Court overturns Texas ban on sex toys

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
but having more than a certain number does not equate promotion. I have TONS of pens, but I'm not promoting them... I also have TONS of cats... ??!! I guess that's my problem with the whole thing. I can understand not wanting a sex shop on every corner, but to prohibit the sale of an item AS that item is intended to be used is silly (like the "massager" ads you see where the lady is rubbing the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] on her neck... come on people... why not just call a mouse a mouse and not a furry fluff ball)
But again, silly does not equal unconstitutional. Car dealerships are closed by law on Sundays in MN (and in many other states). There is morality reasoning behind that (which I have never fully understood). I think its silly. But it certainly isn't unconstitutional.
 
Upvote 0

LonesomeTexan

Veteran
Jun 24, 2007
3,855
92
35
North of Houston
✟19,404.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
I think the appeals court has some "'splainin'" to do. At the outset of the opinion, we have this:​





But the reasoning for striking down the law was that it violates the privacy of those who "use or possess" such devices. How can a law violate a privacy that the court has already stated isn't violated by the law?​
it's not suprising. the right to privacy has been so loosely interpreted that women can have abortions on demand. a mother's right to "choice" doesn't exist when you have consentual sex with another.
 
Upvote 0

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
it's not suprising. the right to privacy has been so loosely interpreted that women can have abortions on demand. a mother's right to "choice" doesn't exist when you have consentual sex with another.
Well, let's not go THERE.
 
Upvote 0

Meshavrischika

for Thy greater honor and glory
Jun 12, 2007
20,903
1,566
OK
✟43,103.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
But again, silly does not equal unconstitutional. Car dealerships are closed by law on Sundays in MN (and in many other states). There is morality reasoning behind that (which I have never fully understood). I think its silly. But it certainly isn't unconstitutional.
I think that basing it on a religious objection might actually be unconsitutional. I'm pretty sure, though veiled in "morality" that this is the major cause of this law to begin with.
 
Upvote 0

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think that basing it on a religious objection might actually be unconsitutional. I'm pretty sure, though veiled in "morality" that this is the major cause of this law to begin with.
Well, the religious intrusion would have to be demonstrated. That's not so easy to do. At any rate, the court didn't employ any first amendment rationale, nor did the plaintiffs bring a first amendment complaint. So, the religious issue is rather moot.

I read through about half the opinion before I just got too bored. Here is the general line of reasoning the court is using. Basically, a ban on commerce may lead to a ban on use and therefore an intrusion into privacy by association (the association of use with purchase). Personally, I think that's pretty weak, especially in the internet age. In fact, one of the plaintiffs already sells over the internet to Texans without any intereference or indictment under this law. The reason they joined the case is that they wanted to open retail stores in Texas.

Are Texans really left sex toy-less if there are no sex toy stores around the corner for them to go to? I seriously doubt it. In fact, the other plaintiff only has 4 stores in Texas but I have not heard an outcry from consumer advocates in Texas that sex toys are unavailable. Are we to believe that people drive hundreds of miles to one of these 4 stores to get their sex toy supplies because "there's just no other way to get my sex toys"? Certainly not. As silly as the law is, the law suit is just as silly.
 
Upvote 0

LonesomeTexan

Veteran
Jun 24, 2007
3,855
92
35
North of Houston
✟19,404.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
I think that basing it on a religious objection might actually be unconsitutional. I'm pretty sure, though veiled in "morality" that this is the major cause of this law to begin with.
ahh, the so called "seperation of church and state". reading the first amendment, I see no violation here. The federal government had no authority to strike down this law and as much as historical revisionists would like you to believe that this seperation exists at all levels of government, it's simply not true. heck, states had their own official Christian churches back in the day.
 
Upvote 0

Dagna

Heathen
Nov 14, 2003
562
38
TX
Visit site
✟15,910.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I'm pretty happy that they finally got rid of that ridiculous law. I never quite figured out why they can't advertise sex toys as such, but we can have a full nude bar in town. Go figure.

