Constantine created Christianity

[Daniel Marsh]

The shocking anti-Semitism for one:

"It was, in the first place, ...
Theodoret's Ecclesiastical History records The Epistle of the Emperor Constantine, concerning the matters transacted at the Council, addressed to those Bishops who were not present:

Let us look at the chapter somewhat quoted,

"
Chapter 9. The Epistle of the Emperor Constantine, concerning the matters transacted at the Council, addressed to those Bishops who were not present
The great emperor also wrote an account of the transactions of the council to those bishops who were unable to attend. And I consider it worth while to insert this epistle in my work, as it clearly evidences the piety of the writer.

Constantinus Augustus to the Churches.

Viewing the common public prosperity enjoyed at this moment, as the result of the great power of divine grace, I am desirous above all things that the blessed members of the Catholic Church should be preserved in one faith, in sincere love, and in one form of religion, towards Almighty God. But, since no firmer or more effective measure could be adopted to secure this end, than that of submitting everything relating to our most holy religion to the examination of all, or most of all, the bishops, I convened as many of them as possible, and took my seat among them as one of yourselves; for I would not deny that truth which is the source of my greatest joy, namely, that I am your fellow-servant. Every point obtained its due investigation, until the doctrine pleasing to the all-seeing God, and conducive to unity, was made clear, so that no room should remain for division or controversy concerning the faith.

The commemoration of the most sacred paschal feast being then debated, it was unanimously decided, that it would be well that it should be everywhere celebrated upon the same day. What can be more fair, or more seemly, than that that festival by which we have received the hope of immortality should be carefully celebrated by all, on plain grounds, with the same order and exactitude? It was, in the first place, declared improper to follow the custom of the Jews in the celebration of this holy festival, because, their hands having been stained with crime, the minds of these wretched men are necessarily blinded. By rejecting their custom, we establish and hand down to succeeding ages one which is more reasonable, and which has been observed ever since the day of our Lord's sufferings. Let us, then, have nothing in common with the Jews, who are our adversaries. For we have received from our Saviour another way. A better and more lawful line of conduct is inculcated by our holy religion. Let us with one accord walk therein, my much-honoured brethren, studiously avoiding all contact with that evil way. They boast that without their instructions we should be unable to commemorate the festival properly. This is the highest pitch of absurdity. For how can they entertain right views on any point who, after having compassed the death of the Lord, being out of their minds, are guided not by sound reason, but by an unrestrained passion, wherever their innate madness carries them. Hence it follows that they have so far lost sight of truth, wandering as far as possible from the correct revisal, that they celebrate a second Passover in the same year. What motive can we have for following those who are thus confessedly unsound and in dire error? For we could never tolerate celebrating the Passover twice in one year. But even if all these facts did not exist, your own sagacity would prompt you to watch with diligence and with prayer, lest your pure minds should appear to share in the customs of a people so utterly depraved. It must also be borne in mind, that upon so important a point as the celebration of a feast of such sanctity, discord is wrong. One day has our Saviour set apart for a commemoration of our deliverance, namely, of His most holy Passion. One has He wished His Catholic Church to be, whereof the members, though dispersed throughout the most various parts of the world, are yet nourished by one spirit, that is, by the divine will. Let your pious sagacity reflect how evil and improper it is, that days devoted by some to fasting, should be spent by others in convivial feasting; and that after the paschal feast, some are rejoicing in festivals and relaxations, while others give themselves up to the appointed fasts. That this impropriety should be rectified, and that all these diversities of commemoration should be resolved into one form, is the will of divine Providence, as I am convinced you will all perceive. Therefore, this irregularity must be corrected, in order that we may no more have any thing in common with those parricides and the murderers of our Lord. An orderly and excellent form of commemoration is observed in all the churches of the western, of the southern, and of the northern parts of the world, and by some of the eastern; this form being universally commended, I engaged that you would be ready to adopt it likewise, and thus gladly accept the rule unanimously adopted in the city of Rome, throughout Italy, in all Africa, in Egypt, the Spains, the Gauls, the Britains, Libya, Greece, in the dioceses of Asia, and of Pontus, and in Cilicia, taking into your consideration not only that the churches of the places above-mentioned are greater in point of number, but also that it is most pious that all should unanimously agree in that course which accurate reasoning seems to demand, and which has no single point in common with the perjury of the Jews.

