Could America be inching closer to civil war?

[mmksparbud]

What President doesn't want to continue to serve his country as President, if he can? And what President hides this fact? Obama certainly didn't. Did the mainstream media play him up as the next Hitler for wanting and talking about a second term as President, as they do with Trump? No.



Which is why, since assuming the POTUS office, Trump has donated his presidential salary to various federal agencies, right? Because a person who doesn't care "didley squat for anyone but himself" would do this, of course. What a selfish donator Trump is, eh?! Giving his salary away. Selfish...

Trump-O-Meter: | PolitiFact

You're spouting Leftist propaganda, not the truth.



Baloney. Just more propaganda. "Attempted coup" is a ridiculous characterization of the situation and is, in fact, the Left "calling the kettle black." If any "coup" has gone on, it is has been by the Left (aka Democrats, mainstream media and Big Tech - Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube, etc.) through the incredible election corruption and manipulation it has perpetrated upon the American public. Now, there's a "coup."

Not surprise. Horror. Biden's in bed with the CCP (recall his son and bagman, Hunter Biden, taking millions from Xi Xiping) which is, I think, ultimately behind much of the political divisiveness and electoral corruption bringing America down into Communism. Through Biden and the nascent Communist Leftists he represents, America continues its journey (though, now more openly and quickly) toward becoming the next Cuba, or Venezuela or, if Xi Xiping's plans come true, communist China.



Have the measures taken so far, the oppressive, authoritarian lockdowns, halted the spread of the virus? No. The only thing that has been done that may have a serious countering effect upon the spread of the virus is the unprecedented rapid development of vaccines accomplished under Trump's administration.

The lockdowns are causing at least as much harm as good. In fact, I think, much more. Small businesses are collapsing, savings are disappearing while debts mount, jobs are lost, prolonged isolation is provoking depression, loneliness, addictions and suicide, and the national economy is mounding up astronomical debt that heralds an incredible economic collapse.

The tail is wagging the dog. It is a relatively small minority of people who are seriously vulnerable to the virus. And they are so because they have, as they've aged, accumulated co-morbidities that make them very susceptible to the virus. Many who are infected have no symptoms at all. And those who get discernibly ill with the virus have a 97-99% recovery rate. But, for the sake of a small vulnerable minority, the entire nation is being made prisoner, devastated economically and socially in the process in ways that will bear terrible fruit in the next few years. Government over-reach is being normalized and the erosion of personal rights and freedoms yielded without protest.

How delighted Xi Xiping must be.



You might want to look up the phrase "useful idiot."

Useful idiot----

In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders. The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.


Thank You!! first time I heard the expression and it is the perfect term to describe Trump supporters!!

US allies say Trump attempted coup with help from federal law enforcement - Business Insider
The supporters of President Donald Trump who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday to stop the ratification of President-elect Joe Biden's election victory were attempting a violent coup that multiple European security officials said appeared to have at least tacit support from aspects of the US federal agencies responsible for securing the Capitol complex.

Insider spoke with three officials on Thursday morning: a French police official responsible for public security in a key section of central Paris, and two intelligence officials from NATO countries who directly work in counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations involving the US, terrorism, and Russia.

They said the circumstantial evidence available pointed to what would be openly called a coup attempt in any other nation. None were willing to speak on the record because of the dire nature of the subject.

 

[mmksparbud]

Indeed it does, by proving my point! You have absolutely no clue why that guy is wearing that hoodie, and you assume without evidence that he's doing it because he's a racist and not because he wants to illustrate his belief that the election's being stolen by a bunch of would-be totalitarians. That's the same thing that was done to the protesters in Michigan last summer: they were waving Nazi symbols because they were calling Gov. Whitmer a totalitarian thug, but they were accused in the media of doing it because they were Nazi sympathizers. More lies.

And you do this in order to bootstrap it into an accusation that Trump is a racist and xenophobe, without bothering to provide any evidence of anything he did that could reasonably support that slander. You should be embarrassed and ashamed.

