Contraception

bbbbbbb · Jun 2, 2011

I keep reading references to the Christian Church by Patricius79 and always find it amusing. The Disicples of Christ are officially the Christian Church and there are other Campbellite Churches which have the same moniker. I am quite unaware that either group holds to any of the positions and history as given by P79. Instead, there is a much larger denomination known as the Catholic Church which does not refer to itself as the Christian Church and it is this denomination, as CaliforniaJosiah has rightly pointed out, holds these unique beliefs and practices.

AdamKane · Jun 3, 2011

YouTube - ‪Jennie Asks, 'Can Woman's Uterus Handle 19th Baby?'‬&rlm;

Enough said.

MamaZ · Jun 3, 2011

patricius79 said:
the Christian Church does not agree that it is the same thing to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] into a condom, e.g., and to abstian from sex during the fertile period

Well its like saying the green apple is not an apple because it is not red.

brightmorningstar · Jun 3, 2011

Well if one listens to the RC position, one can see their interpetation has credibilty.
I dont think so as such. What I would say is that sexual intercourse is designed by God for within a faithful man/woman marriage, but for reproduction. One cant deny (although many try) that is the purpose and function, I mean if it isnt then there would be no need for contra-ception.
So providing contraception is used by husband and wife, I see no problem.

sunlover1 · Jun 3, 2011

Originally Posted by sunlover1

Maybe maybe not.
Why not just leave yourself open to God's will...

New Living Translation (©2007)
Didn't the LORD make you one with your wife? In body and spirit you are his.

And what does he want? Godly children from your union. So guard your

heart; remain loyal to the wife of your youth.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And

what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your

spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.

patricius79 said:
I think those are very good verses relating to the evil of contraception

I don't think they show that it is intrinsically wrong to try to avoid pregnancy.

sometimes there are grave reasons to do so, as the Christian Church teaches

We're not talking about "grave reasons" were talking about using NFP
to have smaller family sizes.. My last three babes were born in the span of
less than 3 years.. my body was whacked out .. so weak I literally used
a walker for the last week or two with the last one.
I cried out to God, "no more please? But yet your will not mine be done"
And used NO sort of nfp or anything else.
My body is His EVEN if it hurts.

SIlly now that i look back lol, what a fool I was IMO!
but my point is this, your posts are making your entire
sect look silly,..
Where scripture speaks, it's ignored.
Where scripture is silent, it's added to.

Oh BTWAY!
3 babys in 3 years ,, pray to papa, and BAM, NO babies for years.

God really is faithful, ya really can trust Him without counting the days
and taking the temps.

patricius79 · Jun 3, 2011

MamaZ said:
Well its like saying the green apple is not an apple because it is not red.

I don't think so.

abstaining from sex to avoid pregnancy is essentially different from having sex without giving onself fully to the other in order to avoid pregnancy

husbands are supposed to love their wives as Christ loves the Church

CaliforniaJosiah · Jun 3, 2011

patricius79 said:
abstaining from sex to avoid pregnancy is...

... having sex contraceptively.

... using a birth control method taught by the RCC to avoid pregnancy, to "render procreation unlikely" - what your denomination labels as "evil."

I realize, you seem to think the means justifies the end - if the right MEANS is used, that justifies the end (even though your denomination calls that end "evil"), the moral equal of saying that using a suction machine in abortion makes abortion okay (even though your denomination calls that evil). The "double talk" is amazingly glaring and odd - every odd.

I don't know if this "double talk" and contradiction comes from the RC denomination itself (I didn't use to think so, but the official statements placed into this thread have caused me to rethink that - the problem may well be at the highest level) or whether it's just from Catholicism - but all one has to do is READ the Catholic posts in this thread. Just read them. My point is uber obvious....

.

patricius79 · Jun 3, 2011

bbbbbbb said:
I keep reading references to the Christian Church by Patricius79 and always find it amusing. The Disicples of Christ are officially the Christian Church and there are other Campbellite Churches which have the same moniker. I am quite unaware that either group holds to any of the positions and history as given by P79. Instead, there is a much larger denomination known as the Catholic Church which does not refer to itself as the Christian Church and it is this denomination, as CaliforniaJosiah has rightly pointed out, holds these unique beliefs and practices.

the Catholic Church is the only historic Christian, Trinitarian Church and source of the N.T. Canon

she has always condemned contraception strongly, as did the reformers and Protestantism until the recent decades during which the divorce rates have doubled.

