibe" of "their coffee shops" getting watered down.

Ironically, a lot of us in Rural America aren't near enough to a town with an Interstate, and that's the only places we see a Cracker Barrel. OTOH, places like the Golden Coral, a buffet that some locally call "The Brass Cow Pen," is found away from the interstates. You get your food quicker from a buffet and often have more choices, so I heavily favor them. What beats out the Golden Coral is a small, local, chain that's also a buffet, roughly on the same order as the Golden Coral. Even for both, you have to be in something larger than a town with only one traffic light, and I know of a McDonald's and Hardees that's in a town with no traffic lights. Mostly what's in Rural America is privately owned restaurants and convenience store food, and the quality of both varies widely.

 

[Chesterton]

I'm smelling a rat here.

Cracker Barrel has gotten pushback from changing the décor. Let's assume management wants to do the really, really bad. So they design a logo so poor that it looks like it was done in-house with the paint program that came with the computer, knowing that it will provoke more pushback. But what if the new logo was a throw-away? What if they never really intended on adopting it? Now they go back to the old logo, customers who didn't like it feel vindicated, and the the change in décor proceeds as planned with few complaints. Two steps forward; one step back is still one step forward.

Ahh, the New Coke conspiracy theory.

I'll figure it out... one way or another.

I'd love to continue with song references, but we need to keep our focus on old Uncle what's his name. Now that he's lost his gig as a logo, we need to pray that can learn to code.

 

[durangodawood]

(durangodawood acknowledges the Ramones as real artists. )

Dont you go imagining you could sneak this slander by me!

Real boring artists.....

 

[durangodawood]

I think you're understating it a bit....

In the "restaurant world", Cracker Barrel was something of a cultural symbol... it may have not been a symbol you put much value in, and that's fine.... the same way I don't personally put any cultural significance onto certain coffee shop chains, but for the Pacific Northwest, it's a "bigger thing" (Remember when all the Starbucks fans got pretty upset about the new corporate leadership taking stances that were not so union friendly?.)

Dont fall in love with capitalism. It wont love you back. Its just there to do a job.

As far as "culture getting made there" (at CBGB), one could argue that's a mixed bag...but again, that's just my personal preference.

While I like Henry Rollins and the Misfits...it's also the same place that hosted GG Allin...the same guy who was clearly mentally ill, and would poop and pee on stage (and sometimes on the audience members) while overtly engaging in self harm and/or flat out assault attendees.

My thoughts about GG Allin was always "if his fans loved him as much as they claim they did, they would've gotten him some help"

Its always a mixed bag at the low end. This isnt Carnegie Hall where youre only allowed in if your quality is already proven. Theyre taking chances. And so you can see 4 out of town bands for 10$ (or the 80s equiv at CBGB) like I did here last Sat. If just one is great, you had a great time. I lucked out and all of them were at least fun. One was total fire.