Covenant and New Covenant theology

[Guojing]

First of all....the 70th week began in 27 AD (that was when John announced Jesus and baptized Him). Christ Jesus was "cut off" in b the midst of that week in 30 AD....3.5 years later, was the end of the 70th week & the Gospel went out to the Gentiles.

What are you specifically referring to in Acts 2? What verses are you interpreting to be about the 70th week of Daniel?

the part in acts 2 when Peter quoted from the prophet Joel

 

[Guojing]

Basically; yes.
Realize that whoever are His believer's, those people must be the Overcomers for God. Which is the literal meaning of Israel.

What you and many Christians need to understand, is the continued separation of the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Judah is a known entity, but Israel remains scattered among the nations. But Jesus specifically came to save them and we Christians are the result. If this is not the case, then Jesus failed in what He came to do.
Remember; EVERYONE now must be grafted into the 'tree', that is Jesus.

This is what fascinates me the most.

What I have just described to you is "replacement theology", that the Church have replaced the nation Israel, in God's eyes.

Yet, whenever I mention that term, you guys are quick to object and say that is not what you are saying.

If it walks like a duck...

 

[keras]

What I have just described to you is "replacement theology", that the Church have replaced the nation Israel, in God's eyes.

I'll keep trying, but you don't seem to want to know the truth about the 2 Houses; Judah and Israel. Both sent into exile and only Judah has returned, as yet.

As others here have said; ALL of Israel was never entirely composed of the Lords faithful people. Most of them died in the desert, Korah and his clan were killed for disobedience and many from other ethnicities were able to join, by their faith in the true God.
Nothing has changed, those who call themselves Israel, Jews; today, but are not, Romans 2:29, Revelation 2:9, face Judgment along with all the rest of the ungodly in the Lord's forthcoming terrible Day of fiery wrath.

Satan is laughing that so many good people have fallen for his deception, his fake Israel, who openly reject Jesus and even legislate against Christianity.
What do you think God should do about this untenable situation?

 

[Guojing]

I'll keep trying, but you don't seem to want to know the truth about the 2 Houses; Judah and Israel. Both sent into exile and only Judah has returned, as yet.

As others here have said; ALL of Israel was never entirely composed of the Lords faithful people. Most of them died in the desert, Korah and his clan were killed for disobedience and many from other ethnicities were able to join, by their faith in the true God.
Nothing has changed, those who call themselves Israel, Jews; today, but are not, Romans 2:29, Revelation 2:9, face Judgment along with all the rest of the ungodly in the Lord's forthcoming terrible Day of fiery wrath.

Satan is laughing that so many good people have fallen for his deception, his fake Israel, who openly reject Jesus and even legislate against Christianity.
What do you think God should do about this untenable situation?

What you are sharing is your interpretation, not "the truth".

There will always be people who interpret scripture differently from you, just like they do from me.

I don't go around telling people my interpretation of Scripture is necessarily "the truth".

As for your last point, well I interpret Jeremiah literally when he stated in Jeremiah 31:35-26

35Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

For God to turn his back on the nation Israel, every ordinance that we know of in this world, such as the law of gravity, would have to be gone first. That is how seriously God took his covenant with the nation Israel, and that is what Paul is also reminding us in Romans 11:28-29.

 

[jgr]

This is what fascinates me the most.

What I have just described to you is "replacement theology", that the Church have replaced the nation Israel, in God's eyes.

Yet, whenever I mention that term, you guys are quick to object and say that is not what you are saying.

If it walks like a duck...

You've never yet explained where you find the word "replace(ment)".

Explain how the Church's inclusion of the believing remnant of Israel is "replacement".

Or are you decrying the Church's exclusion of unbelieving Israel?

Dispensationalism's "replacement theology" is "replacement biology".

It is the imposition of fallacious racialism upon God and His Word.

God is not a racist.

Dispensationalism's "replacement theology" certainly is a duck.

A dead one.

 

[Guojing]

You've never yet explained where you find the word "replace(ment)".

Explain how the Church's inclusion of the believing remnant of Israel is "replacement".

Or are you decrying the Church's exclusion of unbelieving Israel?