Ask any Jew and he w3ill tell y0u what this means. Trump is all about racism. Yes, His daughter is married to as Jews, and he has been pro Israel compared to Hilary and others, but his supporters are racists and bigots. I know many of them and know their feelings about blacks and other races. Did you see any blacks during those riots? I didn't. What you do see is people like the one above and the Confederate flag. So don't tell me there is no proof---the rioters themselves are the prove!

US allies say Trump attempted coup with help from federal law enforcement - Business Insider

The supporters of President Donald Trump who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday to stop the ratification of President-elect Joe Biden's election victory were attempting a violent coup that multiple European security officials said appeared to have at least tacit support from aspects of the US federal agencies responsible for securing the Capitol complex.

Insider spoke with three officials on Thursday morning: a French police official responsible for public security in a key section of central Paris, and two intelligence officials from NATO countries who directly work in counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations involving the US, terrorism, and Russia.

They said the circumstantial evidence available pointed to what would be openly called a coup attempt in any other nation. None were willing to speak on the record because of the dire nature of the subject.

 

[chilehed]

Ask any Jew and he w3ill tell y0u what this means. Trump is all about racism. Yes, His daughter is married to as Jews, and he has been pro Israel compared to Hilary and others, but his supporters are racists and bigots. I know many of them and know their feelings about blacks and other races. Did you see any blacks during those riots? I didn't. What you do see is people like the one above and the Confederate flag. So don't tell me there is no proof---the rioters themselves are the prove!

US allies say Trump attempted coup with help from federal law enforcement - Business Insider

The supporters of President Donald Trump who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday to stop the ratification of President-elect Joe Biden's election victory were attempting a violent coup that multiple European security officials said appeared to have at least tacit support from aspects of the US federal agencies responsible for securing the Capitol complex.

Insider spoke with three officials on Thursday morning: a French police official responsible for public security in a key section of central Paris, and two intelligence officials from NATO countries who directly work in counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations involving the US, terrorism, and Russia.

They said the circumstantial evidence available pointed to what would be openly called a coup attempt in any other nation. None were willing to speak on the record because of the dire nature of the subject.

So I take it that you concede that you can't actually show any actual evidence that Trump's a racist and xenophobe? You have nothing more than people calling him that and guilt by involuntary association? Nothing that he himself has said or done?

Like I said, you should be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself.

 

[mmksparbud]

So I take it that you concede that you can't actually show any actual evidence that Trump's a racist and xenophobe? You have nothing more than people calling him that and guilt by involuntary association? Nothing that he himself has said or done?

Like I said, you should be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself.

I already proved it. His rioting friends were all white, anti-Semitic, white supremists. I asked---did you see one black person amongst the rioters?? You have not provided any answer to that. Those that have been arrested will have to face the consequences of their actions. I'm sure you are amongst the supporters of all this violence. Your comments are proof of that. Pure garbage and supporter of a monstrous man who committed crimes that he needs to be made accountable for----if they can prove he is mentally stable to be held for trial--they may have to just send him to a mental ward instead of a trial after they examine him! I have nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed of---I do not support violent takeover of a lawfully installed president--you do. That is something to be thoroughly ashamed and embarrassed about. Anyone who supports this mentally deranged conman has plenty to be ashamed of.
He was friends with Epstein and frequented his many child molesting parties--plenty of pictures of the two of them partying together. The lawsuits waiting for him include rape of then 13 year old girls--he has cheated on every one of his 3 wives, he brags of his grabbing of women by the crotch whether they like it or not because he feels he has the power to do so---he openly has boasted about the contractors he has cheated out of their money by just letting them take him to court and keeping them in the courts so long they just finally give up! I guess you approve of all this that he has openly boasted about---so NO! I am not ashamed of my dislike of this conman! You are the one that supports him, not I.

 

[mmksparbud]

It's about time!!

Dominion Voting Systems files $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit against pro-Trump election attorney Sidney Powell (msn.com)

• Dominion Voting Systems has filed a defamation suit against the pro-Trump attorney Sidney Powell, seeking $1.3 billion in damages.
• Powell, a former lawyer for President Donald Trump's campaign, has pushed a debunked conspiracy theory that the election-technology company falsified results in the 2020 presidential election.
• Dominion's new lawsuit outlines numerous falsehoods in Powell's election lawsuits and public statements about the election and Dominion's involvement.
• The voting technology company alleged that her conspiracy theories were all the more damaging because they were amplified by Trump and right-wing media outlets.

