Countdown to explosion in...

[Shane Roach]

Too bad Ann gets her facts wrong again. Phil Kline overstepped his bounds. Morrison only pursued lesser charges after a conservative judge threw out Kline's initial case.

What bounds did Kline overstep? On what actual grounds did the judge toss out the case?

 

[IzzyPop]

What bounds did Kline overstep? On what actual grounds did the judge toss out the case?

Patient confidentiality.

IIRC, Mr. Kline was trying a bit of an end run around the system. It wasn't about proving Tiller broke the law, although that would have been a nice bonus. It was an attempt to get these records out in the open in a way that would make the patients fairly easy to identify, giving future patients one more reason to not get an abortion. The judge offered various compromises to Kline so as to protect patient privacy, but Kline refused them.

 

[Shane Roach]

Patient confidentiality.

IIRC, Mr. Kline was trying a bit of an end run around the system. It wasn't about proving Tiller broke the law, although that would have been a nice bonus. It was an attempt to get these records out in the open in a way that would make the patients fairly easy to identify, giving future patients one more reason to not get an abortion. The judge offered various compromises to Kline so as to protect patient privacy, but Kline refused them.

Source? I remember this on the news but not how it turned out.

 

[Tenka]

I'm speaking a doctrinal truth

It's the same cowardly act that the same people do when they attack homosexuals:
We don't promote violence, but, Homosexuals are unnatural perversions of nature who want to corrupt our children and destroy our society!

 

[IzzyPop]

Source? I remember this on the news but not how it turned out.

Oops. Looks like I got the Tiller case and a more recent one in Johnson County against Planned Parenthood confused.

The judge threw out the case because of a jurisdictional conflict with Wichita's DA.

 

[SiderealExalt]

It's the same cowardly act that the same people do when they attack homosexuals:
We don't promote violence, but, Homosexuals are unnatural perversions of nature who want to corrupt our children and destroy our society!

Wasn't it a Nobel prize winner that said it takes religion to make good people do bad things?

If doctrine teachers us to paint people into subhumanity...maybe it's time for a new doctrine...

I can't understand how some people can't see that.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Holman: I don't advocate Tiller's murder, but I don't condemn it - CNN.com
Tiller Murder Is Terrorism, and All Pro-Life Extremists Are to Blame - Bonnie Erbe (usnews.com)


Does anyone else here see a bomb ready to go off?

So, new question in regards to Dr. Tiller's murder. Should we work to quite down the new controversy to where the very tense state it was in before the murder, should we work to make this explosion as large as possible and see who is left afterward, or should we just run? Which do you want to do? Which do you plan to do? Which do you think it is moral to do?

Part of me wants to make the explosion bigger, as it will get a lot of those who are rhetoric in the most part to seriously reconsider their position. If you call it murder, and the law is not stopping it, should you just sit on your hands and wait? At the same time, this could turn nasty if more people start killing, but then again, it will get others to understand the relativity of their posistion on other axises of thought. As to what I will do, no clue yet, but probably nothing unless someone else brings the topic up, at least till I made up my mind how I feel about this morally.

A Christian fundamentalist should adhere to the words of Jesus in the Gospel.

The murderer of Dr. Tiller had no right, nor support from the New Testament witness to kill him.

Jesus clearly depicted life even for enemies. Murdering Dr. Tiller in his Church should be an affront to every person that calls themself a Christian.

I have no idea what kind of Church Dr. Tiller went to, but if he could have gone to a Pro-Life, Evangelical Church, I have to believe that he would have never been involved with performing abortions. If the murderer of Dr. Tiller had been influenced by the Gospel and not by social ideology, I have to believe that he wouldn't have murdered Dr. Tiller.

Every belief I have about abortion has never caused me once to reject a woman and man that decided this procedure to end the life of their unborn baby. In Gospel declarations, life is to be respected, and that means every life.

 

[Stormahead]

Personally I am waiting for the ACORN crowd to write a George Tiller ditty for their troops to march to like the Horst Wessel Song or maybe Raise the Banner back in the 1930's.

 

[Steve Petersen]

This is all feeling very familiar. Kinda like the first few years of the Clinton administration.

 

[tulc]

Personally I am waiting for the ACORN crowd to write a George Tiller ditty for their troops to march to like the Horst Wessel Song or maybe Hoist the Banner back in the 1930's.

They'll have to work hard to beat the Republican marching song: YouTube - The Pretenders- My City Was Gone (vinyl)
tulc(the messiah/republican leaders theme song)

 

[katautumn]

I don't know what the problem with sexual conservatism is. It has worked throughout history, and it continues to be the most effective.

It is the most effective in theory, but unrealistic in practice. And it has not "worked" throughout history. Pregnancy out of wedlock has happened since the beginning of time. It is nothing new. The difference is Western society's perception of unwed pregnancy. Women no longer risk being executed, imprisoned or sent away to a home for unwed pregnant women where their babies will be taken from them by force and put up on the adoption market.

You want education for what, the existence of condoms and birth control? I think folks know. I think the problem is half of all people are at or below average intelligence, most young people are immature, and young people hit puberty and want to have sex.

I realize people know birth control exists. The problem is lack of availability and complete knowledge on how to use it. You have kids that come from strict homes and they are afraid for their parents to find out, so they won't go to the drug store to buy condoms out of fear of getting caught. And I'll admit, it is not preferable for young teens to be out having sex. It comes with a tremendous amount of physical and emotional responsibility and many teens are not prepared to embrace that burden. The fact remains they will have sex. No, not all of them, but I figure if they're going to have it, it's better they have sex and be educated than be out having sex with no more education than being told, "just don't do it, because it's sinful and will ruin your life."

The solution is to let them within the traditional boundaries that they get to know one another, and marry either before (preferably) or after having a child, and commit the rest of their lives to each other and to the child and any further children.

Well obviously that is the ideal and despite how Christians feel this world has turned out, is still the norm.

There is no reality in which transient pleasure is more useful to a society or to its members than values such as these.

I'm not going to disagree with that. What I am disagreeing with is trying to enforce a puritanical society as the means to eliminate abortion.

What sort of person cannot find pleasure in both sexual satisfaction and commitment to love and family?

I don't know. I was sexually promiscuous for years and can attest that it was nothing more than a life of bondage. It brought me nothing but grief, but at the time it seemed like I was totally in control. I'm not advocating reckless sexuality by any means. What I am saying is that simply saying, "meh, just wait until you're married. The other stuff you don't need to worry about" isn't effective.