Convert me :)

[zg14]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you took the time to read this!

I was a Catholic; now I'm an atheist. The transition was slow, and it began when certain parts of Christianity began to shake my faith. For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion? Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists? And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

Anyway, these questions troubled me so much that I went on to pursue the truth. My faith disappeared pretty quickly after I began to do some research online. At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one. In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious. Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.
SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?
I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hi there; good to see you; God bless His Word to you.

Hebrews 11.6 says: 'He that comes to God, must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him'. So you will see my logic when I politely decline to argue with you.

(If you're interested in the broader context of what this verse is saying, do read the whole chapter. Thanks.)

 

[zg14]

.

 

[Hieronymus]

I am diligently seeking him, right now, via online forum.

Then you're not an atheist.

 

[zg14]

Hi there; good to see you; God bless His Word to you.

Hebrews 11.6 says: 'He that comes to God, must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him'. So you will see my logic when I politely decline to argue with you.

(If you're interested in the broader context of what this verse is saying, do read the whole chapter. Thanks.)

I am diligently seeking him, right now, via online forum. Thanks for your response (or lack thereof?).

 

[HeartThaw]

If your honestly looking for a few responses, ... I have some but if you're looking to argue like faroukfarouk said, I won't be the one either..

I was born a catholic, as I grew I've become comfortable with a non-denom/baptist outlook. ONLY thing I like about catholics now is " walking the stations ", I think everyone should do that, gives us more of an idea of what He went through, off subject, ..let's begin

First, there's more places then heaven and hell, (like) Paul stated " a third heaven " there's places like Sheol and Haidien, there's more places in different deminsions and some see spirits right here on earth. So to think we know where anyones going.. and when we don't. We don't know anyone's lives but our own, though I do think the one that does get to hear of Jesus and decided to deny will be treated differently then the one that doesn't get to hear of Jesus.

As the poster before me stated, seek Him, these understandings will come of the why this and why that, He will show you if you really, really want to know... But you have to be sincere and have a care about it, not " just to know " He knows our heart, He knows are intent and if we should know what we are seeking and if we are ready to know certain things. So seek Him, seek Him.

People believe in Christ allll over the world also, some people's heart has led them to deception, wanting to kill or blow themselves up for " a god " .. Or wanting it all to be about " them " and self, that everything is already inner, which we know where this lie comes from, and others from these countries aren't buying it either... The truth will speak to the heart, we know it when we hear it, Gods Word is that truth, Jesus Christ is that truth.

Hope this helps a little

 

[Hieronymus]

There is no life in hell, there is life in Christ.

 

[zg14]

Then you're not an atheist.

I don't believe there is a god - that makes me an atheist. I am still, however, interested in hearing others' views in order to develop my own understanding of the world.

 

[zg14]

There is no life in hell, there is life in Christ.

According to Muslims there is life in Allah. Who, then, is right?
I am looking for reason-based arguments only please.

 

[HeartThaw]

According to Muslims there is life in Allah. Who, then, is right?
I am looking for reason-based arguments only please.

Look at who they follow behind (muhammad) then look at who we follow after Christ Jesus. The lives of them is no comparison. muhammad marrying a 7 or 9 year old, Jesus was a virgin. The slaying that muhammad did and he calls for, look how they treat women, Jesus healed the sick gave to the poor, was a servant to men yet was CHRIST, He fed the multitudes with few loafs of bread, He is King of Kings.. Just study the history of muslims and study the differences of who they follow (hate) and who we follow (love)

 

[zg14]

Look at who they follow behind (muhammad) then look at who we follow after Christ Jesus. The lives of them is no comparison. muhammad marrying a 7 or 9 year old, Jesus was a virgin. The slaying that muhammad did and he calls for, look how they treat women, Jesus healed the sick gave to the poor, was a servant to men yet was CHRIST, He fed the multitudes with few loafs of bread, He is King of Kings.. Just study the history of muslims and study the differences of who they follow (hate) and who we follow (love)

And because you prefer Jesus to Muhammad, that makes Jesus' word truth? Just because something is more desirable to you, doesn't mean it is the truth. In fact, not all of Christianity is "love". Jesus certainly did great things, but let's not forget God (whether or not you believe they are the same, they are still parts of Christianity), who murdered entire populations and commanded people to kill in the old testament. Although Islam is currently the world's most violent religion, I would argue that it was once Christianity that was the most violent. But again, these points do not prove or disprove a religion's validity.

 

[Lulav]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you took the time to read this!

I was a Catholic; now I'm an atheist. The transition was slow, and it began when certain parts of Christianity began to shake my faith. For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion? Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists? And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

Anyway, these questions troubled me so much that I went on to pursue the truth. My faith disappeared pretty quickly after I began to do some research online. At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one. In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious. Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.
SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?
I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

Hi ZG14 and welcome to the forums!