 

[GDL]

Well said

Thank you, Wolseley. I'm also enjoying reading your thoughts.

 

[mmksparbud]

I do hope they really go through with it!!

UPDATE 1-U.S. House Democrats to introduce impeachment charges against Trump on Monday -sources (msn.com)

WASHINGTON, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives plan to introduce new articles of impeachment against Republican President Donald Trump on Monday, calling for his removal from office, two people familiar with the matter said on Friday.

 

[chilehed]

I already proved it.

All you've done is explain why you're convinced of it, and all you've proven is that your reasoning is completely irrational.

NO! I am not ashamed of my dislike of this conman!

I didn't at all say that you should be, and you thinking otherwise just displays sloppiness in understanding what's said to you. It's abundantly clear that I said that you should be ashamed of the kind of lazy slander you're throwing about.

You are the one that supports him, not I.

More sloppy thinking. I've never said that I support him, that's yet another thing you've made up in your own head. I think the guy's a blowhard, and the only reason I voted for him was because he wasn't as bad as the totalitarian thugs of the Democrat party.

Rave on as you wish. Any reasonable observer will see it for what it is. I'm done here.

 

[GDL]

They said the circumstantial evidence available pointed to what would be openly called a coup attempt in any other nation.

This is so stupid I'm not surprised to see it posted. A minute fraction of an overall peaceful & lawful protest splinters off & goes stupid as it only can. And we're concerned that the US with all of its police & guard capabilities can be overthrown in some supposed coup of a few! The heightened drama is almost overwhelming.

I haven't looked to see any estimates of how many people attended the mainly peaceful march. But, let's say some number of thousands, tens of thousands, or pick your reasonable number, took over & occupied the capital and could seriously demand whatever their coup was for. Maybe then we could talk coup. Rhetoric, drama, nonsense.

I too condemn the criminality & call on legal remedies against the few who committed the crimes. The fringe on both sides and their conspiratorial funders should be dealt with by legal means & authorities, if there are any left who take such things seriously and can actually close cases apart from years of investigations and whatever else they do with our resources. But, just as offensive is the input of those who push the narrative of extremes.

 

[GDL]

I do hope they really go through with it!!

How surprising.

 

[GDL]

Trump is all about racism.

his supporters are racists and bigots.

As if the second proves the first and as if you're remotely capable of knowing all who support him. Care to venture a guess as to the number out of approx. 74m who fit your allegations?

On the other hand, forget I asked.

 

[mmksparbud]

All you've done is explain why you're convinced of it, and all you've proven is that your reasoning is completely irrational.

Thank you! Coming from you that is indeed a Christian complement!

I didn't at all say that you should be, and you thinking otherwise just displays sloppiness in understanding what's said to you. It's abundantly clear that I said that you should be ashamed of the kind of lazy slander you're throwing about.

Again=---Thank you! your Christian complements are overwhelming---but there was nothing lazy about it---took a lot of research, and there was plenty of info when you look!! For behold, the truth shall set you free!.

More sloppy thinking. I've never said that I support him, that's yet another thing you've made up in your own head. I think the guy's a blowhard, and the only reason I voted for him was because he wasn't as bad as the totalitarian thugs of the Democrat party.

Rave on as you wish. Any reasonable observer will see it for what it is. I'm done here.

Oh, how sad, sorry to see such a keen mind go. You don't support him, but you voted for him and defend all his terrorist friends----Isn't that kinds of like tieing your shoe laces together but not understand why you can't walk? Whatever you say.

 

[mmksparbud]

This is so stupid I'm not surprised to see it posted. A minute fraction of an overall peaceful & lawful protest splinters off & goes stupid as it only can. And we're concerned that the US with all of its police & guard capabilities can be overthrown in some supposed coup of a few! The heightened drama is almost overwhelming.

I haven't looked to see any estimates of how many people attended the mainly peaceful march. But, let's say some number of thousands, tens of thousands, or pick your reasonable number, took over & occupied the capital and could seriously demand whatever their coup was for. Maybe then we could talk coup. Rhetoric, drama, nonsense.

