Conversations with Staff in Married Forum

[A New Dawn]

nm

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

I guess I'm late coming to this thread - I should pay more attention. I don't have the patience to read the previous 15 pages, but just wanted to say that, so far as that thread was concerned, the OP did not ask about divorce, she asked for help in sustaining her marriage therefore, imo, comments would have been better directed in helping her to find counseling, or offering prayer. A couple of comments that I saw in the first two pages of that thread were appalling (and have since been removed, thank goodness) but they made a big joke out of who was the first to recommend divorce! I found that to be really poor taste and I felt for the OP who had bared her soul and was looking for other Christians to come alongside and help her.

That is actually where I am with this. Now when I think of it on that thread valleygal didn't even suggest divorce. The people that suggested divorce are the people that I don't want to have the ability to suggest divorce to others. I think that is unfair I could understand if she said she wanted a divorce but she did not. I can understand if her husband threatened to hit her or actually did hit her along with the verbal abuse but that was not the case. I don't want people to be able to suggest divorce to a woman that is clearly not in a good place mentally. Then laugh about it suggesting a divorce when the lady probably cried her eyes out. I mean I often get accused of being insensitive towards people that are verbally abused and I was more sensitive then the people that suggested divorce.

"LOL you beat me to suggesting that........ this lady that is probably crying typing this, on her knees everyday praying God fixes this, finds a christian forum to get support .........get's a divorce" Hahaha

I don't want that.

In hindsight, yes, the comments were in poor taste. But seriously, guys, we were in two different places at the time and really all there was to the comments was us being like "Oh hey look, you posted the same thing I did at the same time".

I was fortunate enough to not be married to my ex and was able to leave him. I didn't want to leave him, however - much like the OP of that thread doesn't want to leave her husband. A friend of mine pointed out the escalating pattern that had been going on for quite some time and rather bluntly told me that I didn't have to stick around for the next blow up. I am thankful EVERY day that that person said what they did (suggested doing what I did not want to do at the time).

I understand people disagree with suggesting divorce and if that is against the married forum's rules, that's fine and I won't post the suggestion here in this forum. I am normally not for divorce anyway. However, if I ever feel as strongly about suggesting divorce as I did about what I posted in that thread - I will simply contact the person via other modes of communication and say what I can't say here.

 

[Luther073082]

I agree that the comments where in poor taste and I apologize for that. I was merely pointing out that we had the same advice at roughly the same time, her post got there first.

But I would for the record like the courtesy of someone pointing that out to me either in the thread or through PM rather then re-hashing it here and not having the backbone to name me personally and making it look like I took her situation lightly. I did not, nor do I take divorce lightly. However given the situation it was clearly the best advice for the OP. The simple fact that he committed adultery and was also not interested in healing the marriage is reason enough. To throw verbal abuse on top of that makes it even more clear.

If you have a problem with what I say. . . say so right away not in some separate thread where you are trying to paint me as the bad guy in the whole situation.

 

[Hetta]

It wasn't intended to ream you guys out - I couldn't even remember who did it - that was just my opinion about that thread, and how it went down, and what I thought was wrong with it.

But who did what doesn't matter, my main comment is that support should be given to an OP in those kind of circumstances, and not just advising them to divorce as the first and only response.

Surely our God is bigger than that?? If He can create this world, can He not work wonders in a marriage?

It's news to me that the OP's husband said he would not work on the marriage. I don't remember seeing that at all.

 

[Hetta]

Some advice would be very helpful and greatly appreciated...my marriage has been in shambles for quite some now. I'm believing and trusting in God for a restoration but I'm doing in solo. My husband treats me like the enemy. He calls me ugly, a loser, no work ethic (but I'm the only one working), says he doesn't want me. Today we got into a really bad argument (I went in on him too). I felt very ashamed and convicted bc God says not to fight evil with evil or insult with insult. Well during the argument, he showed me a pic of another female's private part in his phone and said that other women have been pleasing him bc I can't. I'm devastated and don't know what to do. I've been faithfully devoted to restoring my marriage now I feel stupid that I wasted my time. I still feel like God is saying He's going to make us have a testimony and that we have work to do for His kingdom together but I just hope that's not just coming from my heart. I want my marriage but I'm tired and just want to give up! Any advice and prayers PLEASE!

He has not been born again!

