Controversial issue. Need genuine advice

[heal103]

I am really struggling and need prayer and some solid advice on how to talk to my college age daughter. She has been indoctrinated by her professors and the culture in general against Christianity. She has been led to believe that the Bible is an ancient book written by men thousands of years ago with barbaric practices and ideas.what has particularly led her away was watching a movie called Boy Erased which is a true story of a homosexual boy who's Christian parents rejected him, kicked him out and ultimately sent him to an abusive conversion therapy camp where he was forces to undergo psychological torture and when he couldn't become "ungay" he was told he was going to hell and was rejected by his church and told he was an abomination. This led him to severe depression. It's just horrible what this boy endured there are many stories just like that. Stories like this disgusts my daughter and she just can't understand why christians justify such cruelty. How do i respond to her genuine questions? I am heartbroken by her attitude toward Christianity now. She associates it with bigotry and ignorance. She feels these things should not be practice today and to treat a homosexual this way is disgusting. Based on 5000 year old writings. I'm at a loss for words other than God has reasons for things we dont always understand. That makes her angry, and makes her reject the Bible even more. She is becoming more and more convinced that the bible is simply an ancient book that has some good things in it but should not be taken so literally. Please please help. I really don't know what to say to her

 

[Tolworth John]

please help. I really don't know what to say to her

May I suggest that you acknowledge that people under the name of Christian do horrible things and that this is not limited to just Christians. Don't start arguing about politics, but ask her on what does she base her moral arguments that cause her to reject the bible.
You want two things.
To get her to realise that morality has to be based on a political decision or on the character of God. 2nd to talk about Jesus.

What are her grounds for ignoring him, for saying he didn't exist, dido rise from the dead etc.
If you are not familiar with these arguments start reading coldcasechristianity, reasonablefaith, wintery knight and answersingenesis.
Last point, go to your pastor and ask him why he has not been teaching the facts of Christianity and how would he advise you to answer her.

 

[Charlie24]

I am really struggling and need prayer and some solid advice on how to talk to my college age daughter. She has been indoctrinated by her professors and the culture in general against Christianity. She has been led to believe that the Bible is an ancient book written by men thousands of years ago with barbaric practices and ideas.what has particularly led her away was watching a movie called Boy Erased which is a true story of a homosexual boy who's Christian parents rejected him, kicked him out and ultimately sent him to an abusive conversion therapy camp where he was forces to undergo psychological torture and when he couldn't become "ungay" he was told he was going to hell and was rejected by his church and told he was an abomination. This led him to severe depression. It's just horrible what this boy endured there are many stories just like that. Stories like this disgusts my daughter and she just can't understand why christians justify such cruelty. How do i respond to her genuine questions? I am heartbroken by her attitude toward Christianity now. She associates it with bigotry and ignorance. She feels these things should not be practice today and to treat a homosexual this way is disgusting. Based on 5000 year old writings. I'm at a loss for words other than God has reasons for things we dont always understand. That makes her angry, and makes her reject the Bible even more. She is becoming more and more convinced that the bible is simply an ancient book that has some good things in it but should not be taken so literally. Please please help. I really don't know what to say to her

I've seen this same thing in our church. My pastor said the most important thing is that she sees Christ in you, your dependence on Him, your problems given to Him in prayer.

That will go further than anything you can say.

Don't get in arguments, don't even talk about it unless she brings it up.

When she gets into problems, she will remember what Mom does.

God has a way of working these things out, just do your part and let Him take care of it.

