• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Continental Drift

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by TheBear, Oct 15, 2002.

  1. npetreley

    npetreley pumpkin sailor

    +2
    I guess I missed that. What cave formation timelines are you talking about?
     
  2. Smilin

    Smilin Spirit of the Wolf

    +242
    Atheist
    Married
    Scroll Back Nick
     
  3. npetreley

    npetreley pumpkin sailor

    +2
    Are you kidding? There are 242 posts in this thread. If you don't want to explain it, post a link or something explaining how cave formation contradicts a young earth so I can get an idea from an outside source of what you're talking about.
     
  4. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

    +1,764
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    Can anyone explain the timeline of huge stalactites and stalagmites? How would it be possible for this process to be accelerated?
     
  5. npetreley

    npetreley pumpkin sailor

    +2
    Stalactites? You mean like these that were found in the basement of the George Rogers Clark Memorial?

    http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/gero/hsr7a.htm

    I hear they're about 10 feet long now...
     
  6. npetreley

    npetreley pumpkin sailor

    +2
    Here are more...

    http://aig.gospelcom.net/home/area/magazines/docs/cen_v9n4_stalactites.asp

     
  7. Morat

    Morat Untitled One

    +2
    Atheist
      Goodness. I wonder who builds buildings out of the same sorts of limestone in caves? I wonder if they're exposed to the same enviroment. They're not? How weird!

      Gee, I wonder if anyone has ever addressed this? Why yes, they have.

       Even if we allow rapid stalctite growth, there's not enough time for cave formation. Unless Nick wants to claim the "Flood" did that, too.

     
     
  8. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

    +65
    Other Religion
    Since npetreley has Morat on "ignore", I'll repaste the link so he won't miss it ;)

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html#proof22

    Edit: npetreley, Morat wants you to know that building and caves aren't the same thing. Not even close.

    (Heh, I wonder how long until I get put on "ignore", too ;))
     
  9. Morat

    Morat Untitled One

    +2
    Atheist
      Don't forget to mention that a building isn't a cave, not even close.

     
     
  10. npetreley

    npetreley pumpkin sailor

    +2
    What does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

    Back to reality: The queston was if it was possible for a stalactite to form quickly. And the answer is clearly yes. We know these formed quickly because they weren't there when people built the basements. In contrast, we don't know what the previous conditions were that caused many cave stalactites to form, so we don't have any way to know how old they are. Just because we can measure how slowly they are continuing to form NOW doesn't tell you anything about what the conditions were when they were first formed.

    By the way, as ridiculous as the rest of it is, I love this part of the response from talkorigins...

    22. Since when is the age of the earth related to the age of a stalactite?

    That's what I say, but I wasn't the one who suggested that they were related, I was just providing the answer to a question by TheBear.
     
  11. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

    +65
    Other Religion
    From the talk.origins link (actually from "Cave Minerals and Speleothems", White, W. B. 1976, pg 304):

    "On the mortared brickwork of old forts and places of that sort, formations which look to the naked eye like stalactites and stalagmites sometimes form in less than one hundred years. However, those formations are composed of gypsum, which is a salt of calcium sulfate. Unlike calcium carbonate, gypsum is moderately soluble in water, which means that transport and recrystallization can take place much more rapidly"

    The talk.origins site also answers this:

    "Needless to say, this is not the kind of operation you can turn up the spigot on. A rapid flow of water would simply carry the minerals with it, not to mention diluting the carbonic acid which is produced in limited quantities. We're dealing with a drip-by-drip scenario"

    So, it seems that cavern-based stalagmites do take quite some time.
     
  12. sulphur

    sulphur thylacine

    920
    +0
    Gypsum has an entirely different set of properties than calcium carbonate. take a piece of each and put them in boiling water for afew hours and see what happens
     
  13. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

    +1,764
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    Thanks for the links, Nick and Moart. I was not sure about the growth rate of these things. I thought that all stalactice and stalagmite formation was slow. Now, I see that not all formations grow slowly, but some may grow more rapidly.
     
  14. npetreley

    npetreley pumpkin sailor

    +2
    Gypsum forms flowers and needles, not stalactites.

    More important, Carlsbad Caverns is not a basement. From the previous link:

    Calcite is calcium carbonate, not gypsum.

    Here's a description of how caves are supposedly formed. Note that it assumes rain water, and therefore speculates based on that premise.

    http://www.guanopage.com/info/cavegeo.html

     
  15. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

    +1,764
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    Quick question. Does rapid formation account for all stalactite and stalagmite structures?
     
  16. npetreley

    npetreley pumpkin sailor

    +2
    How could you know if you weren't there to see the conditions that were present when they were formed? You can't. You have to speculate. Just make sure when you speculate that you understand that they can form quickly, and that the rate of formation TODAY may not be the same as the rate of formation YESTERDAY (or 1,000 or 4,000 years ago.)
     
  17. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

    +1,764
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    I'm not following. Are you saying that no formation is over 4000 years old?
     
  18. sulphur

    sulphur thylacine

    920
    +0
    Referring to nick's latest posting the growth of stalgmites etc I would like to see some positive proof of the chemical composition of these structures I have been in many karst areas and seen no evdence of these claims Also what type of structures are you you talking about. Straw stalictites or more massive structures?
     
  19. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

    +1,764
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    We are getting a little off topic here, aren't we?....hehe
     
  20. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

    +1,764
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    I will start another thread on caves and other terrestial structures.
     
Loading...