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Could ANY conservative President not be hated? Thanks Trump...

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Servant68, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Servant68

    Servant68 Sleepless 300 miles from Seattle

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    President Trump makes it easy to not like him. He's always scowling, tweets ridiculous things, has been caught on tape saying some very ugly things, and has shown himself to be a hateful, insulting, low-class, and generally dishonorable person.

    The media and the left has gone to ridiculous levels of bias and hatred of the man and, it seems, of all conservatives. Even the comments by those on the left on a Christian site are dripping with contempt and hatred for fellow Believers who dare to be conservative.

    We saw the universal love and admiration by the media of Obama. He could do no wrong and any possible scandal involving him, his administration, or his family was overlooked and not reported on.

    If Trump leaves office for any reason before his term is up and Mike Pence becomes President, I think the media and the left will then attack him like a ravenous pack of wolves.

    In fact, I am pretty sure ANY person no matter the color or gender, and no matter how nice or honorable of a person they happen to be who is conservative, will be mercilessly attacked by the modern media in America.

    I did not support Trump for President because although I agreed with his political views, I despised his lack of character and his propensity for constant buffoonery. I think his utter failure to conduct himself in an honorable and respectful manner has ruined the chance for America to counter the destructive policies of the left.

    He made it easy for the RINOs in Washington to not act on principle and instead further their own selfish and evil agenda of increasing power for themselves.
     
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I like what you wrote, with one big exception. It basically concerns this part of your message--

    My perception is that his liberal enemies targeted him from the moment he was elected. That was long before he took office. They styled themselves the Resistance and vowed to do everything possible to keep him 1) from assuming office as president, and if that was not possible to do, to 2) bring the government to a standstill by using all the instruments of obstructionism available to them, leading to 3) impeachment and conviction on whatever charges might work.

    Whatever one thinks about Trump's ethics or demeanor, any other Republican who had snatched away the victory that the Democrats thought they deserved would have received similar treatment (Pence included, as you rightly noted).
     
  3. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think that people are reviled because they are conservative. I'm pretty conservative myself.

    I think that there is a a concern that some conservatives have sold their souls for the opportunities that a Trump presidency might offer.

    For instance, many here might disagree with John McCain, ... but at least he's regarded as a conservative, along with some others, who has integrity. Others ... not so much ...
     
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  4. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    If a conservative one ever gets elected we might find out. :wave:
    tulc(otherwise isn't sure how it'll ever be known) :sorry:
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  5. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

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    Well then, how is it bias for anyone on the left to notice the same things about him?

    I haven't seen that at all. I don't see threads wondering how any Christian can be a conservative, but often I have seen threads by conservatives stating that a liberal or even a Democrat couldn't possibly be a Christian - or a "real" American.

    That's patent nonsense. He did have the typical honeymoon period, but that was soon over. Not reported on? That's also demonstrably false.

    That's probably because you're projecting.

    See, that's the problem - despising and labeling people who don't meet every check mark as sufficiently conservative. Tell me again, who's being hateful?
     
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  6. StrivingFollower

    StrivingFollower New Member

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    Trump is just a vicious counter-puncher. I wish I had half his confidence. I'd be breaking down if I got so many insane media attacks.
     
  7. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Programmer Extraordinaire Supporter

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    Sure, there are numerous conservatives who could run and not be hated...

    The problem is, those conservatives get labelled as "not real conservatives" or "not conservative enough" from the people on the far right.

    For example, this guy
    Charlie Baker - Wikipedia

    ...or this gent
    Larry Hogan on the Issues

    ...or former Governor and Libertarian VP candidate Bill Weld

    Any of those guys could run and while many on the left would disagree with some of their positions, they certainly wouldn't be hated.


    Now, if you're asking if a person who holds the views that a far right individual would want in order to give them the "official conservative in the eyes of the far right" merit badge, then no...you'll likely have a hard time finding one that isn't hated...but that's precisely because many of the "qualities" that the far right seem to want in a candidate are rather hate-able qualities.

    If their expectation is
    "we'll only accept a candidate who speaks ill of immigrants, wants to keep gays in an inferior status, forces our religious views on everyone else, denies eco-science for religious reasons and spite against the democrats, and promises to roll back 30 years worth of various rights rulings and legislation" ....then yeah, whatever person is willing to fill that role isn't going to be terribly likable in the eyes of many.