 

[Dan1988]

I am really struggling and need prayer and some solid advice on how to talk to my college age daughter. She has been indoctrinated by her professors and the culture in general against Christianity. She has been led to believe that the Bible is an ancient book written by men thousands of years ago with barbaric practices and ideas.what has particularly led her away was watching a movie called Boy Erased which is a true story of a homosexual boy who's Christian parents rejected him, kicked him out and ultimately sent him to an abusive conversion therapy camp where he was forces to undergo psychological torture and when he couldn't become "ungay" he was told he was going to hell and was rejected by his church and told he was an abomination. This led him to severe depression. It's just horrible what this boy endured there are many stories just like that. Stories like this disgusts my daughter and she just can't understand why christians justify such cruelty. How do i respond to her genuine questions? I am heartbroken by her attitude toward Christianity now. She associates it with bigotry and ignorance. She feels these things should not be practice today and to treat a homosexual this way is disgusting. Based on 5000 year old writings. I'm at a loss for words other than God has reasons for things we dont always understand. That makes her angry, and makes her reject the Bible even more. She is becoming more and more convinced that the bible is simply an ancient book that has some good things in it but should not be taken so literally. Please please help. I really don't know what to say to her

It sounds like her view of the Holy Bible has been shaped by God's enemies.
The Bible does say that the Word of God is foolishness to the natural man. An unconverted carnal person can't accept God's Word as the truth, because it's supernatural.
Most of the worlds brilliant scientists, reject God's word as foolishness.

Faith is a gift from God, He doesn't give it to the proud and arrogant. He gives it to the meek and humble.

Most families have some unbelievers, Christ came to separate His people from their unbelieving family members.

There's only two things you can do for your daughter, the first is to pray for her and the second is to pray that God would help you to bare the best testimony you can.

Children don't care about what you have to say, they just look at your life. Right now, this world has blinded your daughter to the truth but God can use their evil intentions to bless you and save you daughter at the same time.

All sin is bad, but God's word tells us that to commit sexual immorality is to sin against our own flesh. If a person identifies as a practicing homosexual, it just means that they have surrendered and given themselves over to be in bondage to that particular sinful lifestyle.

It's entirely different if a person is tempted to fornicate with the same sex, but flees from the situation and prays that God delivers them from that temptation. God will deliver them and save them from it.

sermonaudio.com should have many testimonials of ex homosexuals, who went on to marry and have families. Your might find a good sermon or testimony on the subject and challenge your daughter to hear it.

I will pray for you and your daughter, I can't imagine anything more heartbreaking than watching your own child heading towards a lost eternity.

 

[MyLifeForChrist]

Whatever flavor of Christianity which you adhere to? Ask her to consider those listening in the audience or online to these three individuals who were not 'deprogrammed' other than by the cold hard facts of life. Then ask her why she believes that all three ended up hat in hand back in the church as she hopefully soon will as well. Praying for you now.
Desire of the Everlasting Hills Movie (must see in my opinion; especially the guy who was of the 'celebrity' world in a big way back in the 70's)

 

[com7fy8]

First, I agree how it is wrong to abuse a child in order to try to change that child's sexual preference.

But if people claiming to be Christian have abused their children, this does not represent any and all Christians. Satan does have his counterfeits, in order to give real Christianity a bad name.

So, why would someone be so ready to welcome a reason to put down all Christians, because of what certain individuals have done?? If she was told there is counterfeit money going around her neighborhood, would she decide any and all money must be bad?

No, we would find out how to tell the difference, so we could benefit from the real thing.

 

[com7fy8]

Stories like this disgusts my daughter and she just can't understand why christians justify such cruelty.

And yet how much does she say about the cruel treatment which peers and family members use to pressure unwed pregnant women to kill their own unborn children, in order to keep their social acceptance and social lives that they want???? Why is there no obvious movement to make it illegal for peers and family members to discriminate against unwed pregnant women?

It appears how some number of people are picking and choosing whom they accuse of being cruel.

Now, by the way, I am satisfied the Bible says how to help any person who has wrong preferences.

First, see how sin is the problem. We all were born in sin; so we all were born wrong. Our main preference problem can be we prefer to seek pleasure more than to seek God and seek to be submissive to Him in His love. And sexual sensations can indeed be such a treasure pleasure. And it can be rather easy to get, needing no great intelligence, and it can be free, while it is intense and quite nice feeling. So, ones who love pleasure can feel like they are in love with whomever they are using to get it. But, really, they can be in love with the treasure pleasure . . . while we don't even really know the person. And heterosexuals can fool themselves like this, too.

