Controlling

[redblue22]

Okay. I'm asking because last time I spoke about this with someone on CF, I was told that anyone living in sin will not go to heaven. "Living in sin" was defined as constant breaking of biblical commands. If that's the truth about getting to heaven, then the commands appear to have crucial importance. On the other hand, if that's not the truth and one can go to heaven while living in sin, then the commands are of course not as crucial.

The law is important in showing us that we need to be saved by Jesus taking our hell for us. As for living the Christian life, the main law is to love God and one another. We live the Christian life by trusting in God Holy Spirit living inside us. So, both rescue and living are by dependence on God as free gifts.

 

[bhsmte]

That is not about male suffer more emotional abuse.

I already knew the research and statics behind make suffering abuse, as I've already said, I know males suffer abuse.

But women majority more, and are at a higher risk of suffering abuse but also rape. Stalking, harassment, sexual assault.


But you stated that male suffer more common emotional abuse, were is the evidence for this state ?

Here is another study, demonstrating how common abuse towards men by women is.

Also, abuse that men suffer, is typically under reported, because of the social ramifications of a man admitting they are being abused by a women.

I have seen and lived this first hand and have worked with mental health professionals and attorney's, who have communicated to me the prevalence of emotional abuse and to a lessor degree, physical abuse against men by women.

Quoted from the psyche article:

"It is true, however, than women tend to abuse men differently than men abuse women. Women generally favor emotional abuse tactics, making the abuse much more difficult to detect."

http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/04/09/invisible-victims-when-men-are-abused/

 

[SnowyMacie]

I agree. And I wasn't claiming that anybody who has divorced and remarried isn't saved. However, as Christians with the Holy Spirit in us, we should know what is considered sinful and care about what God really wants for us.


Maybe you missed my first few posts on this thread about this topic because I already explained these things. But for your convenience, I will re-post it.

Mark 10:2-12 - (no exceptions)
"And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery."

Luke 16:18 - (no exceptions)
"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery."

Matthew 5:31-32 - (no exceptions)
"It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."

Matthew 9:3-11 - (exception? not really)
"The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."

So here we see fornication as a possible exception. This word is clearly fornication and not adultery - even in the original Greek manuscripts. This means sex before marriage. So this can only be referring to the provision given to breaking marriage in the Old Testament that if a wife was presented as a virgin and found not to be one shortly after, the marriage was annulled.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 -
"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."

This also happened with Mary because Joseph thought Mary was pregnant from another man and was about to divorce her but the Angel came and explained that she was actually pregnant with Christ from the Spirit.

Now some will try to take the following out of context:

1 Corinthians 7:12-16 -
"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?"

But this is clearly talking about one getting saved while the other spouse is not saved. If the other spouse refuses to live with them anymore and leaves, then you may let them go. But you are to remain single and rely on extended family and the church for help.

So the only exception to remarriage had always been death in the OT and NT.

Romans 7:3 -
"So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

Now, of course, sinful humans HATE this teaching. So they will spend countless hours trying to twist the scriptures to create any sort of provision to try and justify their decision with God - just like the pharisees would do thousands of years ago. But I don't think changing the meaning of words and only using modern Bibles to fit your agenda is going to trick God.

Actually, modern Bibles use much more accurate Greek manuscripts than older ones, that's why everone in mainstream theology has moved on from the KJV and other outdated translations. Since you mentioned the original manuscripts, we don't have any of them.

Futhermore, you would have a good point if there was a Greek word that meant "premarital sex", but there isn't. The idea of premarital sex as we think of it would be completely unheard of by them. The Greek word, pornea, which since I don't have my Greek tanslation at work can't check to see if that's the word been translated as "unfaithfulness" in most translations is used in those passage, means "permiscuos sex".

You mention Joseph and Mary as an example that only fornication is a reason for divorce, however, they were not married at the time of Jesus' conception. It would have been breaking off an engagement.

 

[GraceDriven]

Haha... I'm blaming women for everything? Right... that's totally what I've been saying.

According to you guys I'm just a Bible thumping, woman-hating man, who endorses abuse and the degradation of women. The Bible tells me to move on when they will not listen and I have to get back to work now. So goodbye.

I didn't say that at all. I came to a conclusion from your posts that you believe that because women don't adhere to rules of a biblical wife they are the source of the breakdown in the traditional family. God did grant men the rights to divorce at one point but that was because "their" hearts were hard. Of course, that was in the old testament. And I believe you are missing some of the equation. Just some.....

 

[GraceDriven]

Since this is a singles forum, I assume that I am not discussing this topic with people currently married and contemplating divorce. That act is done by the time they get here.

That would be me. But anyone who knows me will tell you I am more talk than action doing. Even if I got a divorce I would not be able to remarry. Not sure I would want to anyway. Once I got past the big hump; however, I may be happier.

My mom is 72 years old now. My father passed away when she was 42 and she never remarried. Slim pickings.

This thread is about controlling and I am living with a spouse who is. He is not the jealous kind he is too full of himself to believe me, who is so beneath him, would do such a thing. I have seen the results of physical cheating on someone; anyway.

 

[Jack of Spades]

he didn't ask for repentance or a promise that this time he would be good...he simple loved his son and rejoiced that he had returned. I imagine that after a welcoming like that and the son probably did repent and tried to do right by his dad...but the love was offered unconditionally. THAT is what the Living God is about and what Christianity is supposed to be teaching.

I actually think that the message is told that way quite often for non-believers, but what undermines the credibility of it, is that if someone actually believes it and goes to "the fathers house", the message seems to change after it and then it's about piling up demands. I've seen some conversions and their aftermaths and I think the pattern is more or less the same every time.

But I shouldn't be nagging about this at you, I should find someone who's more guilty of it and do it with them. I appreciate your deep and realistic views about life in faith, I've enjoyed reading your posts on this thread.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Wait a minute, this thread just changed topic. It was about relationships and now it's about the great "what does the Bible mean when it asks women to submit?" Question?

 

[Jack of Spades]

Wait a minute, this thread just changed topic. It was about relationships and now it's about the great "what does the Bible mean when it asks women to submit?" Question?

Too late to save it, it's too far gone, better to just go with the flow cause it seems that the flow is bringing up some good topics

 

[blackribbon]

I actually think that the message is told that way quite often for non-believers, but what undermines the credibility of it, is that if someone actually believes it and goes to "the fathers house", the message seems to change after it and then it's about piling up demands. I've seen some conversions and their aftermaths and I think the pattern is more or less the same every time.

But I shouldn't be nagging about this at you, I should find someone who's more guilty of it and do it with them. I appreciate your deep and realistic views about life in faith, I've enjoyed reading your posts on this thread.

I have the same beef with a lot of churches. It doesn't change what the real message of the Bible is. It just proves that churches are full of imperfect people....same as everywhere else. God is real and real enough to me that I don't develop doubts even when people fail me.

 

[redblue22]

briste, which greek text were you using to confirm the kjv?

 

[Jack of Spades]

I have the same beef with a lot of churches. It doesn't change what the real message of the Bible is. It just proves that churches are full of imperfect people....same as everywhere else. God is real and real enough to me that I don't develop doubts even when people fail me.

We make a little bit different conclusions from what we see with people and the Bible. But from my point of view, your conclusions are as good as mine, so I have no reason to challenge them. I believe God can be found in the Bible and in Christian context, but aswell outside of it. During last years, forest has pretty much been my "church". It has it's downsides but on the bright side, I'm not bothered by the herds of imperfect people if I seek God there

As for God being real, I sometimes feel that excessive obsession for following religious rules to the letter could be something like a substitute for actually having an experiential connection with God.