Briefly to summarize the whole of the preceding, the judgment of all is, that the holy Paschal feast should be held on one and the same day; for, in so holy a matter, it is not becoming that any difference of custom should exist, and it is better to follow the opinion which has not the least association with error and sin. This being the case, receive with gladness the heavenly gift and the plainly divine command; for all that is transacted in the holy councils of the bishops is to be referred to the Divine will. Therefore, when you have made known to all our beloved brethren the subject of this epistle, regard yourselves bound to accept what has gone before, and to arrange for the regular observance of this holy day, so that when, according to my long-cherished desire, I shall see you face to face, I may be able to celebrate with you this holy festival upon one and the same day; and may rejoice with you all in witnessing the cruelty of the devil destroyed by our efforts, through Divine grace, while our faith and peace and concord flourish throughout the world. May God preserve you, beloved brethren.

Chapter 10. The daily wants of the Church supplied by the Emperor, and an account of his other virtues"CHURCH FATHERS: Ecclesiastical History, Book I (Theodoret)
CHURCH FATHERS: Ecclesiastical History (Theodoret)

ME: Easter was already celebrated in the Churches well before this. There is no record that it was dictated to the Bishops what decisions to agree to. The results was by all that were there. Also, there is no proof in this that the Bishops were sent home early.

 

[Albion]

Turning his gospel into a state religion very much of this world then persecuting and killing those who would not accept this state religion is a perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ on the most basic level. All the brutality and evil of the Roman Empire being mixed with the gospel.

You seem to think that it was the church doing all that. It wasn't.

The statement by Constantine- read the vitriol and hatred for the Jews in it.

Pretty much just what I was explaining above.

 

[Not David]

Followers of Jesus Christ are called to a higher standard, to love their neighbours and their enemies, to bless and not curse. To pray for those who persecute them. We are to pray for, not persecute others.

I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven (Matthew 5:44)

Jesus said his Kingdom was not of this world (John 18:36).

Turning his gospel into a state religion very much of this world then persecuting and killing those who would not accept this state religion is a perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ on the most basic level. All the brutality and evil of the Roman Empire being mixed with the gospel.

The statement by Constantine- read the vitriol and hatred for the Jews in it. Compare this to the Lord Jesus Christ who forgave those who crucified him.

God Bless You

Politics and religion are always linked to each other. A nation with Christian laws is preferable

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Even if you misread it as anti-semitic, It does not prove your claims. You are engaging in the error of attacking a person, rather than dealing with what went on defining doctrine.

 

[Not David]

You seem to think that it was the church doing all that. It wasn't.


Pretty much just what I was explaining above.

You quoted me.

 

[Albion]

Politics and religion are always linked to each other.

No, they aren't, but to the extent that Constantine as Emperor patronized the Christian church, we here are still, after all this talk, without anything concrete that shows that "Constantine Created Christianity." That's the title of this thread!

 

[Not David]

No, they aren't, but to the extent that Constantine as Emperor patronized the Christian church, we here are still, after all this talk, without anything concrete that shows that "Constantine Created Christianity." That's the title of this thread!

Yes, they are. Even in the New Testament we see Christians being jailed because they were seen as political or social threat.

 

[Albion]

Yes, they are. Even in the New Testament we see Christians being jailed because they were seen as political or social threat.

You said "always."

Anyway, if Christians are persecuted by the authorities, it sure as anything does NOT mean that the Church has caved to the Government (as is the theme of much of this thread).