I too condemn the criminality & call on legal remedies against the few who committed the crimes. The fringe on both sides and their conspiratorial funders should be dealt with by legal means & authorities, if there are any left who take such things seriously and can actually close cases apart from years of investigations and whatever else they do with our resources. But, just as offensive is the input of those who push the narrative of extremes.

Very peaceful--only 5 people killed. How many does it take for you? People are just investigating the cause of all this---something that some people are apparently opposed to.

 

[mmksparbud]

Finally.

Twitter permanently suspends Donald Trump's account (msn.com)

 

[rjs330]

Sure, but the Left is probably how we got Trump in the first place, as pushback against progressivism.

Though, maybe the non-Trump Republicans will finally have a spine this time around.

Not if his name is Romney.

 

[rjs330]

Indeed it does, by proving my point! You have absolutely no clue why that guy is wearing that hoodie, and you assume without evidence that he's doing it because he's a racist and not because he wants to illustrate his belief that the election's being stolen by a bunch of would-be totalitarians. That's the same thing that was done to the protesters in Michigan last summer: they were waving Nazi symbols because they were calling Gov. Whitmer a totalitarian thug, but they were accused in the media of doing it because they were Nazi sympathizers. More lies.

And you do this in order to bootstrap it into an accusation that Trump is a racist and xenophobe, without bothering to provide any evidence of anything he did that could reasonably support that slander. You should be embarrassed and ashamed.

The left have been doing that for years now. They really have no credibility anymore. The lies, misinformation, twisting of facts is all they do anymore.

 

[rjs330]

Agree, but 12 years is probably light.

One of the problems with the lawful side is that they usually do not allow themselves (or maybe cannot) get their minds down into the depths of realizing that the lawless don't play by the rules. Little to nothing is off the table when there are no rules and when hypocrisy becomes a strategy instead of a barrier.

What will be interesting to see as time moves forward is whether or not enough of the 75m who voted for Trump abandon the course and allow the GOP to remain in this weak condition. I'm thinking no. But it may not matter according to some who think there will be some deeper entrenchment taking place in the next 4 years.

If Trump remains in the game instead of settling down on a ranch - and he does not seem to be the low profile, behind the scenes type - then things will get interesting. He has a very large subscriber base and maybe he'll continue the battle in the forefront unlike most who have gone before him.

Some of the base seems to be saying he has altered the GOP. It seems many are settled on seeing this change fully accomplished and be rid of the same ole party that has actually become not the same ole party, but has melded into more a part of a single party now just acting as if it is two.

IF people continue to pay attention and be involved in all gov't activities down to the lower levels, then the DC business as usual will change. IF not, then those who don't play by the "rules" will be making ever more harsh & stupid rules for the rest to keep. It's been growing into this slowly. But at some point slowly reaches its goal.

This is not new. It is a historical cycle of and swing between liberty to tyranny to liberty to tyranny... This is why the founders said they were handing over something that needed to be kept. All these forms of gov't are experiments. The USC is paper. It governs those who agree to be governed by it. It's the same as the LAW. It needs to be on hearts not on paper.

The ultimate issue is one of standards. Whose standards will we agree to live by? And this is why there really will never be a real peace in the world as it is. People cannot agree on what is right vs. wrong - good vs. bad. When the pendulum is swung too far one way, the battles intensify to push back to a balance we can live with. But the pendulum does not remain at center. Interestingly it does move slowly though, so some get to live in times of relative peace, until they don't. Others are born into the middle of the conflict.

As for the racist & bigotry stuff, there's always fringe on both sides. And there are always those who want to define the standards of what is and is not racism & bigotry & etc... There are also false flags strategies. Do the bulk in either party support the actions of the fringe? Surely not. Not yet anyway.

Interesting times. Nothing new under the sun...

I agree mostly. I guess the left has lied and manipulated the truth for so long now, gotten away with cheating, lying, hypocritical behavior for so long now. I think the Democrats have fully embraced the radical left now. It's no longer the party of Kennedy or Joe Lieberman.