The one thing that caught me eye is that this man is not a Christian. How can a non-Christian be expected to live up to Christian standards - particularly when not all Christians can live up to them either? If his wife is not willing to fight for her marriage, what will his opinion be of Christians after the divorce? I would wager that he would be less likely to ever become a Christian, because it would seem to him that Christians are just not like non-Christians after all. He has refused to see the pastor (in another of her posts). That is to be expected. Again, he is not a Christian. So, why not suggest non-Christian counseling? If this were my marriage (which I'm glad it's not, but anyway), I would not give up without a fight, that's for sure, and that's what the OP asked for - advice on how to do that.

 

[Avniel]

I agree that the comments where in poor taste and I apologize for that. I was merely pointing out that we had the same advice at roughly the same time, her post got there first.

But I would for the record like the courtesy of someone pointing that out to me either in the thread or through PM rather then re-hashing it here and not having the backbone to name me personally and making it look like I took her situation lightly. I did not, nor do I take divorce lightly. However given the situation it was clearly the best advice for the OP. The simple fact that he committed adultery and was also not interested in healing the marriage is reason enough. To throw verbal abuse on top of that makes it even more clear.

If you have a problem with what I say. . . say so right away not in some separate thread where you are trying to paint me as the bad guy in the whole situation.

I honestly didn't remember who said what. If links, hetta, mk, kol, xfreak or valleygal said something I would remember that they said it based on the amount of interaction I have had with them.

As far as you being the bad guy. You might not have meant it that way but truthfully that is how you came off. No matter what is clear or what is not this woman came into our forums to get support and encouragement on how to save her marriage. As you have admitted your comment was poor taste but to advise a woman that is holding on her marriage praying and asking God to fix it seems to be mean. IF she came and asked should she our shouldn't she get a divorce I would understand that.

This thread was brought up due to the fact you suggested divorce and people thought it was not right. People thought you should have a right to have suggested divorce that is why it was brought up.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

But I also notice that in I Peter 3, Peter did not tell wives whose husbands 'did not obey the word' to leave them. Name calling and other 'verbal abuse' is not obeying the word. I would venture to guess that in the majority of marriages, one person or another has said something to their spouse that could be considered 'verbally abusive.' Often these things are resolved through forgiveness and reconciliation.

Link, there are some key words and distinctions here. True, I Peter 3 mentions nothing of wives leaving their husbands. In context of this conversation it really does not fit anyway. True, name calling and verbal abuse is not obeying the word. But if we, as forum participants, strictly stick to Peter's teaching we are telling wives or husbands to stay without knowing circumstances. It can be argued by some that there are two sides to every story, and that's true. We don't have intimate knowledge of every situation that comes across a screen. So just as it may not be appropriate for me to suggest one solution and disregard others, so it is for another to offer another piece of advice they may deem as 'correct', while ignoring other valid solutions.

I need to reiterate that we all come from our own cultural 'bent' on these issues. I'm speaking of church culture here, not necessarily the culture that we live in. We are brought up and trained differently, some fundamentalist, some more moderate. But we all endeavor to stay true to the word of God in our advice and direction, believing that the information that we DO get is a realistic picture.

I also want to recognize the fact that many times these issues do get resolved through forgiveness and reconciliation. I never want to underestimate the power of God to accomplish this, but it is only through hard work, determination, and the assistance of the body of believers that this can happen and we need to be sure that this message is communicated. There is certainly no 'quick fix' solution, be it counseling, reconciliation, separation, and even divorce. Whatever the avenue, the grace of God still needs to be shown to those who are suffering, whether they are at the beginning of their journey of healing, or at the end trying to pick up the pieces of a broken situation. And in the end, it really is up to the individual person to decide what avenue they take, whether the advice of anonymous faces on a discussion forum had any influence on them or not.

 

[Luther073082]

It wasn't intended to ream you guys out - I couldn't even remember who did it - that was just my opinion about that thread, and how it went down, and what I thought was wrong with it.

But who did what doesn't matter, my main comment is that support should be given to an OP in those kind of circumstances, and not just advising them to divorce as the first and only response.

Surely our God is bigger than that?? If He can create this world, can He not work wonders in a marriage?

It's news to me that the OP's husband said he would not work on the marriage. I don't remember seeing that at all.

His pride in how he admitted to adultery spoke volumes.

It would be different if he was apologetic and did not like what he did. But he was proud, very proud of the fact that he cheated on his wife. No one who's proud of that sort of thing has any intention of working on the marriage, their only to try to make their spouse feel worse about themselves.

I'm not going to advise someone to do something that is the wrong thing for them. And AT BEST trying to work on that relationship is a waste of her time where she will waste several years at least with someone who doesn't mind verbally abusing her. Risking at this time putting her into depression and perhaps as far as becoming suicidal. There is also great risk of him becoming physically abusive.