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"The bishops convened in council being desirous of refuting the impious assertions invented by the Arians, that the Son was created out of that which was non-existent , that He is a creature and created being , that there was a period in which He was not , and that He is mutable by nature, and being all agreed in propounding the following declarations, which are in accordance with the holy Scriptures; namely, that the Son is by nature only-begotten of God, Word, Power, and sole Wisdom of the Father; that He is, as John said, 'the true God ,' and, as Paul has written, 'the brightness of the glory, and the express image of the person of the Father ,' the followers of Eusebius, drawn aside by their own vile doctrine, then began to say one to another, Let us agree, for we are also of God; ' There is but one God, by whom are all things ; ' Old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new, and all things are of God.' They also dwelt particularly upon what is contained in 'The Shepherd :' 'Believe above all that there is one God, who created and fashioned all things, and making them to be out of that which is not.'

...

So these men concealed their unsoundness through fear of the majority, and gave their assent to the decisions of the council, thus drawing upon themselves the condemnation of the prophet, for the God of all cries unto them, This people honour Me with their lips, but in their hearts they are far from Me. Theonas and Secundus, however, did not like to take this course, and were excommunicated by common consent as men who esteemed the Arian blasphemy above evangelical doctrine. The bishops then returned to the council, and drew up twenty laws to regulate the discipline of the Church." CHURCH FATHERS: Ecclesiastical History, Book I (Theodoret)

ME: So, we have it only two people were excommunicated by common consent for false teaching of the Arian Doctrine that Jesus is NOT God by nature.

 

[Albion]

ME: So, we have it only two people were excommunicated by common consent for false teaching of the Arian Doctrine that Jesus is NOT God by nature.

Anyone: How does this show us that Constantine created Christianity?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

This. What's pagan about the Creed?

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, that is, of the substance [ek tes ousias] of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of the same substance with the Father [homoousion to patri], through whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and our salvation descended, was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and rose again the third day, ascended into heaven and cometh to judge the living and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost. Those who say: There was a time when He was not, and He was not before He was begotten; and that He was made out of nothing (ex ouk onton); or who maintain that He is of another hypostasis or another substance [than the Father], or that the Son of God is created, or mutable, or subject to change, [them] the Catholic Church anathematizes.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: First Council of Nicaea

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Followers of Jesus Christ are called to a higher standard, to love their neighbours and their enemies, to bless and not curse. To pray for those who persecute them. We are to pray for, not persecute others.

I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven (Matthew 5:44)

Jesus said his Kingdom was not of this world (John 18:36).

Turning his gospel into a state religion very much of this world then persecuting and killing those who would not accept this state religion is a perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ on the most basic level. All the brutality and evil of the Roman Empire being mixed with the gospel.

The statement by Constantine- read the vitriol and hatred for the Jews in it. Compare this to the Lord Jesus Christ who forgave those who crucified him.

God Bless You

Your rabbit hole does not prove your claims. It only shows that a person who may have been born again was immature in the faith. In the letter, he is not advocating violence or did I miss that?

 

[Not David]

You said "always."

Anyway, if Christians are persecuted by the authorities, it sure as anything does NOT mean that the Church has caved to the Government (as is the theme of much of this thread).

I didn't say that. Anyways this is getting off-topic.

 

[lismore]

Y It only shows that a person who may have been born again was immature in the faith.

The perfect person to be in leadership then- immature? What does the bible say about leadership?

In the letter, he is not advocating violence or did I miss that?

See the link about the death penalty. Does the death penalty involve violence?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Anyone: How does this show us that Constantine created Christianity?

My quotes from primary sources proves Constantine did Not create Christianity, nor influenced its doctrines. When people make historical claims, it is best to go to primary sources. I find the unhistorical claims of those claiming he did create Christianity are laughable. The Claim that He sent the Bishops home early to create doctrine himself is just plain silly. All we have is two Arians excommunicated from the Church for teaching false doctrine.

The whole anti-semitic theme is just a rabbit hole because they can not prove the odd claims they made. Wikipedia is the worse source one can go to for historical information.

Like You, I say prove your claims from primary sources only because anyone can write an opinion. Also, they should give a link to each of the primary sources they use, so context can be checked.

Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow is a good book on addressing their poor logic.

Thanks for asking, Daniel

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The perfect person to be in leadership then- immature? What does the bible say about leadership?