So, the cure can be easy to see > trust in Jesus so we discover how we become in God's love. And God's love will erase the credibility of those dishonest feelings that would have us treasuring what is not like God's love.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am really struggling and need prayer and some solid advice on how to talk to my college age daughter. She has been indoctrinated by her professors and the culture in general against Christianity. She has been led to believe that the Bible is an ancient book written by men thousands of years ago with barbaric practices and ideas.what has particularly led her away was watching a movie called Boy Erased which is a true story of a homosexual boy who's Christian parents rejected him, kicked him out and ultimately sent him to an abusive conversion therapy camp where he was forces to undergo psychological torture and when he couldn't become "ungay" he was told he was going to hell and was rejected by his church and told he was an abomination. This led him to severe depression. It's just horrible what this boy endured there are many stories just like that. Stories like this disgusts my daughter and she just can't understand why christians justify such cruelty. How do i respond to her genuine questions? I am heartbroken by her attitude toward Christianity now. She associates it with bigotry and ignorance. She feels these things should not be practice today and to treat a homosexual this way is disgusting. Based on 5000 year old writings. I'm at a loss for words other than God has reasons for things we dont always understand. That makes her angry, and makes her reject the Bible even more. She is becoming more and more convinced that the bible is simply an ancient book that has some good things in it but should not be taken so literally. Please please help. I really don't know what to say to her

I, too, have a college age child (a son) who is struggling with the having of 'faith.'

In saying this, I try to remind him that there are a great many underlying social and epistemological issues that he, as yet, knows little about that come to bear upon his current understanding about Christianity.

As for your daughter, and being that she's 'college educated,' I'd suggest to her that the first thing she realize is the FACT that not all Christians see eye-to-eye on exactly what the nature and treatment of various social issues, like homosexuality, are.

Let me ask this, since she is a college student, is she still willing to read books that might challenge her to learn and expand her horizons of understanding? OR is she seemingly already codified and stuck in here thinking?

 

[PloverWing]

Stories like this disgusts my daughter and she just can't understand why christians justify such cruelty.

It is a hard and awful truth that Christians -- groups of Christians, not just individuals -- have done terrible things, both in the past and in the present. We have examples from the past like Reformation-era violence between Catholics and Protestants, and violence against alleged witches. We have examples from the present like what is portrayed in Boy Erased. There isn't any justification, except to say that human beings can get it wrong, really wrong, even when they're trying to do the right thing.

My children also are college-age, and are working through how Christianity fits with their understanding of the world. I had a similar journey when I was in college. I admit being pretty nervous, watching my children in this state of religious upheaval.

The best I know is to wait it out; and, while you're waiting, show by example the positive aspects of Christianity practiced well. As your daughter watches you and other Christians caring for neighbors and those in need, she may see that there is a positive side to Christianity.

I'll be thinking of you. Parenting young adults isn't easy.

 

[heal103]

It is a hard and awful truth that Christians -- groups of Christians, not just individuals -- have done terrible things, both in the past and in the present. We have examples from the past like Reformation-era violence between Catholics and Protestants, and violence against alleged witches. We have examples from the present like what is portrayed in Boy Erased. There isn't any justification, except to say that human beings can get it wrong, really wrong, even when they're trying to do the right thing.

My children also are college-age, and are working through how Christianity fits with their understanding of the world. I had a similar journey when I was in college. I admit being pretty nervous, watching my children in this state of religious upheaval.

The best I know is to wait it out; and, while you're waiting, show by example the positive aspects of Christianity practiced well. As your daughter watches you and other Christians caring for neighbors and those in need, she may see that there is a positive side to Christianity.

I'll be thinking of you. Parenting young adults isn't easy.

Thank you. Its nice to know you can relate. Very helpful. Thank you for praying

 

[heal103]

I, too, have a college age child (a son) who is struggling with the having of 'faith.'