The hatred and vitriol if the left now is beyond the pale. Yes we have seen this kind of stuff in times past in history, but I think it's unprecedented in the US now. At least not since the days if Jim Crow. And that was just the southern Democrats involved in that.

 

[GDL]

Very peaceful--only 5 people killed. How many does it take for you? People are just investigating the cause of all this---something that some people are apparently opposed to.

I said "mainly peaceful." Given the numbers there, and given the few [fringe] in numbers [seemingly at this point] actually involved in criminal behavior (whoever they are & whatever their ideologies & all misrepresentations of who agrees with them), and given the reports [so far] that a few died from apparently non-violent causes, yes, "mainly peaceful."

I also said I don't condone the criminality & do call on legal remedies against it. To be clear, this means I don't condone any deaths - whether actually & specifically caused by some criminality or whether some died because their bodies couldn't handle the situation they were surrounded by or even involved in (???) (they'll probably just be included in the pandemic statistics).

How many does it take for you to push the narrative of a "coup"? Do you really think these jokers had a well-executed plan to take over the US Gov't? What were their actual numbers? What was their weaponry? How would they pull this off, exactly? Was their new government to include the demand that all leaders be shirtless & wear horns on their heads? Do you think this is representative of most to all Trump supporters?

The deaths were unnecessary, tragic, and were whatever they turn out to be. The coup narrative is nonsense and meant to make it sound like Trump called for it and many to most of his supporters followed the call.

Did you catch the video of the guy in attendance that overheard a few criminals say it was time to get things going so it would seem that Trump's people were doing this? He said he heard it, saw the start, and made haste to get out. A reporter caught him on his way & he was obviously shook & mad.

So, what's real and what's not? What do we actually know is real? 5 (?) real deaths - granted & tragic. Coup - not granted. Fringe criminals - absolutely. To discredit Trump intentionally or unintentionally (criminals thinking Trump supports them) - likely. A worthy & right cause for the mainly peaceful part of the assembly - IMO, yes. Reveals a massive divide in the US - to be sure. Trump at fault for the divide - not hardly. Reveals to ever greater degrees how broken our system is - certainly. What happens from here? - good question - time tells.

 

[rjs330]

Wrong!! What he wants is to continue being President, he has said so often enough, or have you not paid attention to what he actually says? And he doesn't care didley squat for anyone but himself, certainly not this country. He has decided to change his language a bit and now says he just wants a fair election. This attempted coup showed the world exactly what he wants-=--to take over the country, to eliminate over 6 million votes and steal them for himself, he wants to stay away from the over a dozen lawsuits waiting for him and his family after he is no longer president.
You and your fellow fear mongers may be in for a surprise after Biden takes over. He has a country to protect from a virus that he takes seriously and doesn't try to laugh it of as though it's no big deal--thousands upon thousands have died and all he can say is---"It is what it is." Well, guess what, he lost the election---fair and square, no evidence of fraud and his lawyers all had to admit there was no fraud before judges that he appointed---IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!

Trump did more for this country and it's people than has been done since the 90s. And that includes minorities who recognized that and voted for him in greater numbers than ever before.

 

[GDL]

I agree mostly. I guess the left has lied and manipulated the truth for so long now, gotten away with cheating, lying, hypocritical behavior for so long now. I think the Democrats have fully embraced the radical left now.

It tragically seems that embracing whatever gets one elected and keeps them in place is the name of the politics game. Term limits and a check on benefits is likely a good call that should have been implemented some time ago.

On the one hand, if it's adherence to & support of good, then good. On the other hand, if adherence to & support of bad, then bad. If bad outweighs the good then bad, and vice-versa.

The system was designed to provide some protections from tyrannies, but it was also passed on with the guidance of a need for virtues and protecting it. IOW, its success was not a given and some of those who passed it on knew this. Others could see it was doomed from the start.

With all of this, we have to discuss what is good and what is bad - what is virtuous and what is not. And there we ultimately in the big numbers will not find much agreement anymore in the US and we will see where the divide is rooted. Some of our issues are deep and not to be resolved. This "some" is growing in number and, as another poster alluded, can reach a limit that will no longer be accepted. Are we seeing those limits approaching? Or is this another business as usual emotional transition from one party to [supposedly] the other?