Honestly though, the law didn't matter too much. You were able to get around it by calling and advertising them as gag gifts or novelties. Not like any of us were suffering or put out too much by the law. It's just nice that they changed it.
 
Upvote 0

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm pretty happy that they finally got rid of that ridiculous law. I never quite figured out why they can't advertise sex toys as such, but we can have a full nude bar in town. Go figure.

Honestly though, the law didn't matter too much. You were able to get around it by calling and advertising them as gag gifts or novelties. Not like any of us were suffering or put out too much by the law. It's just nice that they changed it.
Well, that kind of gets to the point though. Sure its "nice" that they changed it but do the courts have the authority to change it. This is why people get nervous about "activist" courts because the court begins to serve the purpose of the legislature. The court's (at this level) only responsibility and authority is to judge the constitutionality of laws. Their opinion about the silliness of a law is irrelevant if it is constitutional. Legislatures write laws all the time that we all look at and say "well, that was stupid" or "that's a bad idea" or "that's a p.r. nightmare", but stupid, bad, and insensitive doesn't necessarily equal unconstitutional. The court only gets a say regarding constitutionality, not regarding "sense".
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm pretty happy that they finally got rid of that ridiculous law. I never quite figured out why they can't advertise sex toys as such, but we can have a full nude bar in town. Go figure.

Honestly though, the law didn't matter too much. You were able to get around it by calling and advertising them as gag gifts or novelties. Not like any of us were suffering or put out too much by the law. It's just nice that they changed it.
Well, that kind of gets to the point though. Sure its "nice" that they changed it but do the courts have the authority to change it. This is why people get nervous about "activist" courts because the court begins to serve the purpose of the legislature. The court's (at this level) only responsibility and authority is to judge the constitutionality of laws. Their opinion about the silliness of a law is irrelevant if it is constitutional. Legislatures write laws all the time that we all look at and say "well, that was stupid" or "that's a bad idea" or "that's a p.r. nightmare", but stupid, bad, and insensitive doesn't necessarily equal unconstitutional. The court only gets a say regarding constitutionality, not regarding "sense". I
 
Upvote 0

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm pretty happy that they finally got rid of that ridiculous law. I never quite figured out why they can't advertise sex toys as such, but we can have a full nude bar in town. Go figure.

Honestly though, the law didn't matter too much. You were able to get around it by calling and advertising them as gag gifts or novelties. Not like any of us were suffering or put out too much by the law. It's just nice that they changed it.
Well, that kind of gets to the point though. Sure its "nice" that they changed it but do the courts have the authority to change it. This is why people get nervous about "activist" courts because the court begins to serve the purpose of the legislature. The court's (at this level) only responsibility and authority is to judge the constitutionality of laws. Their opinion about the silliness of a law is irrelevant if it is constitutional. Legislatures write laws all the time that we all look at and say "well, that was stupid" or "that's a bad idea" or "that's a p.r. nightmare", but stupid, bad, and insensitive doesn't necessarily equal unconstitutional. The court only gets a say regarding constitutionality, not regarding "sense". I don't care
 
Upvote 0

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm pretty happy that they finally got rid of that ridiculous law. I never quite figured out why they can't advertise sex toys as such, but we can have a full nude bar in town. Go figure.

Honestly though, the law didn't matter too much. You were able to get around it by calling and advertising them as gag gifts or novelties. Not like any of us were suffering or put out too much by the law. It's just nice that they changed it.
Well, that kind of gets to the point though. Sure its "nice" that they changed it but do the courts have the authority to change it. This is why people get nervous about "activist" courts because the court begins to serve the purpose of the legislature. The court's (at this level) only responsibility and authority is to judge the constitutionality of laws. Their opinion about the silliness of a law is irrelevant if it is constitutional. Legislatures write laws all the time that we all look at and say "well, that was stupid" or "that's a bad idea" or "that's a p.r. nightmare", but stupid, bad, and insensitive doesn't necessarily equal unconstitutional. The court only gets a say regarding constitutionality, not regarding "sense". I don't care how "nice"
 
Upvote 0

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm pretty happy that they finally got rid of that ridiculous law. I never quite figured out why they can't advertise sex toys as such, but we can have a full nude bar in town. Go figure.