In saying this, I try to remind him that there are a great many underlying social and epistemological issues that he, as yet, knows little about that come to bear upon his current understanding about Christianity.

As for your daughter, and being that she's 'college educated,' I'd suggest to her that the first thing she realize is the FACT that not all Christians see eye-to-eye on exactly what the nature and treatment of various social issues, like homosexuality, are.

Let me ask this, since she is a college student, is she still willing to read books that might challenge her to learn and expand her horizons of understanding? OR is she seemingly already codified and stuck in here thinking?

Thank you.its really hard when they reject all you worked so hard to instill in the. She used to love going to church. Now not at all. She is pretty convinced in her thinking. All the intellectuals at school and online tell her not to believe in Christianity. So so sad. What a different person

 

[crossnote]

I am really struggling and need prayer and some solid advice on how to talk to my college age daughter. She has been indoctrinated by her professors and the culture in general against Christianity. She has been led to believe that the Bible is an ancient book written by men thousands of years ago with barbaric practices and ideas.what has particularly led her away was watching a movie called Boy Erased which is a true story of a homosexual boy who's Christian parents rejected him, kicked him out and ultimately sent him to an abusive conversion therapy camp where he was forces to undergo psychological torture and when he couldn't become "ungay" he was told he was going to hell and was rejected by his church and told he was an abomination. This led him to severe depression. It's just horrible what this boy endured there are many stories just like that. Stories like this disgusts my daughter and she just can't understand why christians justify such cruelty. How do i respond to her genuine questions? I am heartbroken by her attitude toward Christianity now. She associates it with bigotry and ignorance. She feels these things should not be practice today and to treat a homosexual this way is disgusting. Based on 5000 year old writings. I'm at a loss for words other than God has reasons for things we dont always understand. That makes her angry, and makes her reject the Bible even more. She is becoming more and more convinced that the bible is simply an ancient book that has some good things in it but should not be taken so literally. Please please help. I really don't know what to say to her

Hint: The radical Left uses a technique of representing Christianity as a whole by a few radical exceptions. It's as bad as saying all blacks are thieves because two of them were caught holding up a convenience store last night. Your daughter needs to take a course in critical thinking if her liberal college offers one.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thank you.its really hard when they reject all you worked so hard to instill in the. She used to love going to church. Now not at all. She is pretty convinced in her thinking. All the intellectuals at school and online tell her not to believe in Christianity. So so sad. What a different person

Yeah, I understand. My son sometimes deflects what I offer him, but some of his resistance comes in the fact that he is so very busy with college at the present moment that he really doesn't have the time (or mental energy) to also engage deeper, more academic issues pertaining to the Christian Faith. If I suggested some more or less academically inclined books, do you think you're daughter would read them?

 

[heal103]

Yeah, I understand. My son sometimes deflects what I offer him, but some of his resistance comes in the fact that he is so very busy with college at the present moment that he really doesn't have the time (or mental energy) to also engage deeper, more academic issues pertaining to the Christian Faith. If I suggested some more or less academically inclined books, do you think you're daughter would read them?

Honestly I dont think so. She's so turned off to it right now that she associates anything Christian with judgemental bigots and outdated beliefs

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Honestly I dont think so. She's so turned off to it right now that she associates anything Christian with judgemental bigots and outdated beliefs

You need to tell her that there are Christians who are fully academic and, like myself, have been educated within the realm of Secular Universities who take another, but still Traditional, approach to the Christian Faith. She's unfairly discounting the whole of the faith based on the particular interpretations of a select niche of Christians. So, there is more for her to learn about Christianity on the whole, even if she feels at the moment she can't accept it. And I say this as one with a degree in both Secular Philosophy AND Secular Social Science and Education.

If you want, I'll be glad to chat for a brief time with her publicly, if she's up to that and if you'll permit. OR I have a book or two (actually I have hundreds of PhD level books) that I think she'll find interesting and not of the usual type she probably stereotypes about in her mind at the present.