    ...and in terms of the "Obama could do no wrong in the eyes of the media". That's simply not true.
    Media doesn't hold back on Obama

    It's a case where the things the media was criticizing him for weren't "juicy" or "attention getting" and had no shock value and instead pertained to serious policy issues/flaws (which the American public find less interesting than Twitter rants so they didn't pay attention...unfortunately).
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  8. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    When the tax plan taxes effect and the economy roars to life as expected, we can pretty much expect eight years.
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    A honeymoon period of seven years isn't really short, and I think you must be trying hard to forget how much the Messiah was adored by Dems and the Media.

    He won the Nobel Peace prize even before he did anything. He was seldom satirized by cartoonists or comics except for his pattern of speech, which was his own but nothing embarrassing. There was a noticeable avoidance of saying anything much about or even photographing his daughters. We were told that that would be wrong, wrong, wrong. Compare that with the claims that our president's son is mentally off and should be killed that came early in the Trump era. His wife is condemned and ridiculed for being a Catholic and speaking with a foreign accept--by the Democrat Party, no less!

    And I have to remind you that his colossal failures, like starting a war with Libya, Cash for Clunkers, the longest recession in our history, and his race-baiting went by with very little criticism.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  10. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Programmer Extraordinaire Supporter

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    I hope you're right (and I'm wrong) about that...but I'll be shocked if that's how it plays out.

    This trickle down stuff has been tried numerous times before and what sounds great on paper tends to fall flat in real-world application.

    It operates solely on the premise that "when the rich get more money, they use it to hire more people and give raises to existing employees". ...and if that's what they actually did?...it would work out quite nicely.

    However, when this has been tried in the past, how it actually works is the rich immediately take 30% of the new found revenue and put it into savings (where it's not helping anyone but them), most is spent in ways that don't have a broad-spectrum stimulating effect, and only a very small sliver actually finds its way into the hands of middle and lower class Americans.

    Trickle-down economics says that the Reagan and Bush tax cuts should have helped people in all income levels. Instead, the opposite occurred. Income inequality worsened. Between 1979 and 2005, after-tax household income rose 6 percent for the bottom fifth. That sounds great until you see what happened for the top fifth. Their income increased by 80 percent. The top 1 percent saw their income triple. Instead of trickling down, it appears that prosperity trickled up.
     
  11. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, trump was hated long before he took office.

    The hate carries over to conservatives only because they continue to consider Trump a conservative. He isn't one, nor has he ever been one.

    Once the tax bill is signed, Congress can start to move away from Trump. They will have little continuing use for him. Of course, they will continue to support the appointment of conservative judges. Beyond that, Trump will be pretty much on his own.
    ======
     
  12. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    The only folks who expect this are the Republicans who choose to ignore what we know about economics.
     
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  13. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    .

    And the ones down playing it werecalling for a stock market crash if he was elected.
     
  14. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    Which economists were predicting that the market would crash?
     
  15. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    The ones you will find when you research it.
     
  16. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    Oh, are you one of the guys who expects other to verify your claims for you? You should all have badges or something; I can't ever seem to remember who's in that club.
     
  17. Servant68

    Servant68 Sleepless 300 miles from Seattle

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    All the Experts Who Told Us Stocks Would Crash if Trump Won - Breitbart

    If the anti-Trump fear mongering were just a harmless fad–the market intellectual’s version of pet rocks or fidget spinners–we could afford to let it slip down the memory hole. But it is important to memorialize the errors of the pre-election pundits, if only to remind ourselves that many of those self-styled wise men got the most important story of our era so badly wrong. After all, some of the worst of the bunch are still out there predicting doom and gloom from Trump’s policies.

    So here is a rogues gallery of those who said the rally was impossible and boldly predicted the crash that was never to materialize.

