Courts halt Presidential edict

[TLK Valentine]

That's still dozens of highly trained SEALS gone, but I suppose we shouldn't worry about silly things like national security when the Navy can just go recruit Bob off the street to fill those spots. Ability and skill is highly overrated after all.

Ability and skill are meaningless without respect for the chain of command.

The Navy of all people understand the danger of loose cannons, after all.

 

[Parmallia]

What Govts and Media Are Not Telling You About Vaccine Mandates - UncoverDC

It would be well for everyone to read the above link to see how inapplicable the 1905 Jacobson case is to the current Biden Regime mandate. The 1905 mandate was a LAW passed by the Massachusetts State legislature. The Biden OSHA mandate is pure fiat issued from the Biden regime abusing his executive authority and trampling on grounds reserved for the States. No legislative input at all.

And the court that upheld the fine actually issued this warning.

“t might be that an acknowledged power of a local community to protect itself against an epidemic threatening the safety of all, might be exercised in particular circumstances and in reference to particular persons in such an arbitrary, unreasonable manner, or might go so far beyond what was reasonably required for the safety of the public, as to authorize or compel the courts to interfere for the protection of such persons.”

“Before closing this opinion, we deem it appropriate, in order to prevent misapprehension as to our views, to observe—perhaps to repeat a thought already sufficiently expressed, namely—that the police power of a State, whether exercised by the legislature or by a local body acting under its authority, may be exerted in such circumstances or by regulations so arbitrary and oppressive in particular cases as to justify the interference of the courts to prevent wrong and oppression.”

What about George Washington's vaccine mandate for the troops during the Revolutionary War?

 

[eucatastrophe]

What about George Washington's vaccine mandate for the troops during the Revolutionary War?

What?? No vaccines existed in the 18th century. I suspect you are thinking about the time he administered small doses of small pox infected material to his troops in order to build up natural heard immunity. Absolutely irrelevant in any case...unless you are acknowledging that natural immunity is the only way out of a pandemic? (It is.)

 

[Vylo]

He paid a $5 fine.

Correct, about $150 by today's valuation. The laws have been updated to make breaking the mandates more significant.

 

[Vylo]

What Govts and Media Are Not Telling You About Vaccine Mandates - UncoverDC

It would be well for everyone to read the above link to see how inapplicable the 1905 Jacobson case is to the current Biden Regime mandate. The 1905 mandate was a LAW passed by the Massachusetts State legislature. The Biden OSHA mandate is pure fiat issued from the Biden regime abusing his executive authority and trampling on grounds reserved for the States. No legislative input at all.

And the court that upheld the fine actually issued this warning.

“t might be that an acknowledged power of a local community to protect itself against an epidemic threatening the safety of all, might be exercised in particular circumstances and in reference to particular persons in such an arbitrary, unreasonable manner, or might go so far beyond what was reasonably required for the safety of the public, as to authorize or compel the courts to interfere for the protection of such persons.”

“Before closing this opinion, we deem it appropriate, in order to prevent misapprehension as to our views, to observe—perhaps to repeat a thought already sufficiently expressed, namely—that the police power of a State, whether exercised by the legislature or by a local body acting under its authority, may be exerted in such circumstances or by regulations so arbitrary and oppressive in particular cases as to justify the interference of the courts to prevent wrong and oppression.”

The legislature gave the presidency this power. Who do you think created OSHA?

This is why congress may wish to be more careful about how much power they sign away. They've created institutions that essentially do their job for them, but fall under executive power.

 

[Parmallia]

What?? No vaccines existed in the 18th century.

Jenner's work on cowpox and smallpox was in the 18th century.

I suspect you are thinking about the time he administered small doses of small pox infected material to his troops in order to build up natural heard immunity. Absolutely irrelevant in any case...unless you are acknowledging that natural immunity is the only way out of a pandemic? (It is.)

It is not irrelevant because that is the definition of a vaccine.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Looks like a bunch of Navy Seals are suing the Biden Administration over the mandate.

Navy SEALs sue Biden administration over COVID mandate | FOX 28 Spokane

These guys are supposed to defend the country with their lives and they won’t even take a simple vaccine?

 

[Belk]

we disagree.

Lol. In that we are agreed.

 

[bekkilyn]

These guys are supposed to defend the country with their lives and they won’t even take a simple vaccine?

Part of defending the country is in upholding its principles.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Part of defending the country is in upholding its principles.

Which principles did you have in mind?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

That's still dozens of highly trained SEALS gone

That is too bad, but somehow I think we'll survive without them. Biggest shame is the money wasted on training them, but it's best to kick insubordinate soldiers out the door before they cause bigger problems for your chain of command.

 

[Hammster]

That is too bad, but somehow I think we'll survive without them. Biggest shame is the money wasted on training them, but it's best to kick insubordinate soldiers out the door before they cause bigger problems for your chain of command.

It’s not insubordination when you disobey unlawful orders.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It’s not insubordination when you disobey unlawful orders.

Who determined the orders were unlawful?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Meanwhile, it's not just presidential edicts getting struck down:

Judge rules Texas Gov. Greg Abbott's ban on school mask mandates violates federal law

A federal judge in Texas ruled Wednesday that Gov. Greg Abbott’s executive order banning mask mandates in schools violates the Americans with Disabilities Act, setting the stage for school districts in the state to decide whether they want to impose mask rules.

U.S. District Judge Lee Yeakel wrote in a 29-page ruling that the ADA, a federal law enacted in 1990, supersedes Abbott's July order banning facial coverings in schools.