See the link about the death penalty. Does the death penalty involve violence?

You fully know that I am saying the texts I posted, does not advocate voient persecution against Jewish People. I will go back and look at your link if I can find it. Please repost the link.

I am curious, why are you going down another rabbit hole???

Romans 13 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Obey Your Government Rulers
13 All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. 2 So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves. 3 People who do right don’t have to fear the rulers. But those who do wrong must fear them. Do you want to be free from fearing them? Then do only what is right, and they will praise you.

4 Rulers are God’s servants to help you. But if you do wrong, you have reason to be afraid. They have the power to punish, and they will use it. They are God’s servants to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must obey the government, not just because you might be punished, but because you know it is the right thing to do.

6 And this is why you pay taxes too. Those rulers are working for God, and they give all their time to the work of ruling. 7 Give everyone what you owe them. If you owe them any kind of tax, then pay it. Show respect to those you should respect. And show honor to those you should honor.

 

[mmksparbud]

My quotes from primary sources proves Constantine did Not create Christianity, nor influenced its doctrines. When people make historical claims, it is best to go to primary sources. I find the unhistorical claims of those claiming he did create Christianity are laughable. The Claim that He sent the Bishops home early to create doctrine himself is just plain silly. All we have is two Arians excommunicated from the Church for teaching false doctrine.

The whole anti-semitic theme is just a rabbit hole because they can not prove the odd claims they made. Wikipedia is the worse source one can go to for historical information.

Like You, I say prove your claims from primary sources only because anyone can write an opinion. Also, they should give a link to each of the primary sources they use, so context can be checked.

Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow is a good book on addressing their poor logic.

Thanks for asking, Daniel

No, he did not create Christianity---he simply tried to regulate it with government controls.

Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321. It says this:

"On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.ii
Peter Paul Rubens
Source: Wikimedia Commons....


Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321. It says this:

On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.ii

Chamber’s Encyclopedia says this:

Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical observance of that Day is known to have been ordained, is the edict of Constantine, 321 A.D.iii

Following this initial legislation, both emperors and Popes in succeeding centuries added other laws to strengthen Sunday observance. What began as a pagan ordinance ended as a Christian regulation. Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD):

Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ.iv

Christianity was already encompassing the known world by Constantine---he, and later others, tried to control it with laws.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

No, they aren't, but to the extent that Constantine as Emperor patronized the Christian church, we here are still, after all this talk, without anything concrete that shows that "Constantine Created Christianity." That's the title of this thread!

Galerius and Constantine: Edicts of Toleration 311/313
Both in the case of the edict of toleration by Galerius and that by Constantine and Licinius, the original Latin text is to be found in Lactantius, and merely a Greek translation in Eusebius, (H. E., Bk. VIII, 17, and X, 5). Both Mason and Allard take this view. (For discussion of the authorship of the De more. Pers. and the genuineness of the Edict of Milan see appendix to Vol. 11 of Gibbon, ed. by Bury.. 1896.)

EDICT OF TOLERATION BY GALERIUS- 311 A. D.
(Ch. 34.) Among other arrangements which we are always accustomed to make for the prosperity and welfare of the republic, we had desired formerly to bring all things into harmony with the ancient laws and public order of the Romans, and to provide that even the Christians who had left the religion of their fathers should come back to reason ; since, indeed, the Christians themselves, for some reason, had followed such a caprice and had fallen into such a folly that they would not obey the institutes of antiquity, which perchance their own ancestors had first established; but at their own will and pleasure, they would thus make laws unto themselves which they should observe and would collect various peoples in diverse places in congregations. Finally when our law had been promulgated to the effect that they should conform to the institutes of antiquity, many were subdued by the fear of danger, many even suffered death. And yet since most of them persevered in their determination, and we saw that they neither paid the reverence and awe due to the gods nor worshipped the God of the Christians, in view of our most mild clemency and the constant habit by which we are accustomed to grant indulgence to all, we thought that we ought to grant our most prompt indulgence also to these, so that they may again be Christians and may hold their conventicles, provided they do nothing contrary to good order. But we shall tell the magistrates in another letter what they ought to do.
Wherefore, for this our indulgence, they ought to pray to their God for our safety, for that of the republic, and for their own, that the republic may continue uninjured on every side, and that they may be able to live securely in their homes.