2PhiloVoid

 

[heal103]

You need to tell her that there are Christians who are fully academic and, like myself, have been educated within the realm of Secular Universities who take another, but still Traditional, approach to the Christian Faith. She's unfairly discounting the whole of the faith based on the particular interpretations of a select niche of Christians. So, there is more for her to learn about Christianity on the whole, even if she feels at the moment she can't accept it. And I say this as one with a degree in both Secular Philosophy AND Secular Social Science and Education.

If you want, I'll be glad to chat for a brief time with her publicly, if she's up to that and if you'll permit. OR I have a book or two (actually I have hundreds of PhD level books) that I think she'll find interesting and not of the usual type she probably stereotypes about in her mind at the present.

2PhiloVoid

That's interesting. I think the main thing that caused her to stray was the biblical view of homosexuality. She could not accept it and can not comprehend Gods disgust and order to put them to death. And how the church teaches this and rejects them. I've wondered if there was any other way of interpreting these OT verses but the NT in Romans also says homosexuals will not enter heaven. I just don't know how to respond. There is a huge gay community at her college. She loves them and rejects what the Bible says about them

 

[hedrick]

That's interesting. I think the main thing that caused her to stray was the biblical view of homosexuality. She could not accept it and can not comprehend Gods disgust and order to put them to death. And how the church teaches this and rejects them. I've wondered if there was any other way of interpreting these OT verses but the NT in Romans also says homosexuals will not enter heaven. I just don't know how to respond. There is a huge gay community at her college. She loves them and rejects what the Bible says about them

Remember most Catholics and non-evangelicals don't think the Bible says what you think it does. (It's partly a matter of translations and partly of looking at the context of what is said.) But only in the Liberal forum here can this be discussed.

To me the only convincing response to Boy Erased is "we wouldn't do that, and most Christians wouldn't do that." The second part is true, at least in the US. Is the first? But the followup question would be, "OK, but would you still tell him he's damned." If the answer is yes, you've lost most young adults, but certainly not all. The biggest problem is if the gays she knows are more like Jesus than the Christians she knows. I can't answer that for you, but it's something to think about, and maybe talk with her about.

I'm not sure whether you're familiar with the Barna organization. They're a conservative Christian group that does polling. They're quoted quite often about the attitudes of people to various topics of interest to Christians. They published a book a few years ago titled "unchristian", yes, in lowercase. It's worth looking at. They surveyed young adults, and found that many young Christians consider the church's attitudes on a variety of topics un-Christian. It's worth reading to get a sense of where she's coming from. Also look at their recommendations. On this subject they agree that many young Christians think the (conservative) church is wrong on the gay issue. Their answer is to be more loving in how you express it, but that the church can't change. See if you think that answer is right.

 

[heal103]

Remember most Catholics and non-evangelicals don't think the Bible says what you think it does. (It's partly a matter of translations and partly of looking at the context of what is said.) But only in the Liberal forum here can this be discussed.

To me the only convincing response to Boy Erased is "we wouldn't do that, and most Christians wouldn't do that." The second part is true, at least in the US. Is the first? But the followup question would be, "OK, but would you still tell him he's damned." If the answer is yes, you've lost most young adults, but certainly not all. The biggest problem is if the gays she knows are more like Jesus than the Christians she knows. I can't answer that for you, but it's something to think about, and maybe talk with her about.

I'm not sure whether you're familiar with the Barna organization. They're a conservative Christian group that does polling. They're quoted quite often about the attitudes of people to various topics of interest to Christians. They published a book a few years ago titled "unchristian", yes, in lowercase. It's worth looking at. They surveyed young adults, and found that many young Christians consider the church's attitudes on a variety of topics un-Christian. It's worth reading to get a sense of where she's coming from. Also look at their recommendations. On this subject they agree that many young Christians think the (conservative) church is wrong on the gay issue. Their answer is to be more loving in how you express it, but that the church can't change. See if you think that answer is right.