CaliforniaJosiah · Jun 3, 2011

patricius79 said:
the Catholic Church is the only historic Christian, Trinitarian Church

Amazingly baseless and off topic.

source of the N.T. Canon

Shockingly baseless and off topic.

she has always condemned contraception strongly

It is the world's largest religious promoter and teacher of it. READ this thread, read even your own posts!

as did and Protestantism until the recent decades.

Moot.

You have REPEATEDLY refused to substantiate this statement, thus you have given up your ability to state it.

.

cobweb · Jun 3, 2011

patricius79 said:
the Catholic Church is the only historic Christian, Trinitarian Church and source of the N.T. Canon

Absolutely not true.

patricius79 · Jun 3, 2011

CaliforniaJosiah said:
Amazingly baseless and off topic.

Shockingly baseless and off topic.
.

indirectly Protestants today--even though they disagree so much with the reformers and their Protestant ancestors in regard to contraceptives--testify against contraception by testifying to the definitive authority of Catholic Tradition, which is the only historic source of the N.T. Canon.

so indirectly they testify against contraception, with the Christian Church

CaliforniaJosiah · Jun 3, 2011

patricius79 said:
indirectly Protestants today--even though they disagree so much with the reformers and their Protestant ancestors in regard to contraceptives--testify against contraception by testifying to the definitive authority of Catholic Tradition, which is the only historic source of the N.T. Canon.

so indirectly they testify against contraception, with the Christian Church

This makes ZERO sense to me...
And it all seems entirely baseless and completely off topic.

I think if you read your own posts (the ones actually about the topic here), my point is amazingly confirmed.

.

cobweb · Jun 3, 2011

patricius79 said:
the Catholic Church is the only historic Christian, Trinitarian Church and source of the N.T. Canon
.

I'll say it again.... this is not true.

sunlover1 · Jun 3, 2011

cobweb said:
I'll say it again.... this is not true.

patricius79 · Jun 3, 2011

CaliforniaJosiah said:
This makes ZERO sense to me...
And it all seems entirely baseless and completely off topic.
.

even if I couldn't see the moral difference between periodic abstinence and contracepted sex I would accept the teaching of the Catholic Church because I know this is the authority which Jesus Christ established

this is what St. Augustine would do, also

patricius79 · Jun 3, 2011

cobweb said:
I'll say it again.... this is not true.

we disagree somewhat.

I've always known that either the Eastern Orthodox or the Catholic Church must be the true Church, and thus authoritative on things like contraception

when one reads Trinitarian Church history, one finds abundant testimony to the EO/Catholic distinctives--even those considered most false, including as to the grave immorality of contraception, as one finds in st. John Chrysostom e.g.

sunlover1 · Jun 3, 2011

patricius79 said:
we disagree somewhat.

us too.

I've always known that either the Eastern Orthodox or the Catholic Church must be the true Church,

So how do you find out what "the true church" really is?

.

patricius79 · Jun 3, 2011

sunlover1 said:

there is no testimony to any of the Protestant traditions as to overall interpetation of the N.T. in the first millenium

I think that argues against the current Protestant position on contraception

patricius79 · Jun 3, 2011

sunlover1 said:
us too.

So how do you find out what "the true church" really is?

.

I meant that I've always known that the EO and the Catholics are the only candidates with any basis for a historical claim to being the Church Jesus founded to settlee issues like contraception

I know that the Catholic Church is the true Church for a number of reasons which I can't go into on this thread.

one reason is that the EO have changed their position on contraception, beginning in the 1960s.

sunlover1 · Jun 3, 2011

patricius79 said:
I meant that I've always known that the EO and the Catholics are the only candidates with any basis for a historical claim to being the Church Jesus founded to settlee issues like contraception

OH..
well in that case it has to be the other "one true church" because you've proved
that your sect has it wrong.
God's Word says NO denying your spouse for fertility reasons.
So it cant be the RCC.
Must be the EO.

Contraception

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