Dispensationalism's "replacement theology" is "replacement biology".

It is the imposition of fallacious racialism upon God and His Word.

Dispensationalism's "replacement theology" certainly is a duck.

A dead one.

I already explained in that previous post, have you read it?

let me try to understand your doctrine here.

israel used to be God’s favourite nation, a nation where God had great plans for.

but becAuse Of their disobedience, they are no longer his favourite nation for good?

instead, as one of you stated, the church became the same nation that is now God’s favourite nation?

Obviously I don't subscribe to that, since I kept emphasizing that the Body of Christ has a separate destiny, from the nation Israel, and that God still has a plan for the nation Israel.

 

[jgr]

I already explained in that previous post, have you read it?



Obviously I don't subscribe to that, since I kept emphasizing that the Body of Christ has a separate destiny, from the nation Israel, and that God still has a plan for the nation Israel.

Who were God's favorites in the nation of Israel?

1. The faithful and obedient?
or
2. The unfaithful and disobedient?

 

[Guojing]

Who were God's favorites in the nation of Israel?

1. The faithful and obedient?
or
2. The unfaithful and disobedient?

In time past, God had a covenant with the entire nation. As long as a Jew is not cut off from the nation Israel, in which there are many ways a Jew can be cut off, for example refusing to be circumcised is one way, Genesis 17:14, he will be placed in Paradise after his death.

God considered the entire nation as his first born. Their father, Abraham, was barren. Naturally, at his ripe old age, he could no longer have children.

God had to supernaturally intervene in his life to enable him to give birth to Issac.

Thru Issac, thru Jacob, thru his 12 sons, the nation literally came into existence.

Exodus 4:22 had a very insightful verse about this

And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

This was reinforced in Jeremiah 31:9

9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

God considered Israel his first born son. They literally became a nation when God supernaturally rescued them from Egypt, separating the waters in the ocean until all of them literally cross over the water in dry land.

 

[jgr]

In time past, God had a covenant with the entire nation.

God never had a covenant with the entire nation. He only ever had a covenant with the faithful and obedient within the nation.

You consistently refuse to distinguish between the faithful and obedient, and the unfaithful and disobedient.

Why?

 

[Guojing]

God never had a covenant with the entire nation. He only ever had a covenant with the faithful and obedient within the nation.

You consistently refuse to distinguish between the faithful and obedient, and the unfaithful and disobedient.

Why?

I already quoted for you the relevant passages from Exodus 4 and Jeremiah 31.

I cannot understand them for you, however. If you insist on interpreting it another way, that is your choice.

 

[jgr]

I already quoted for you the relevant passages from Exodus 4 and Jeremiah 31.

I cannot understand them for you, however. If you insist on interpreting it another way, that is your choice.

You didn't answer the question.

Read Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

Then quote any verses where God enters into covenant with the unfaithful and disobedient.

 

[Guojing]

You didn't answer the question.

Read Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

Then quote any verses where God enters into covenant with the unfaithful and disobedient.

I quoted the verses about how God regarded the nation Israel

 

[keras]

As for your last point, well I interpret Jeremiah literally when he stated in Jeremiah 31:35-26

Who is the nation of Israel to whom God makes a promise in Jeremiah 31?
Jesus gives us a very clear indication in the parable of the landowner:
Matthew 21:43 Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

We do not have to look too far to discover which nation, people group that is: it is the church, the church of Jesus Christ, made up of believing Jews and Gentiles, who are the seed of Abraham, the children of God, the real Israelites of the New Testament.

I Peter 2:9-10 writes to the church in these words: But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people ... which in times past were not a people, but are now the people of God.

Holy nation is the name given to Israel in Exodus 19:5-6. Peter now applies it to the church! The church is the holy nation, and since the church will never be destroyed, it is in her and not in the modern Jewish State of Israel, that the new Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is fulfilled.

Titus 2:14 is also instructive: to the churches in Crete Paul attributes the title "peculiar people," a name taken from Exodus 19:5.