Thank you I will look into the barna organization. So do you mean that catholics and non evangelicals accept homosexuality and do not interpret those verses as condemning homosexuality? I've a tried to find an explanation for those verses as saying something less condemning and rejecting but they seem pretty straightforward.i wish I had a better explanation for her. In my personal experience I do find gay people sincere and just regular people who are attracted to the same sex. Hard even for me to tell her it's an abomination because the Bible says it is. Could I be reading it wrong?

 

[Sketcher]

what has particularly led her away was watching a movie called Boy Erased which is a true story of a homosexual boy who's Christian parents rejected him, kicked him out and ultimately sent him to an abusive conversion therapy camp where he was forces to undergo psychological torture and when he couldn't become "ungay" he was told he was going to hell and was rejected by his church and told he was an abomination. This led him to severe depression. It's just horrible what this boy endured there are many stories just like that. Stories like this disgusts my daughter and she just can't understand why christians justify such cruelty. How do i respond to her genuine questions?

She's rejecting Christianity because of a camp that you had nothing to do with? If you didn't teach her to psychologically torture people, yet were Christian, why should she reject the faith you taught her over things that you never did nor taught her to do?

Also, does she not know about gay Christians who are not sent to camps like this, whose parents maintained good relationships with them when they came out of the closet? They do exist.

That's interesting. I think the main thing that caused her to stray was the biblical view of homosexuality. She could not accept it and can not comprehend Gods disgust and order to put them to death. And how the church teaches this and rejects them. I've wondered if there was any other way of interpreting these OT verses but the NT in Romans also says homosexuals will not enter heaven. I just don't know how to respond. There is a huge gay community at her college. She loves them and rejects what the Bible says about them

1) The Old Testament only called for executing the people who practiced gay sexual acts. Which isn't going to be every homosexual.
2) The New Testament does teach that unrepentant homosexuals will not go to Heaven - but it also teaches that repentant homosexuals will (1 Corinthians 6:9-11). Repenting does not mean going to a camp that uses abusive and pseudoscientific techniques. It means saying "no" to the temptations, and doing your best to change the old habits. It is no different from telling a heterosexual lecher to remain celibate or an angry person to keep their temper. Furthermore, our bodies are not for our own desires, but for the Lord (1 Corinthians 6:12-20). That's gays, that's straights, that's everyone in between.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That's interesting. I think the main thing that caused her to stray was the biblical view of homosexuality. She could not accept it and can not comprehend Gods disgust and order to put them to death. And how the church teaches this and rejects them. I've wondered if there was any other way of interpreting these OT verses but the NT in Romans also says homosexuals will not enter heaven. I just don't know how to respond. There is a huge gay community at her college. She loves them and rejects what the Bible says about them

Actually, there is a small continuum of Christian positions on the nature of, and the theological response to which, Christians are to address this whole issue. As for myself, I'm somewhat Conservative, and I'm in line with other Christians who assert that, at the least, homosexual activity, like other sexual activity outside of the bounds of a husband and wife, is not in line with God's Will. However, this isn't to say that just because this is the case, Christians are then to castigate homosexuals and abuse their authority in Christ and berate those persons who struggle with homosexual proclivities. And, that in sum, is a brief and very general summation of my position on this topic.

If you want to help your daughter reconsider the Christian faith, then you might offer her the book, Everything You Know about Evangelicals is Wrong, by Steve Wilkens and Don Thorsen. There are other substantial books I'd also offer to her to read that can, I think, more heavily contend with the underlying ideas which your daughter has imbibed from the Ultra-Liberal Left, but I'd start her with this one first.

I know you may not want to suggest this to her since you don't know me, but this is how I address these issues with my own son who is struggling to come to terms with the best understanding and interpretation we all can bring to our encounter with the biblical contents, not the least of which is the issue of homosexuality.

Thanks for giving me a few moments of your time, sister heal103.

Blessings,
2PhiloVoid