Too many risks in my opinion to advise even working on it.

 

[Luther073082]

The one thing that caught me eye is that this man is not a Christian. How can a non-Christian be expected to live up to Christian standards - particularly when not all Christians can live up to them either? If his wife is not willing to fight for her marriage, what will his opinion be of Christians after the divorce? I would wager that he would be less likely to ever become a Christian, because it would seem to him that Christians are just not like non-Christians after all. He has refused to see the pastor (in another of her posts). That is to be expected. Again, he is not a Christian. So, why not suggest non-Christian counseling? If this were my marriage (which I'm glad it's not, but anyway), I would not give up without a fight, that's for sure, and that's what the OP asked for - advice on how to do that.

True he may not be a Christian, but this isn't even about him living up to Christian standards. The man's actions are wrong even by worldly standards.

It's not like the guy was just watching porn or something and didn't want to stop. If that was the case then it would be a problem of a non Christian expected to live up to Christian standards. In that case, yes perhaps him not being a Christian might have something to do with it, and I wouldn't advise divorce. But the guy isn't living up to worldly standards either, he's abusive, commits adultery, and is proud of both.

 

[Hetta]

His pride in how he admitted to adultery spoke volumes.

It would be different if he was apologetic and did not like what he did. But he was proud, very proud of the fact that he cheated on his wife. No one who's proud of that sort of thing has any intention of working on the marriage, their only to try to make their spouse feel worse about themselves.

I'm not going to advise someone to do something that is the wrong thing for them. And AT BEST trying to work on that relationship is a waste of her time where she will waste several years at least with someone who doesn't mind verbally abusing her. Risking at this time putting her into depression and perhaps as far as becoming suicidal. There is also great risk of him becoming physically abusive.

Too many risks in my opinion to advise even working on it.

The OP has never said that she felt threatened physically by him. I'm astonished that anyone can "assume" that physical abuse is on the cards any time soon.

I disagree that she should be advised to divorce. She didn't ask for that advice. She asked how to save her marriage. To you, it's a "waste of time" - and I find that astonishing that anyone would say that, knowing as we should that God is bigger than all of this.

 

[Luther073082]

The OP has never said that she felt threatened physically by him. I'm astonished that anyone can "assume" that physical abuse is on the cards any time soon.

I disagree that she should be advised to divorce. She didn't ask for that advice. She asked how to save her marriage. To you, it's a "waste of time" - and I find that astonishing that anyone would say that, knowing as we should that God is bigger than all of this.

At best it's a waste of time. No amount of pleading is going to make someone who doesn't care suddenly care.

And the fact that she doesn't feel threatened by him doesn't mean the abuse won't become physical. Sometimes it just takes time.

 

[motherprayer]

There are times when I see a thread that really gets my ire up. Right away I want to shout, either at the poster or at their spouse for the things they have done or said.

At those times, I find it is important to ask God what I should do. Should I post, wait and post when I've breathed for a minute or two, or simply move along to another thread? I've felt led to do all of these things at different times, not just here but in my favorite place, GT!

I think, sometimes we need to look at what a poster is saying and ask ourselves if we are able to respond according to what God would have us say, or if we simply desire to respond out of a reaction to something that triggered a memory, or simply the injustice we are seeing. Because, bottom line, even when we don't like it, we must follow the rules, not only here, but we also have a responsibility to follow CHRIST, and where He may have us go.

I KNOW how hard it is sometimes to refrain from outright flaming someone, or saying something that is against rules of this forum. Trust me. I'll never forget the conversation I had up in American Politics that ended up in a PM back-and-forth between me and another poster because we both realized that our passions were so high we might have said things that weren't okay on the public board.

But that is the good thing about PMs, and Reps. We always have the option to contact a poster privately and offer our thoughts, without fear of repurcussions, unless of course we flame the person via PM, which in that case they may report it.

The other thing that makes me think about all this is the fact that we really only have one side of a story, and a limited one at that. Someone could be coming here and saying one thing, painting their story in a certain light in order to gain supporters, and taking the very things we say in "support" of them and using it against a spouse who is actually the victim. Abusers are good at manipulating those around them to make them believe they are innocent.

Just a few thoughts I had, while reading through this thread

 

[Hetta]

At best it's a waste of time. No amount of pleading is going to make someone who doesn't care suddenly care.

