• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Constitution's "Natural Born" riddle solved! Read the shocking truth here!

Ton80

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2007
1,774
79
✟2,365.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Your boy Bama only ever stated he was a "native born" citizen.

You have mentioned this twice in the last hour or so. Apparently it is of significance to you, although I am not sure why. If you did find that Obama did say he was a "natural born" citizen, you would just call him a liar.

So what is the point?
 
Upvote 0

HerbieHeadley

North American Energy Independence Now!
Dec 23, 2007
9,746
1,184
✟15,282.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
You have mentioned this twice in the last hour or so. Apparently it is of significance to you, although I am not sure why. If you did find that Obama did say he was a "natural born" citizen, you would just call him a liar.

So what is the point?
Pay attention...
 
Upvote 0

CryptoLutheran

Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman
Sep 13, 2010
3,015
391
Pacific Northwest
✟27,709.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I've consulted the Bible on this issue. I would use the definition given to us by Jesus in the story of the good Samaritan.

A brother is someone who would go out of their way to help you even though they were not required to do so.

A brother of the American people would be someone who loves them.

Hint: The essence of the Parable is that asking "Who is my neighbor?" in the "Love thy neighbor" is seeking excuses. Everyone is your neighbor. Therefore, love everyone.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

pennmark

Newbie
Mar 5, 2011
704
6
✟23,402.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Because it's irrelevant -- Obama was born within the sovereign territory of the United States. Under the US Constitution, he is a citizen, no matter how much you may gnash your teeth at it.

Even under your own distorted and meaningless defintions, Obama is qualified.

Now go away.

The 14th Amendment gives you legal citizenship, not natural born citizenship.
 
Upvote 0

pennmark

Newbie
Mar 5, 2011
704
6
✟23,402.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
So...other then the couple of riddles we posted can anyone point out the riddle the OP promised to solve?:scratch:
tulc(or what the shocking truth was for that matter?) :sorry:

The riddle is the true meaning of the Natural Born clause.

Humans cannot define themselves what is natural, because human law is manmade. We can only find the definition of what is natural through divine inspiration, and that means either God has to tell us himself, or we have to deduct logically from what God has already told us.

As far as I know, the hand of God has not carved into stone the definition of a natural born citizen. That means we need to look to the Bible for inspiration.

Going by the two verses I cited in my letter, I was able to create this rough definition of a "natural born citizen": A brother of the American people who was born to an American Father, and taught by his Father to defend America. This definition may not make legal sense, but that doesn't matter, because the natural born clause is about what is natural, not about what is legal.

If we used this formula to select a President, we would elect someone who was truly natural to lead us.
 
Upvote 0

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,804
70
✟286,600.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The riddle is the true meaning of the Natural Born clause.
As far as I know, no one (with a couple of exceptions) thinks there's a riddle involved. :wave:

Humans cannot define themselves what is natural, because human law is manmade. We can only find the definition of what is natural through divine inspiration, and that means either God has to tell us himself, or we have to deduct logically from what God has already told us.
again, I can't see that anyone (with the same caveat as above) has any need for God (or you by divine inspiration) to define "natural born". :)


As far as I know, the hand of God has not carved into stone the definition of a natural born citizen. That means we need to look to the Bible for inspiration.
Well, no not really. Since the Bible has no legal bearing on our laws, I'd say you're wrong in believing that we'd have to consult it. :wave:

Going by the two verses I cited in my letter, I was able to create this rough definition of a "natural born citizen": A brother of the American people who was born to an American Father, and taught by his Father to defend America. This definition may not make legal sense, but that doesn't matter, because the natural born clause is about what is natural, not about what is legal.
Well if we were ruled by your opinion that might be something other people would/should listen to. :sorry:


If we used this formula to select a President, we would elect someone who was truly natural to lead us.
And I suspect he/she would believe exactly as you do. ;)
tulc(could use some coffee right now) :sigh:
 
Upvote 0

pennmark

Newbie
Mar 5, 2011
704
6
✟23,402.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Well, no not really. Since the Bible has no legal bearing on our laws, I'd say you're wrong in believing that we'd have to consult it. :wave:

The Bible is a book the Framers would have been reading. We would consult the Bible to gain insight into what they were thinking.
 
