- Sep 27, 2019
- 4,866
- 5,027
- 35
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
I will address your questions which will generate more questions.
Thanks for your thoughtful post. Here are my questions...
God’s objective to do all He can to help willing individuals in fulfilling their objective.
Agreed, with the proviso that anyone who was not willing to find God in this life - which may be for very understandable reasons such as the death of a loved one which they can't make sense of, the misrepresentation of God by self-identified Christians which is a common experience - does not mean that God is not willing to help them see Him more clearly. A good teacher can help transform an unwilling school child by fostering a love for the subject.
...Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love.
Agreed.
Also, if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type Love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)
Agreed, but by gradually revealing Himself to someone who may even have hated Him, God can turn someone around. This wouldn't be God forcing Himself on someone, more just allowing people to see Him less darkly and more clearly, where love will naturally follow.
This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).
I'm not sure why we cant learn about this Love. Anyone who loves God has learnt to in one way or another.
This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.
Agreed.
All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them, burden them, to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).
I agree, but I don't think it's a strict correlation. The extent to which you rise though loving God is not directly proportional to the depth to which you have sunk.
This “Love” Paul is talking about is only a Godly type Love, which today only Christians can have
Depends how you define Christians. As Jesus said, if you do an act of kindness to the least of people you do it to Him. This means that loving the hungry (in a real way by actually giving them food rather than sermons) is the same as loving Jesus which, to me, is the only meaningful definition of a Christian.
f am an atheistic humanist trying to sell people on the value of being a humanist, does some “good” deed, is that “good” for those observing this “good” as compared to, someone doing it because of Godly type Love and others come to realize that.
But is love for others different than love for God? Mother Theresa said that when she was feeding the starving she felt that she was feeding Jesus who that person was made in the image of, whether they were Christian or not.
some people believe, since you can do absolutely nothing to obtain God’s charity (it would be a work)
Whenever faith is seen as something that is has to measure up to a certain gold standard then it is also being viewed as a work.
If the prodigal son decided to be macho, hang in there, take the punishment he fully deserves and not further disturb his father with undeserved requests thus dying in the pigsty, what more could the father have done to help the son accept his charity as charity? Did the father fail in anyway, even if the son does not return?
No, but it is a parable with all the limitations that entails. God the Father has much more resources and time at His disposal than the prodigal's father had.
Yes, people would “say”: they accept God’s Love, if they “Knew” hell was their only alternative, but hell is like putting a gun to their head and saying accept my charity or else. Would that truly be accepting God’s Love as pure undeserved charity or because you have no other choice?
That isn't an issue for me because I don't believe a threatening hell like this exists.
God succeeds in providing the choice to all mature adults to become like God himself in that they truly have His Love.
And if they're not mature when they die, God will help them mature in the next life.
Why would Christians have a “fear” of the abyss, that is not where they are going?
Non-Christians as I have explained: do not have Godly type Love and cannot be motivated by Love, yet they can be motivated by fear.
To have a fear of hell, you have to have some believe in the Christian God and if you have just that little faith, that faith is enough to accept God’s help.
I would say the opposite because I think the fear of hell is a man-made, Dante like concept, not a biblical one. I also don't categorise Christians and non-Christians in the way you do because of the parable of the sheep and the goats and Jesus's emphasis on love for others rather than declaring assent towards a set of intellectual beliefs.
The soldier battling his hated enemy can surrender to his hated enemy and while still hating his enemy, be willing to humbly accept pure undeserved charity from his enemy. God will shower such hater of Him with unbelievable wonderful gifts, which will then cause the soldier to Love Him.
That's a good an explanation of universalism as I've ever heard!
Upvote
0