We are happy to have you here and glad you sought out believers on this most important subject.

Thanks for giving us an introduction but to continue answering your questions I am going to move this to a forum for that,

It's called Exploring Christianity and there is no debating in there just asking questions and having them answered.

You pose many good questions and I hope you get many good answers.

 

[Lulav]

Please read the SOP for this forum before replying
Thank You! :​

 

[HeartThaw]

And because you prefer Jesus to Muhammad, that makes Jesus' word truth? Just because something is more desirable to you, doesn't mean it is the truth. In fact, not all of Christianity is "love". Jesus certainly did great things, but let's not forget God (whether or not you believe they are the same, they are still parts of Christianity), who murdered entire populations and commanded people to kill in the old testament. Although Islam is currently the world's most violent religion, I would argue that it was once Christianity that was the most violent. But again, these points do not prove or disprove a religion's validity.

Yes, with sin comes war and death... This isn't because of God so place blame correctly. We have to understand the time of which you speak in the Old Testament, and the context of what was going on. God does things righteously, this can be very complexed question. Think of it like this, there's people in USA and else where fighting Isis are they doing it for God? Well ..that would be decided by the individual, some are atheist, even satanist fighting, on the other side are " extreme " muslims.. Now, they all believe in their god, that's what they are fighting for a " jihad " .. Now we can discern the intent of these people by looking at what they " believe " .. Do you think God would wants us to blow ourselves up for Him? Do you think He wants us buying little girls for sex slaves? or harming and murdering innocent people terrorizing countries?

If you think so, like some have fell in to, well that's where their heart is. They will reap what they sow. There god is no god I want any part of, and their leader was just like them, I assume that's why they call them " extremist ".

Well, that's my answer.. And it's more then just opinion btw, these are facts. Please do a little research if you think it's just " my " opinion.

 

[Soyeong]

Hi everyone,

For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion?

Hello,

God judges people according to what they do with what they have been given. The Bible doesn't go into details about those who haven't been exposed to religion, but He is much more just, wise, and good than you are, so why be concerned with whether He will make the right decision? Should the God you serve check everything with your first to see if it is acceptable before He does something? If your God would never disagree with you, then you might be worshipping an idealized form of yourself.

Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists?

If God took all of the sources of suffering, lined them up from the least to the greatest, and created a new world where the greatest was no longer possible, then people would still ask the same question. This could continue until God created a world where the worst suffering imaginable was stubbing your toe, but why would God allow that if He could prevent it? Furthermore, if God created a world where all we could experience was joy or great joy, why would God allow us to have the lesser experience? So your question boils down to wondering why God didn't create us in some sort of stasis field where we could have no change in experience when He wants to be in a relationship with us and for us to do good. In order for us to do good there needs to be good available for us to do which God refrains from doing Himself, otherwise we would quite literally be good for nothing.

And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

It is silly to think that anyone who thinks homosexual sex is a sin and who is against gay "marriage" is afraid of gay people. We can love people without condoning their sin and the main reason why Christians give it more attention than other sins is because there are people who are trying to justify sin force us to accept it. If there were people saying that alcoholism is genetic, saying it is not a sin, trying to redefine marriage to include their favorite beer, going on alcoholic pride parades, saying Christians who disagree have alcoholaphobia, etc., then it would also get more attention. How could a loving God be against people enjoying beer?

Anyway, these questions troubled me so much that I went on to pursue the truth. My faith disappeared pretty quickly after I began to do some research online.

There is a lot of information online, but books written by scholars are still the best source for research.

At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one. In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious. Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

Christianity places just as much emphasis on how we live this life as it does on the world to come. You said you were on a search for truth, not a search for what is comfortable and appealing.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it, but wait, you're no longer a Christian, so people can change their views. Do people raised as atheists always stay atheists? What grounds do you have for asserting atheism is true? I believe Christianity is correct because of its veracity.

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.
SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?
I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

I find the claim that God exists to be far more reasonable than the claim that belief can shift without evidence or a compelling argument being offered because at least that is possible. Shouldn't you have considered the Christian side before you left Christianity?

 

[Hieronymus]

I don't believe there is a god - that makes me an atheist. I am still, however, interested in hearing others' views in order to develop my own understanding of the world.

Then you don't seek him diligently like you said, because you believe He does not exist.
So your question turns out to be: Why do people believe what's in the Bible?
In my case, i sought truth diligently and the evidence points to what the Bible says.
In my search more and more arrows pointed to the accuracy of the Bible.
The table of nations in Genesis 10 for example, turns out to be factual.
So i started believing based on reason, and from then on 'my heart' also started to change direction.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I don't believe there is a god - that makes me an atheist. I am still, however, interested in hearing others' views in order to develop my own understanding of the world.