Honestly though, the law didn't matter too much. You were able to get around it by calling and advertising them as gag gifts or novelties. Not like any of us were suffering or put out too much by the law. It's just nice that they changed it.
Well, that kind of gets to the point though. Sure its "nice" that they changed it but do the courts have the authority to change it. This is why people get nervous about "activist" courts because the court begins to serve the purpose of the legislature. The court's (at this level) only responsibility and authority is to judge the constitutionality of laws. Their opinion about the silliness of a law is irrelevant if it is constitutional. Legislatures write laws all the time that we all look at and say "well, that was stupid" or "that's a bad idea" or "that's a p.r. nightmare", but stupid, bad, and insensitive doesn't necessarily equal unconstitutional. The court only gets a say regarding constitutionality, not regarding "sense". I don't care how "nice" it would be to repeal some of the "blue" laws here in MN, the courts don't have authority (or, more correctly, grounds) to do it.
 
Upvote 0

Corey

Veteran
Mar 7, 2002
2,874
156
49
Illinois
Visit site
✟18,987.00
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Democracy, federalism, and America are falling apart at the seams. self government wont last much longer folks. it's been a good run though. the average democracy only lasts for a couple hundred years anyway.

In our case 213 to be exact...1787 to 2000.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dagna

Heathen
Nov 14, 2003
562
38
TX
Visit site
✟15,910.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I guess my point was more along the lines that the law, while it was in place, really didn't do a whole lot anyways. They could have left it in place and the stores would continue selling their "novelties", "gag gifts" and "personal massage devices" to those that wanted them. Legal wise, I don't know squat about it because I'm not a lawyer. Personally, I thought the law was ridiculous and didn't have a valid standing, but then again...this is TX. Only place I know of where I can find two churches, an adult video store and a nude bar all at the same intersection, but heaven forbid we sell adult toys.
 
Upvote 0

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I guess my point was more along the lines that the law, while it was in place, really didn't do a whole lot anyways. They could have left it in place and the stores would continue selling their "novelties", "gag gifts" and "personal massage devices" to those that wanted them. Legal wise, I don't know squat about it because I'm not a lawyer. Personally, I thought the law was ridiculous and didn't have a valid standing, but then again...this is TX. Only place I know of where I can find two churches, an adult video store and a nude bar all at the same intersection, but heaven forbid we sell adult toys.
I appreciate that Dagna. You hit upon the only valid issue in your post. "Personally, I thought the law...didn't have a valid standing" That is the only thing the court can judge on. Everything else is outside of their power. Now, why do you feel the law didn't have valid standing?
 
Upvote 0

gengwall

Senior Veteran
Feb 16, 2006
5,003
408
MN
✟14,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
This is what many people don't understand and what makes conservative constructionalists absolutely appoplectic. When determining the consitutionality of laws, the court's authority does not extend beyond that very thing - determining constitutionality. Moreover, they should do it dispassionately. But many times the courts over step their bounds into social engineering, cultural relevatism, and political correctness. The court should care less if people feel good about their decision or think it is "nice". Their only job is to determine if the law in question is constitutional - without passion, emotion, or deference to majority sentiments.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

horuhe00

Contributor
Apr 28, 2004
5,132
194
42
Guaynabo, Puerto Rico
Visit site
✟21,931.00
Country
Puerto Rico
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
it's sad isn't it?

i have always been amazed at the >6 law... i'm sure lots of people have more than six at home... and aren't "promoting" anything but their own agenda with them :)

So what constitutes a sex toy? A [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? A but plug? Handcuffs? A feather? Silk sheets? Personal lubricant? BABY OIL?!?!?
 
Upvote 0