And the fact that she doesn't feel threatened by him doesn't mean the abuse won't become physical. Sometimes it just takes time.

Wow.

I'm floored by this answer.

I never advised "pleading" btw.

It sounds like you have made your mind up that this marriage should be thrown in the nearest trash bin, because he might just start beating her any day now.

Again - she has never said she felt threatened and he has never beaten her.

Are we really to run people off their marriages in this way?

 

[ValleyGal]

At best it's a waste of time. No amount of pleading is going to make someone who doesn't care suddenly care.

And the fact that she doesn't feel threatened by him doesn't mean the abuse won't become physical. Sometimes it just takes time.

I think the point is that she wanted to save her marriage. Anyone who wants to save their marriage should not, imo, be advised to divorce...or "dump him" as one poster put it. Had the OP not stated she wanted to save her marriage, I might have suggested it too, but she expressed her investment in saving it. So out of respect for her goals, we should respond in ways that might help with that goal....imo.

 

[Hetta]

I think the point is that she wanted to save her marriage. Anyone who wants to save their marriage should not, imo, be advised to divorce...or "dump him" as one poster put it. Had the OP not stated she wanted to save her marriage, I might have suggested it too, but she expressed her investment in saving it. So out of respect for her goals, we should respond in ways that might help with that goal....imo.

Exactly!

 

[Luther073082]

I honestly didn't remember who said what. If links, hetta, mk, kol, xfreak or valleygal said something I would remember that they said it based on the amount of interaction I have had with them.

As far as you being the bad guy. You might not have meant it that way but truthfully that is how you came off. No matter what is clear or what is not this woman came into our forums to get support and encouragement on how to save her marriage. As you have admitted your comment was poor taste but to advise a woman that is holding on her marriage praying and asking God to fix it seems to be mean. IF she came and asked should she our shouldn't she get a divorce I would understand that.

This thread was brought up due to the fact you suggested divorce and people thought it was not right. People thought you should have a right to have suggested divorce that is why it was brought up.

Point was if you pointed that out earlier I could have edited my post out and apologized for it.

 

[Hetta]

Point was if you pointed that out earlier I could have edited my post out and apologized for it.

The point is that you are still saying it!

 

[Luther073082]

I think the point is that she wanted to save her marriage. Anyone who wants to save their marriage should not, imo, be advised to divorce...or "dump him" as one poster put it. Had the OP not stated she wanted to save her marriage, I might have suggested it too, but she expressed her investment in saving it. So out of respect for her goals, we should respond in ways that might help with that goal....imo.

Some advice would be very helpful and greatly appreciated...my marriage has been in shambles for quite some now. I'm believing and trusting in God for a restoration but I'm doing in solo. My husband treats me like the enemy. He calls me ugly, a loser, no work ethic (but I'm the only one working), says he doesn't want me. Today we got into a really bad argument (I went in on him too). I felt very ashamed and convicted bc God says not to fight evil with evil or insult with insult. Well during the argument, he showed me a pic of another female's private part in his phone and said that other women have been pleasing him bc I can't. I'm devastated and don't know what to do. I've been faithfully devoted to restoring my marriage now I feel stupid that I wasted my time. I still feel like God is saying He's going to make us have a testimony and that we have work to do for His kingdom together but I just hope that's not just coming from my heart. I want my marriage but I'm tired and just want to give up! Any advice and prayers PLEASE!

It sounds more like she is conflicted. Part of her wants to save the marriage but part of her just wants to give up on it all because he certainly isn't trying. Perhaps at times people need to hear that it's ok to give up on something like this when it isn't going to work.

 

[Luther073082]

The point is that you are still saying it!

I was speaking about the "beat me to it" comment, not my advise to divorce which I still think is in her best interests and for legitimate and biblical reason.

 

[ValleyGal]

Iirc, the poster had two threads, starting with the one where she wanted to restore her marriage, and followed by the one you quoted above. I think any time there is a shred of hope, we need to support that hope. For example, maybe she had not learned about appropriate boundaries, so if she learned them, it might work for her marriage (or she could have been beaten like I was when I set a boundary with my x). But I do not believe it is wise to leave a marriage unless both spouses have tried everything in their power or one has completely lost all interest. For marriage to work, both need to be fully invested. This OP appears to be on the cusp of realizing that as much hope as she had, would not mean much if he was not willing to do the work on saving the marriage as well. The point again, is that as long as she had hope, we need to support HER goals. Even if she is conflicted, it is more appropriate for us to err on the side of her goals - until she states her goals have now changed.