One more thing must be noticed in Jeremiah 31:31-34 The promise of the new Covenant is made to the house of Judah and the house of Israel. In this covenant with the house of Israel God will: put His law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and will be their God and they shall be His people ... Moreover, God promises to the same house of Israel: I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more. How is this new covenant promise fulfilled, and to whom?
The answer is found in Hebrews 8:6-13. This Covenant cannot be with the House of Israel as a separate entity from the Church of Jesus Christ. The church of Christ, which enjoys the knowledge of God and forgiveness of sins, is the house of Israel.


Are there, then, no promises to the political entity of the State of Israel? The answer is an unequivocal no. Will Israel as a political entity ever rebuild her temple and worship God as she did in the Old Testament? That is impossible under today’s conditions, but even if they did build a temple in Jerusalem and institute a priesthood, offer sacrifices and celebrate the feasts, it will be just another sign of Jewish apostasy from God.

All the promises of God are in Christ. 2 Cor. 1:20 All the promises of God were made to Christ, as the Seed of Abraham. Galatians 3:16 Therefore, there can be no promise of any kind for any unbeliever outside of Jesus Christ.

The calling of the Jew, as the calling of the Gentile, is to repent and believe in Jesus Christ and join the church of Jew and Gentile, male and female, bond and free, where there is no difference, and as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them and mercy!" For they are the [Christian] Israel of God! Galatians 6:14-16

 

[mkgal1]

Peter has nothing for the Body of Christ. Once you are willing to accept that the nation Israel is separate from the Body of Christ, then you can understand correctly what Peter was saying to Israel in 1 Peter.

So this isn't the Body of Christ that Peter was writing to here?

1 Peter 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth (b) into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you​

 

[Guojing]

So this isn't the Body of Christ that Peter was writing to here?

1 Peter 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth (b) into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you​

To Israel, salvation is something they can expect in the future, as I have already stated to you using Peter's own words in Acts 3:19-21.

So no, our new birth is not reserved in heaven for us, and not after we gone thru fiery trials, and we certainly do not 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Paul tells us we have salvation the moment we believe in 1 Cor 15:1-4.

You have not addressed my points about 1 Peter 4 yet. Peter was clearly not preaching the same gospel as Paul gave to us in the Body of Christ. Paul will never tell us in the body of Christ to expect judgement coming in the future, nor will he tell us we in the Body of Christ "scarcely be saved"

 

[Guojing]

Who is the nation of Israel to whom God makes a promise in Jeremiah 31?
Jesus gives us a very clear indication in the parable of the landowner:
Matthew 21:43 Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

We do not have to look too far to discover which nation, people group that is: it is the church, the church of Jesus Christ, made up of believing Jews and Gentiles, who are the seed of Abraham, the children of God, the real Israelites of the New Testament.

I Peter 2:9-10 writes to the church in these words: But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people ... which in times past were not a people, but are now the people of God.

Holy nation is the name given to Israel in Exodus 19:5-6. Peter now applies it to the church! The church is the holy nation, and since the church will never be destroyed, it is in her and not in the modern Jewish State of Israel, that the new Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is fulfilled.

Titus 2:14 is also instructive: to the churches in Crete Paul attributes the title "peculiar people," a name taken from Exodus 19:5.

One more thing must be noticed in Jeremiah 31:31-34 The promise of the new Covenant is made to the house of Judah and the house of Israel. In this covenant with the house of Israel God will: put His law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and will be their God and they shall be His people ... Moreover, God promises to the same house of Israel: I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more. How is this new covenant promise fulfilled, and to whom?
The answer is found in Hebrews 8:6-13. This Covenant cannot be with the House of Israel as a separate entity from the Church of Jesus Christ. The church of Christ, which enjoys the knowledge of God and forgiveness of sins, is the house of Israel.


Are there, then, no promises to the political entity of the State of Israel? The answer is an unequivocal no. Will Israel as a political entity ever rebuild her temple and worship God as she did in the Old Testament? That is impossible under today’s conditions, but even if they did build a temple in Jerusalem and institute a priesthood, offer sacrifices and celebrate the feasts, it will be just another sign of Jewish apostasy from God.

All the promises of God are in Christ. 2 Cor. 1:20 All the promises of God were made to Christ, as the Seed of Abraham. Galatians 3:16 Therefore, there can be no promise of any kind for any unbeliever outside of Jesus Christ.

