Could Peter have done otherwise?

[Hammster]

Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” Peter said to him, “Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!” And all the disciples said the same.
— Matthew 26:33-35

Could Peter have stuck to his guns and shown Jesus that He was wrong?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” Peter said to him, “Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!” And all the disciples said the same.
— Matthew 26:33-35

Could Peter have stuck to his guns and shown Jesus that He was wrong?

No, Jesus Christ of Nazareth gave Peter a prophetic word. It was absolutely going to happen.

 

[Hammster]

No, Jesus Christ of Nazareth gave Peter a prophetic word. It was absolutely going to happen.

Did Peter not have free will to do otherwise?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Did Peter not have free will to do otherwise?

It has nothing to do with free, will it is a prophesy. But if you would like to fold that in.... Peter's initial will was to stay strong and not deny Him but, the flesh is weak. Peter was not filled with His Holy Spirit at that time and he fell into denial, as Jesus Christ of Nazareth prophesied he would. Perfect example of God's foreknowledge.

 

[Hammster]

It has nothing to do with free, will it is a prophesy. But if you would like to fold that in.... Peter's initial will was to stay strong and not deny Him but, the flesh is weak. Peter was not filled with His Holy Spirit at that time and he fell into denial, as Jesus Christ of Nazareth prophesied he would. Perfect example of God's foreknowledge.

Peter’s will was to not deny Christ. So it looks like God’s foreknowledge overrides our will.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Peter’s will was to not deny Christ. So it looks like God’s foreknowledge overrides our will.

Haa, Ok. Let's not go there. We've been down this road may times. Be blessed!

 

[Hammster]

Haa, Ok. Let's not go there. We've been down this road may times. Be blessed!

We have?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

We have?

Ya.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” Peter said to him, “Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!” And all the disciples said the same.
— Matthew 26:33-35

Could Peter have stuck to his guns and shown Jesus that He was wrong?

No he could not. Why? Because there was more than just Peter involved.

Jesus gave us the basic primer on this one long before the above event, when He looked at Peter and spoke to Satan.

So who was standing there, saying the statement of Peter you quoted? Just Peter? I think not because Jesus chastened WHO?

Satan disobeys. That's just the way it is. And it is this way for everyone. All have sin, have, present tense, not sinless, Romans 3:9, and sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

Most when they read the scriptures seldom account for the unseen party in the drama, the tempter, Satan

 

[Hammster]

No he could not. Why? Because there was more than just Peter involved.

Jesus gave us the basic primer on this one long before the above event, when He looked at Peter and spoke to Satan.

So who was standing there, saying the statement of Peter you quoted? Just Peter? I think not because Jesus chastened WHO?

Satan disobeys. That's just the way it is. And it is this way for everyone. All have sin, have, present tense, not sinless, Romans 3:9, and sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

Most when they read the scriptures seldom account for the unseen party in the drama, the tempter, Satan

Are you saying that Peter was possessed?

 

[eleos1954]

Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” Peter said to him, “Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!” And all the disciples said the same.
— Matthew 26:33-35

Could Peter have stuck to his guns and shown Jesus that He was wrong?

Peter was self deceived and Jesus knew it. When a person is deceived they are unaware ... Jesus knew what would happen. Peter wasn't made aware of his deception until after it happened.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Are you saying that Peter was possessed?

Jesus showed us that Satan and devils work through people. Doesn't make them the same entities. Doesn't make Peter possessed, but deceived, yes.

Just as anyone is likewise deceived when they think they are immune

 

[Hammster]

Peter was self deceived and Jesus knew it. When a person is deceived they are unaware ... Jesus knew what would happen. Peter wasn't made aware of his deception until after it happened.

So Peter had no choice.

 

[d taylor]

-​

Peter was ready to die and stick to his earlier statement. So Peter made the choice to fight and i believe die, but Jesus told Peter to put away his sword. Why do you think he drew his sword, but Jesus kept Peter on track to fulfill Jesus' prophecy.

By telling Peter
But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”

 

[Always in His Presence]

Peter’s will was to not deny Christ. So it looks like God’s foreknowledge overrides our will.

No - that is incorrect. Peter was scared and ran away. If it was God's will - why then did Jesus have to forgive him?

There is no place in scripture that God overrides personal will.

For scripture to be accurate, Peter had to abandon Jesus.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

Isa 1:19 If you are willing and obedient,
You shall eat the good of the land;

Not if God is willing

Matt 11:13 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matt 22:2 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come.

Matt 23:36 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

John 5:39 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

I can post more - but I think the reader understands the example. There are 6 clearly written scripture that demonstrate that God did not override human will - even when eternal life was on the line.

 

[Guojing]

Did Peter not have free will to do otherwise?

Think of God as living outside time, he could see your past, present and future simultaneously.

So when he sees Peter denying him in the future, he knows it in the present. But he did not cause Peter to deny him.

 

[Hammster]

No - that is incorrect. Peter was scared and ran away. If it was God's will - why then did Jesus have to forgive him?

There is no place in scripture that God overrides personal will.

For scripture to be accurate, Peter had to abandon Jesus.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

Isa 1:19 If you are willing and obedient,
You shall eat the good of the land;

Not if God is willing

Matt 11:13 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matt 22:2 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come.

Matt 23:36 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

John 5:39 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

I can post more - but I think the reader understands the example. There are 6 clearly written scripture that demonstrate that God did not override human will - even when eternal life was on the line.

So Peter had to deny Christ, but his will was free.

Doesn’t sound free to me.

 

[Hammster]

Think of God as living outside time, he could see your past, present and future simultaneously.

So when he sees Peter denying him in the future, he knows it in the present. But he did not cause Peter to deny him.

Did Jesus also see Himself telling Peter he would deny Him?

 

[Always in His Presence]

So Peter had to deny Christ, but his will was free.

Doesn’t sound free to me.

Peter chose to deny Christ. Even though in his bravado he claimed he would not - he in fact did.

That is why Jesus restored him.

 

[Hammster]

Peter chose to deny Christ. Even though in his bravado he claimed he would not - he in fact did.

That is why Jesus restored him.

You indicated that he had to deny Christ.