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Could Peter have done otherwise?

Always in His Presence

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You indicated that he had to deny Christ.
Where did I say that? Which one of my posts?

And can you comment on the five places I quoted in scripture where people’s personal wills went against God’s.
 
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zoidar

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Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” Peter said to him, “Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!” And all the disciples said the same.
— Matthew 26:33-35

Could Peter have stuck to his guns and shown Jesus that He was wrong?
Yes, Peter could have done differently, and Jesus would have known.

In those days Hezekiah became mortally ill. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him and said to him, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die and not live.’”
— Isaiah 38:1


Could this have happened differently to Hezekiah? Yes indeed... it did!

Then Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, and said, “Remember now, O Lord, I beseech You, how I have walked before You in truth and with a whole heart, and have done what is good in Your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly. Then the word of the Lord came to Isaiah, saying, “Go and say to Hezekiah, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of your father David, “I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; behold, I will add fifteen years to your life.
— Isaiah 38:2-5
 
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ozso

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Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” Peter said to him, “Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!” And all the disciples said the same.
— Matthew 26:33-35

Could Peter have stuck to his guns and shown Jesus that He was wrong?
If Peter wasn't going to deny Jesus, then Jesus wouldn't have told him he was going to.
 
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Hammster

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Hammster

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Yes, Peter could have done differently, and Jesus would have known.

In those days Hezekiah became mortally ill. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him and said to him, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die and not live.’”
— Isaiah 38:1


Could this have happened differently to Hezekiah? Yes indeed... it did!

Then Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, and said, “Remember now, O Lord, I beseech You, how I have walked before You in truth and with a whole heart, and have done what is good in Your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly. Then the word of the Lord came to Isaiah, saying, “Go and say to Hezekiah, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of your father David, “I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; behold, I will add fifteen years to your life.
— Isaiah 38:2-5p
So was this kinda like Jesus saying “I know something you don’t know”?
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” Peter said to him, “Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!” And all the disciples said the same.
— Matthew 26:33-35

Could Peter have stuck to his guns and shown Jesus that He was wrong?
I think this question means "Was saint Peter predestined to do what he did in fact do or not?"
 
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zoidar

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So was this kinda like Jesus saying “I know something you don’t know”?
If Peter hadn't chosen to be so proud he could have asked Jesus how to avoid this and Jesus might have given him a way out. In other words Jesus might have changed the prophectic word, like God changed the prophecy over Hezekiah.
 
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ozso

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So your answer is no.
I think Peter could have not chosen not to deny Jesus. But then Jesus wouldn't have said that he was going to. It's not so much a matter of predestination and free will as Jesus knowing the outcome ahead of time.
 
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Always in His Presence

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The Liturgist

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@hislegacy as someone who is no longer a Calvinist, I still agree with our pious and intellectually formidable friend @Hammster who I greatly wish would undertake to write works of theological study, surrounding soteriology and hamartiology and eschatology, but who indeed is competent to undertake the writing of a work of systematic theology and indeed could I think do a better job at it than even Karl Barth, owing to the economy of prose which characterizes his literary style compared to the florid and prolix manner in which I tend to write.

Specifically I would note that a great many non-Calvinists believe that insofar as actual free will exists, its exercise requires the specific intervention of God the Holy Spirit and is possible only in the context of deciding whether or not to believe on the Gospel of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, and furthermore it is agreed by everyone, whether Calvinist, Arminian, Confessional Lutheran, Orthodox or some other permutation, except for a few adherents of unusual doctrines such as Process Theology, that God retains complete knowledge about the decisions we will make and thus in that respect one could say our free will is apparently limited.
 
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Hammster

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I think this question means "Was saint Peter predestined to do what he did in fact do or not?"
Do you mean as in the same vein as

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
— Acts 2:23
 
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Hammster

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If Peter hadn't chosen to be so proud he could have asked Jesus how to avoid this and Jesus might have given him a way out. In other words Jesus might have changed the prophectic word, like God changed the prophecy over Hezekiah.
Satan had already been given permission to sift him, though.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
— Luke 22:31
 
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Hammster

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I think Peter could have not chosen not to deny Jesus. But then Jesus wouldn't have said that he was going to. It's not so much a matter of predestination and free will as Jesus knowing the outcome ahead of time.
How did Jesus know He would even tell him? Did He know it in the same way He knew Peter would deny Him?
 
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Always in His Presence

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@hislegacy as someone who is no longer a Calvinist, I still agree with our pious and intellectually formidable friend @Hammster who I greatly wish would undertake to write works of theological study, surrounding soteriology and hamartiology and eschatology, but who indeed is competent to undertake the writing of a work of systematic theology and indeed could I think do a better job at it than even Karl Barth, owing to the economy of prose which characterizes his literary style compared to the florid and prolix manner in which I tend to write.
Long run on sentences with changing subject are difficult at best to understand. Perhaps you could just say that you agree with Hammster even though you are no longer Calvinist?

I consider Hammster a personal friend and I respect him greatly. Even though there are distinct differences on certain matters.
Specifically I would note that a great many non-Calvinists believe that insofar as actual free will exists, its exercise requires the specific intervention of God the Holy Spirit and is possible only in the context of deciding whether or not to believe on the Gospel of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, and furthermore it is agreed by everyone, whether Calvinist, Arminian, Confessional Lutheran, Orthodox or some other permutation, except for a few adherents of unusual doctrines such as Process Theology, that God retains complete knowledge about the decisions we will make and thus in that respect one could say our free will is apparently limited.
An even longer run on sentence is not easier to understand.

BTW - I am not arguing Calvinism - I am discussing what the poster wrote and trying to understand what he is trying to get across because it seems cryptic with no specific point.

And there are more than just one or two who hold Masters degrees in Theology. (including myself)
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Do you mean as in the same vein as

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
— Acts 2:23
No, that verse seems to be different.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Peter’s will was to not deny Christ. So it looks like God’s foreknowledge overrides our will.
Then you stated
I’m not arguing against our ability to make free choices.
it sure sounds like a direct contradiction:

Can you very plainly state what you believe about free will - Please?
 
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