The calling of the Jew, as the calling of the Gentile, is to repent and believe in Jesus Christ and join the church of Jew and Gentile, male and female, bond and free, where there is no difference, and as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them and mercy!" For they are the [Christian] Israel of God! Galatians 6:14-16

Sorry to burst your bubble but 1 Peter is not written to the Body of Christ. I have explained at various posts to others already, so let's not go thru them again.

If you still want to insist he is, we can agree to disagree and move on.

 

[mkgal1]

Daniel's 70th week was prophesied to happen after the cross, in the OT prophetic timetable, as he explained in Acts 2.

What are you specifically referring to in Acts 2? What verses are you interpreting to be about the 70th week of Daniel?

the part in acts 2 when Peter quoted from the prophet Joel

Peter was saying that the day of Pentecost in 30 AD .....when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the House of Israel and the House of Judah....was the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. I don't see anything about Daniel. They were already half-way through the 70th week (in the "last days" of the Mosaic Covenant).

Acts 2:14-
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!(d) No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

[Quotes Joel's prophecy]​

V.36-41
Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!” When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.” With many other words he testified, and he urged them, “Be saved from this corrupt generation.” Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day.j
​

Peter is addressing Israel.....and is not offering them a different plan of salvation to that of the Gentiles. There's One plan....One people of God.....one inheritance.

 

[mkgal1]

To Israel, salvation is something they can expect in the future, as I have already stated to you using Peter's own words in Acts 3:19-21

Peter was writing in the present tense.

1 Peter 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth (b) into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you​

Sorry to burst your bubble but 1 Peter is not written to the Body of Christ. I have explained at various posts to others already, so let's not go thru them again.

If you still want to insist he is, we can agree to disagree and move on.

Thank you for representing dispensationalism in this thread. I think it's been well demonstrated that the hard line dispensationalists will not cross is unity between the faithful remnant of the Israelites and the Gentiles (Ephesians 2:14).....or, in their typical words, the Body of Christ and Israel are separate and there are two plans for salvation. This is all stated and defended against Scriptural evidence that refutes these beliefs. I'm not certain if it's typical dispensationalism to believe that Paul taught a different Gospel from Peter....but that's what's been represented in this thread to further the idea of separation between Israel and the Church.

.

 

[Guojing]

​

Peter was saying that the day of Pentecost in 30 AD .....when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the House of Israel and the House of Judah....was the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. I don't see anything about Daniel. They were already half-way through the 70th week (in the "last days" of the Mosaic Covenant).

Acts 2:14-
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!(d) No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

[Quotes Joel's prophecy]​

V.36-41
Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!” When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.” With many other words he testified, and he urged them, “Be saved from this corrupt generation.” Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day.j
​

Peter is addressing Israel.....and is not offering them a different plan of salvation to that of the Gentiles. There's One plan....One people of God.....one inheritance.

In the first place, Water baptism is not required for salvation under Paul's gospel. (1 Cor 15:1-4)

As for Daniel, Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

The day of the Lord always refers to the Tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble, as in Zechariah 14

1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

[Guojing]

I'm not certain if it's typical dispensationalism to believe that Paul taught a different Gospel from Peter....but that's what's been represented in this thread to further the idea of separation between Israel and the Church.

.

I already stated to you plainly what Peter taught Israel in 1 Peter 4. I do understand why you are not willing to address it because it makes for uncomfortable reading.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Peter was clearly not preaching the same gospel as Paul gave to us in the Body of Christ. Paul will never tell us in the body of Christ to expect judgement coming in the future, nor will he tell us we in the Body of Christ "scarcely be saved".

Are you willing to read those verses literally and ask yourself this question, "How in the world can Peter be preaching the same gospel as Paul, if Peter can actually tell us that "the righteous scarcely be saved"?

Is that what you are believing now, that you are not even sure of your own salvation? That you are expecting judgement to fall on you in the age to come?

If your answer is yes, then I am sorry to say, you are not following the gospel of grace that the Apostle Paul is teaching you, in the Body of Christ.