(c.35)This edict is published at Nicomedia on the day before the Kalends of May, in our eighth consulship and the second of Maximinus.

from Lactantius, De Mort. Pers. ch. 34, 35. Opera, ed. O. F. Fritzsche, II, P. 273. (Bibl. Patt. Ecc. Lat. XI, Leipzig, 1844.)



The "Edict of Milan " (313 A. D.)
When I, Constantine Augustus, as well as I Licinius Augustus d fortunately met near Mediolanurn (Milan), and were considering everything that pertained to the public welfare and security, we thought -, among other things which we saw would be for the good of many, those regulations pertaining to the reverence of the Divinity ought certainly to be made first, so that we might grant to the Christians and others full authority to observe that religion which each preferred; whence any Divinity whatsoever in the seat of the heavens may be propitious and kindly disposed to us and all who are placed under our rule And thus by this wholesome counsel and most upright provision we thought to arrange that no one whatsoever should be denied the opportunity to give his heart to the observance of the Christian religion, of that religion which he should think best for himself, so that the Supreme Deity, to whose worship we freely yield our hearts) may show in all things His usual favor and benevolence. Therefore, your Worship should know that it has pleased us to remove all conditions whatsoever, which were in the rescripts formerly given to you officially, concerning the Christians and now any one of these who wishes to observe Christian religion may do so freely and openly, without molestation. We thought it fit to commend these things most fully to your care that you may know that we have given to those Christians free and unrestricted opportunity of religious worship. When you see that this has been granted to them by us, your Worship will know that we have also conceded to other religions the right of open and free observance of their worship for the sake of the peace of our times, that each one may have the free opportunity to worship as he pleases ; this regulation is made we that we may not seem to detract from any dignity or any religion.
Moreover, in the case of the Christians especially we esteemed it best to order that if it happems anyone heretofore has bought from our treasury from anyone whatsoever, those places where they were previously accustomed to assemble, concerning which a certain decree had been made and a letter sent to you officially, the same shall be restored to the Christians without payment or any claim of recompense and without any kind of fraud or deception, Those, moreover, who have obtained the same by gift, are likewise to return them at once to the Christians. Besides, both those who have purchased and those who have secured them by gift, are to appeal to the vicar if they seek any recompense from our bounty, that they may be cared for through our clemency,. All this property ought to be delivered at once to the community of the Christians through your intercession, and without delay. And since these Christians are known to have possessed not only those places in which they were accustomed to assemble, but also other property, namely the churches, belonging to them as a corporation and not as individuals, all these things which we have included under the above law, you will order to be restored, without any hesitation or controversy at all, to these Christians, that is to say to the corporations and their conventicles: providing, of course, that the above arrangements be followed so that those who return the same without payment, as we have said, may hope for an indemnity from our bounty. In all these circumstances you ought to tender your most efficacious intervention to the community of the Christians, that our command may be carried into effect as quickly as possible, whereby, moreover, through our clemency, public order may be secured. Let this be done so that, as we have said above, Divine favor towards us, which, under the most important circumstances we have already experienced, may, for all time, preserve and prosper our successes together with the good of the state. Moreover, in order that the statement of this decree of our good will may come to the notice of all, this rescript, published by your decree, shall be announced everywhere and brought to the knowledge of all, so that the decree of this, our benevolence, cannot be concealed. Internet History Sourcebooks Project

All the Edicts shows that Christianity and other religions were tolerated, not that it is established Christianity as the state religion.

 

[usexpat97]

I have never heard it claimed that Constantine created Christianity. Unless we are saying that Jesus merely restored a relationship, while Constantine created an organized religion. I never bought into that line of thought.

 

[prodromos]

In 324, he established Christianity as the state religion. Finally, all of Rome accepted Christianity as their state religion.

Utterly false. Christianity was made the State religion under Theodosius I on February 27, 380AD.