Upvote 0

Nathan Poe

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2002
32,198
1,693
51
United States
✟41,319.00
Faith
Agnostic
Politics
US-Democrat
The 14th Amendment gives you legal citizenship, not natural born citizenship.

And since the Constitution makes no distinction -- and it being the Supreme law of the land and all that -- that's all you need.
 
Upvote 0

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,804
70
✟286,600.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Explain to me how humans can define themselves what is natural.

They look around, they see someone's born in America, "bang" he's a citizen and if he's a citizen that was born in America he can be President. Seems pretty straight forward to me. :wave:
tulc(doesn't see a riddle or a problem) :)
 
Upvote 0

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,804
70
✟286,600.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
42,543
20,384
Finger Lakes
✟324,608.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
again, I can't see that anyone (with the same caveat as above) has any need for God (or you by divine inspiration) to define "natural born".

Explain to me how humans can define themselves what is natural.
This is one of the silliest arguments I've ever seen. If humans can mean something by a word, then they can say what they mean by it (define it).
 
Upvote 0

pennmark

Newbie
Mar 5, 2011
704
6
✟23,402.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
They look around, they see someone's born in America, "bang" he's a citizen and if he's a citizen that was born in America he can be President. Seems pretty straight forward to me. :wave:
tulc(doesn't see a riddle or a problem) :)

That could be a person's opinion.

If you locked 10 Americans into a room, and told them to define what is a natural born citizen, you're likely to end up with ten different answers. The reason for this is the same reason why we haven't gotten a concrete definition in 200 years, and why the Framers themselves could not agree on it: What is truly natural is elusive to human ken, and human law is manmade, not natural. We are not qualified to define ourselves what is natural.
 
Upvote 0

pennmark

Newbie
Mar 5, 2011
704
6
✟23,402.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
When Barack Obama Jr. was born, he was a reward from God to his Father. He was given his Father's name, because he belonged to his Father. Kenya had a moral obligation to recognize him as a citizen, because he was God's reward to one of their own native sons.

For all of these reasons, he was a natural born citizen of Kenya, not the USA, and is thus not constitutionally eligible to serve as our President.
 
Upvote 0

Incariol

Newbie
Apr 22, 2011
5,710
251
✟7,523.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
When Barack Obama Jr. was born, he was a reward from God to his Father. He was given his Father's name, because he belonged to his Father. Kenya had a moral obligation to recognize him as a citizen, because he was God's reward to one of their own native sons.

For all of these reasons, he was a natural born citizen of Kenya, not the USA, and is thus not constitutionally eligible to serve as our President.

You are welcome to come up with whatever opinions you like, but you do realize that this has nothing to do with legal reality, right?
 
Upvote 0

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,804
70
✟286,600.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That could be a person's opinion.
Ian't that what we've been talking about this whole time? Opinions?

If you locked 10 Americans into a room, and told them to define what is a natural born citizen, you're likely to end up with ten different answers. The reason for this is the same reason why we haven't gotten a concrete definition in 200 years, and why the Framers themselves could not agree on it: What is truly natural is elusive to human ken, and human law is manmade, not natural. We are not qualified to define ourselves what is natural.

In the dictionary it it says:
natural-born said:
[nach-er-uh
thinsp.png
l-bawrn, nach-ruh
thinsp.png
l-]
–adjective 1. native-born.

2. by virtue of one's nature, qualities, or innate talent: a natural-born musician.
it appears natural born is the same as native born. Wnat to know what native born means?
native born said:
ney-tiv-bawrn] –adjective born in the place or country indicated: a native-born Australian.
I suspect those same 10 Americans (that didn't have an agenda to push) would accept what the dictionary says. :wave:
tulc(which means, we seem to have defined, pretty easily actually, what you said we couldn't...) :sorry:
 
Upvote 0

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,804
70
✟286,600.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When Barack Obama Jr. was born, he was a reward from God to his Father. He was given his Father's name, because he belonged to his Father. Kenya had a moral obligation to recognize him as a citizen, because he was God's reward to one of their own native sons.
You do realize that, while apparently this is to your mind an irrefutable argument, it actually is just your opinion. And an opinion that doesn't appear to be based on anything more then your desire to claim the following:


For all of these reasons, he was a natural born citizen of Kenya, not the USA, and is thus not constitutionally eligible to serve as our President.
tulc(that and $5.50 will get you a cafe' americano with 5 extra shots of espresso) :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0