    • Mark Cuban. “I can say with 100 percent certainty that there is a really good chance we could see a huge, huge correction,” Cuban told CNN. “That uncertainty potentially as the president of the United States — that’s the last thing Wall Street wants to hear.”
    • Erik Jones. “You would see incredible pressure on stock prices if Trump wins and everyone flooding into rare metals like gold and into bonds” in the U.S., Germany and the United Kingdom, Erik Jones, professor at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies, told Politico’s Ben White.
    • Justin Wolfers and Eric Zitzewitz. “Given the magnitude of the price movements, we estimate that market participants believe that a Trump victory would reduce the value of the S&P 500, the UK, and Asian stock markets by 10-15%,” University of Michigan professor Wolfers and Dartmouth professor Zitzewitz wrote in a report that supposedly scientifically forecast the market’s reaction to Trump’s victory
    • Andrew Ross Sorkin. The New York Times clomnist and CNBC anchor wrote: “In all likelihood, a Trump victory would lead to a swift, knee-jerk sell-off. Many investors will choose to sell stocks and ask questions later.” In fairness to Sorkin he hedged his believe in the sell-off by writing: In truth, it’s impossible to predict how the markets would settle into a Trump presidency, despite the speculation on all sides. In all likelihood, it will take time for investors to truly make sense and “math out” how his policies would affect the economy.
    • Lawrence G. McDonald of ACG Analytics hedged also, predicting a massive sell-off followed by a relief rally. “Trump will create a colossal panic, but the relief rally will be outstanding,” he told Sorkin. Well, he got the rally right, anyway.
    • Simon Johnson, a former chief economist of the IMF, a professor at MIT Sloan, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, and co-founder of a leading economics blog, The Baseline Scenario had perhaps the most panicked reaction, in keeping with his status as America’s most authoritative economists. “With the United States’ presidential election on November 8, and a series of elections and other political decisions fast approaching in Europe, now is a good time to ask whether the global economy is in good enough shape to withstand another major negative shock. The answer, unfortunately, is that growth and employment around the world look fragile. A big adverse surprise – like the election of Donald Trump in the US – would likely cause the stock market to crash and plunge the world into recession,” Johnson wrote on October 29, 2016.
    • Ian Winer, director of equity sales trading for the securities firm Wedbush, predicted a 50 percent fall in stocks if Trump won.
    • Bridgewater Associates. “On Tuesday, Bridgewater Associates sent out a note to its clients predicting that the Dow Jones Industrial Average could plunge nearly 2,000 points in one day if Trump is elected president. That would be the biggest one-day slump in stock market history, by more than double, besting the 777 point plunge that happened on October 29, 2008, at the high of the panic surrounding the financial crisis. The drop would translate into a 10.4% dive, and immediately send the stock market into correction territory,’ Fortune‘s Stephen Gandel reported.
    • Tobias Levkovich, Citigroup’s chief U.S. equity analyst. “A win for Donald Trump in next week’s election could take a big bite out U.S. stocks, according to the latest forecast from Citi,” CNN Money reported. “In a note to clients late Thursday, the bank said the S&P 500 will fall by 3% to 5% immediately if Trump is elected. A victory by Hillary Clinton wouldn’t move stocks significantly, it predicted.”
    • Macroeconomic Advisers. “If Donald Trump wins the election, U.S. stocks (and likely many other markets overseas) will almost certainly tank,” Heather Long wrote for CNN Money. “How big of a drop? Forecasting firm Macroeconomic Advisors predicts an 8% fall in the U.S. A new paper out Friday from the Brookings Institute projects a 10% to 15% nosedive. You get the idea.”
    While many of market watchers remain allergic to giving Trump any credit for the massive rise in the stock market, there’s no denying that the experts got the direction badly wrong prior to the election.
     
  18. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Programmer Extraordinaire Supporter

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    Ah, so because one or two companies and a half dozen people speculated incorrectly, that means the "experts are always wrong"?

    In reality, there were more experts who got it right.

    Seems like this is just trying to instill the idea of "Trust Trump instead of the experts" so that people won't question is questionable policy prescriptions

    That remains to be seen...when he does something that actually impacts the stock market, we can see if people give him credit or not.

    Is there a particular policy of his that's already had an impact on the market? Or is this just one of those scenarios where people are giving him credit because he happened to be the guy in the chair when the market had an upturn?
     
  19. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

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    “When Conservatives bring their people, they’re not bringing our best. They’re not bringing you. They’re not bringing you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing racism. They’re bringing xenophobia. They’re conspiracy theorists. And some, I assume, are good people.”
     
  20. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Perhaps you've forgotten that the Great Recession started under GWB's watch with the Housing Crash. Obama's years were nothing but RECOVERY from that deep financial pit.

    I know, because I more than refunded my 401k during Obama's tenure ...
     
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