If all you want is to know God in your head and not your heart, no one here can help you; just read the Bible and come to whatever conclusion you desire. If you want to know Him in your heart then sincerely seek Him; don't try to be deceitful because He knows your heart.
Psalm 51:15-17
15 Lord, open my lips, and my mouth will declare your praise.

16 Indeed, you do not delight in sacrifices, or I would give them, nor do you desire burnt offerings.

17 True sacrifice to God is a broken spirit. A broken and chastened heart, God, you will not despise.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I am diligently seeking him, right now, via online forum. Thanks for your response (or lack thereof?).

Are you also diligently seeking him in a place of worship? If not, your diligence is questionable.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Convert me

Blessed be Jesus Christ, Redeemer of the World.

Bless you, zg for considering Jesus Christ for your salvation. How kind of you!

Jesus Christ died and shed His Blood so that He can draw you to Himself.

No other people and their gods in other religions that I know of did that for you.

He offers you a Spiritually Rich Life filled with Virtue and All the Wealth of His Graces necessary for your Salvation.

As a god (you), you have to decide and choose whether you want to come to His Light to accept His Truth or you rather reject the Salvation that is offered to you which He paid for by His Blood.

It's as simple as that.

Praise be to the Holy Spirit, Light of Eternity. Amen.

 

[KWCrazy]

Hi everyone,

Hi, zg14.
Before I begin, I just want to say that your posts and the analogies you've made so far resemble a long list of posers who come here from atheist websites with a list of talking points to attack Christians. If that is the case, please go away now.
If you are sincere, we can continue.

I was a Catholic; now I'm an atheist.

My first wife was a Catholic. It's a great religion, though sometimes it dwells more on the rituals than the faith itself. While protestant services nearly always end with an altar call, Catholicism tends to deal with individual discussions of salvation in the confessional. The religion does not encourage independent reading of the Scriptures and it is a fact that Catholics read their Bibles less than any other religious group. That said, they believe in the death and resurrection of Christ and are among the most devout people on the planet. However, it IS possible to go through the motions and be a good Catholic without being a good Christian. Like any religion, you can profess anything but only you know what's in your heart.

For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion?

The answer is in Romans 2:
9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
Those who have never heard of religion are judged by their hearts. All men have a knowledge of right and wrong and a conscience that convicts them of their sin. This was handed down from Adam's original sin.

Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists?

Man separated himself from God through sin. As darkness is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of Godliness. The further man moves from God, the more evil and darkness envelops him. The wages of sin are death. All will die; some very young. That's because sin tainted an originally perfect world and death was brought into it.

And what's the deal with the homophobia?

Who's afraid of homosexuals?

I have been told god loves all his creations

He does, but he doesn't like sin and rebellion. By the way. If you want to be taken seriously, members of the deity and all proper nouns are capitalized. Failing to do so makes your writing look sophomoric and it detracts from your intended message.

Anyway, these questions troubled me so much that I went on to pursue the truth.

What truth?

My faith disappeared pretty quickly after I began to do some research online.

God doesn't have a website. He still answers knee mail. If you want the truth, take your questions to the Lord; not the internet.

At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one.

Taking lessons from the godless will do that for you.

In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious.

It also removes any consequence. So I could be an evil person and enrich myself while working others to death, and there is absolutely no consequence to that. The lack of an afterlife is the dream of those who embrace evil; that they can live a wicked life and not face judgment for it.

Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

You certainly have a skewed version of God.
What part of the Ten Commands does NOT make you a better person and a better citizen?

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it.

No, Christians are people who have accepted Christ as their personal savior and who have given their lives to Him. Certainly we falter and sin as is our nature, but we strive to good works and follow in the teachings of Christ. Demographics has nothing to do with it.

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice.

I completely disagree. Belief is a choice because first it requires opening your mind to the possibility that God is real and then accepting Him into your life. You can't say, "Today I'm going to believe," but you can open up to look at the message and the messenger.

My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind.

That's a cop-out. What you put into your mind determines the decisions you will make.

My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.

Incorrect. They would only change if you LISTENED TO a compelling argument. You've heard the story of Christ dying for your sins a thousand times and yet you reject it. Why? Because you feel no connection to the people the Bible talks about, or is it because you see yourself as a good person not in need of any savior?

SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?

It depends on whether you are willing to listen to the arguments or whether you think you can come here and change our minds. Have you ever had a relative die around you who was saved through Christ? There is a tremendous peace that only comes from knowing that the Lord is with you at that time. The saved have nothing to fear. Their greatest loss is not being able to spend more time with the family they love; now what will happen to them after they die. That cannot be manufactured. Only Christ can bring you peace in a troubled, evil world.