Tyranny keep popping up; the judiciary keeps smacking it down... right?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It’s not insubordination when you disobey unlawful orders.

What makes the orders unlawful?

 

[Hammster]

What makes the orders unlawful?

That’s going to depend on the order. And most likely will will result in a court marshal to determine if it’s lawful or not.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

That’s going to depend on the order. And most likely will will result in a court marshal to determine if it’s lawful or not.

The order has already been given: all members of the military on active duty or ready reserve must be vaccinated against COVID-19.

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Aug/...-OF-DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE-SERVICE-MEMBERS.PDF

It proceeds under the same guidelines as the existing military vaccine program - meaning that servicemembers who have "contraindications" (i.e. allergic reactions) are exempt, and that all existing administrative exceptions (which includes religious exemption) apply.

It should be noted that the process for obtaining a religious exemption from vaccination includes counseling from both doctors and command on the medical and career consequences of not being vaccinated. It seems that this counseling is what the SEALs are objecting to, calling it discrimination. Assuming that they do obtain a religious exemption, I see no indication that they will be court-martialed or discharged for not being vaccinated. However, they may be removed from Special Operator status - which I feel is reasonable. COVID is a threat to the readiness of our armed forces. Should our most elite soldiers be placed on active duty lacking full protection against it?

I will say that seeking the recovery of their training costs might be excessively punitive, but that's the only thing that stood out to me.

ETA: there may also be some legitimacy to the complaint that those who get medical exemptions will keep Special Operator status/pay while those who get religious exemptions won't, and it seems like some individual commanders may have taken things too far in trying to encourage their troops to get vaccinated. But I see no issue with the order itself.

 

[SimplyMe]

The order has already been given: all members of the military on active duty or ready reserve must be vaccinated against COVID-19.

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Aug/...-OF-DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE-SERVICE-MEMBERS.PDF

It proceeds under the same guidelines as the existing military vaccine program - meaning that servicemembers who have "contraindications" (i.e. allergic reactions) are exempt, and that all existing administrative exceptions (which includes religious exemption) apply.

It should be noted that the process for obtaining a religious exemption from vaccination includes counseling from both doctors and command on the medical and career consequences of not being vaccinated. It seems that this counseling is what the SEALs are objecting to, calling it discrimination. Assuming that they do obtain a religious exemption, I see no indication that they will be court-martialed or discharged for not being vaccinated. However, they may be removed from Special Operator status - which I feel is reasonable. COVID is a threat to the readiness of our armed forces. Should our most elite soldiers be placed on active duty lacking full protection against it?

I will say that seeking the recovery of their training costs might be excessively punitive, but that's the only thing that stood out to me.

ETA: there may also be some legitimacy to the complaint that those who get medical exemptions will keep Special Operator status/pay while those who get religious exemptions won't, and it seems like some individual commanders may have taken things too far in trying to encourage their troops to get vaccinated. But I see no issue with the order itself.

They've been denied their religious exemption and are now suing in Federal Court, that their religious rights have been violated. I would have to guess that the military's issue is that these Seals had never refused any previous vaccines based on religion (and the Seals would have had all the normal vaccines the military gives, plus "extra" vaccines due to some of the locations they could be deployed to); and these Seals never tried to adequately explain why this vaccine was against their religion while all the others were ok.

It will be interesting to see how the court decides but, based on what I've read and from my time in the military, I suspect the lawsuit will not end favorably for the Seals.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

They've been denied their religious exemption and are now suing in Federal Court, that their religious rights have been violated. I would have to guess that the military's issue is that these Seals had never refused any previous vaccines based on religion (and the Seals would have had all the normal vaccines the military gives, plus "extra" vaccines due to some of the locations they could be deployed to); and these Seals never tried to adequately explain why this vaccine was against their religion while all the others were ok.

It will be interesting to see how the court decides but, based on what I've read and from my time in the military, I suspect the lawsuit will not end favorably for the Seals.

I've been trying to wade through the press coverage and spin on this, and it seems like there might be multiple cases, or at least some other potential cases that might come up. I agree that the ones suing over their religious exemptions being denied will probably fail for the reasons that you gave, but there are some other complaints (it's not clear whether or not these are tied to lawsuits) that look like they might have merit.

 

[Hammster]

The order has already been given: all members of the military on active duty or ready reserve must be vaccinated against COVID-19.

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Aug/...-OF-DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE-SERVICE-MEMBERS.PDF

It proceeds under the same guidelines as the existing military vaccine program - meaning that servicemembers who have "contraindications" (i.e. allergic reactions) are exempt, and that all existing administrative exceptions (which includes religious exemption) apply.

It should be noted that the process for obtaining a religious exemption from vaccination includes counseling from both doctors and command on the medical and career consequences of not being vaccinated. It seems that this counseling is what the SEALs are objecting to, calling it discrimination. Assuming that they do obtain a religious exemption, I see no indication that they will be court-martialed or discharged for not being vaccinated. However, they may be removed from Special Operator status - which I feel is reasonable. COVID is a threat to the readiness of our armed forces. Should our most elite soldiers be placed on active duty lacking full protection against it?

I will say that seeking the recovery of their training costs might be excessively punitive, but that's the only thing that stood out to me.

ETA: there may also be some legitimacy to the complaint that those who get medical exemptions will keep Special Operator status/pay while those who get religious exemptions won't, and it seems like some individual commanders may have taken things too far in trying to encourage their troops to get vaccinated. But I see no issue with the order itself.

The order for the so-called vaccine order will be challenged in court, most likely.