Consider this...

[vedickings]

Vedickings wrote:

So from a Baha'i view, why are people suffering and diying?

Reply:

In the Baha'i Faith we acknowledge that suffering and death occur...just as there is birth and happiness and joy in life there is also suffering and death... We do not blame God for this or say because you suffer you did something bad in a previous life.

To be truly human we must respond to those who suffer... We must lighten their burden and provide from what we have for them. The community (meaning all of us) also should provide for people who are less fortunate than we are and are homeless, disabled or ill and unable to protect themselves.

Death also is a release from this life and not seen by us as something that is a result of punishment, rather we are released like a captive bird and the cage of the body is of no further use to us..

So these are some of the Baha'i views.

- Art

Thanks for your reply

I like the Baha'i view

 

[urnotme]

Those are valid points. So tell me, being an Atheist, what would your response to that question be? But how would the Christian response leave the person "Happiest"? It's done nothing to improve her condition by providing an answer.

Why do you assume that's all a christian would do?

 

[xAtheistx]

Please feel free to discuss what an Atheist would say in such a situation .

Depending on what the situation was... I'd attempt to offer an appropriate response.

From an atheist view, in general, why do people suffer?
It's a necessity. If there is something good, there must be something less good, else it wouldn't be good--it'd be the standard. So the less good is then the suffering.

Because I would want to keep a dying 7 year old happy, I'd try to console her. Lie to her, say "it's all going to be alright". If she insisted on knowing *why* this was happening to her, I'd explain that it's so she can reflect on the good times she's had, and appreciate them more. Do I believe this is the reason the illness affected her? Of course not.

What does she WANT to hear? There is no good answer (from any religion, or lackthereof)--she's suffering because of an illness--diseases aren't earned ... of course there's a scientific reason: I know absolutely *nothing* about Leukemia... it's a specific type of cancer? I'm not qualified to scientifically explain why she's suffering. I wouldn't give her that answer even if I was. People suffer for various reasons. In the 7 year olds' case, it's whatever caused her Leukemia.
(What kind of answer is that though? What caused her suffering? Her Leukemia. What caused that? I don't know. Some scientists who study it probably do.) But it all bottoms down to an unfair, unjustified illness.

Life's a pain and then you die... it's just a bigger pain to certain people. Get over it. Somebody's always got it worse than you do. You've got to make the most of what you have--she really didn't have much, if she's dying that young, but...

Best response I can give.

Edit: Oh, and the Christian response would leave her happier than the Hindu response because it's assuring her that she's in God's hands. That it's all part of a master plan, that it's gonna work out. The Hindu response is saying it's her fault--not something that's going to make her happy.

 

[sonofgodjose]

I agree with the Baha'i view.

I also agree with the atheist view of logic and medicine.

I am not to sure that a Muslim would have no answer.

As a Christian, I say that everything does happen for the good. Including Karma.




I do feel that the Christian answer sounded the most uplifting out of the choices given.

 

[tocis]

Now you tell me which of these responses would help you find the most solace? And also, which would help you (and the society overall) to refrain from doing bad deeds?

The christian and hindu answers you propose seem to me like just a polite way to say "You suffer because you deserve it". If we follow that, it leads (umm... can lead) to a society where nothing is done to improve anyone's life, because it's all Divine will.

As for the muslim answer, somehow I share some people's doubt here - I can't really imagine that I'd hear that from a muslim. But anyway.

The atheist answer, assuming that your additional points hold true (a logical explanation is given), would definitely seem like the best one to me. Depending on what the exact nature of your misery is, that answer might actually help you to find the reason for your suffering and help yourself. Won't always work (like your parents got killed by a meteorite striking their car), but there's a chance.

 

[Abbadon]

Atheist : I have no answer. (if the person is scientific/logical, he/she would probably try to explain your situation in a scientific/logical way and would fail in most cases).

Muslim : I have no answer.

Christian : God works in mysterious ways, but everything is for the good.

Hindu : According to the Karma Theory, you did something bad in your past life, and that is why you are suffering now. I cannot give you any explanation beyond this, but you probably would be in a better condition if you hadn't done something bad.

Why do the Atheist and Muslim have no answer, and the Christian automatically uses a cliche that not all Christians hold to?

Why didn't any of them say, "sorry, I think it's terrible what happened, but **** happens"?

 

[HolySaracen]

But consider this... you see a 7 year old child suffering from Leukemia and she has only a couple of days to live.

Muslims believe that everything is fated.
True pious Muslim don't fear death but rather dying as a non-muslim.
Muslims believe all children are innocent and that they automatically go to heaven. In general only after the age of puberty is one judged for their actions.

I believe this knowledge would be a great comfort to a 7 year old child.

Also Muslims do not believe in original sin or re-incarnation so i think it will be comforting for the child to know that they aren't getting punished for something they didn't even do.

All in all i know which answer would comfort me the most.

 

[urnotme]

You have set up your OP to give you the answers you have already predetermined for yourself. Sorry, I think I will just play on through.

I noticed he ask us to leave our religious biases behind, I guess he can keep his.

 

[warghaha]

Karma

Let say you in your past life your freind lost a leg because of you. And this life its your karma to lose your leg. But by doing good, like giving to the poor, helping the sick etc. You will make up for some of the bad karma if not all of it. When your time comes, you may just break your leg

I'd seen you talking about "Hell is a threat". In my POV as a 'seeker', I can see Karma had some kind of threat too. This just like Hell which instill fear in one heart so that they'll behave themself.

For the OP, I would like to hear the answer would be "it's a test. Maybe it's a harsh test but you're not alone <followed by some elaboration about it> ".

If Hindu came to me and said, "it was a Karma from your previous life then you should behave so that you'll be better in the next life", this can't help me. Because, I'll feel, the first thing in Hindu's mind when they see me as a cripple people, that's because I'm a very mean person previously. My self-esteem will be low then and I think I should deserve a worse Karma.

If I'd brutally killed people previously, I should be killed brutally. And what about the person who brutally kill me? What will happen to them? I don't want people will receive a bad Karma because of me.

And I'll be struggle with a question in my mind, "why the very bad person will be turned into rocks, but the not so very bad person will be turned as human with cripple all over? I prefer to be a rock than to be a cripple."

(I think, along with the answer, the people who answered the question should help him. If we let him suffer his Karma alone because he deserved that, then where's our humanity sense?)

 

[xAtheistx]

I'd seen you talking about "Hell is a threat". In my POV as a 'seeker', I can see Karma had some kind of threat too. This just like Hell which instill fear in one heart so that they'll behave themself.

So is the law, for that matter...

 

[muslim_convert]

Muslim : I have no answer.

To the sick person we would advise that they should remain patient, remind them of their Creator and remind them that their illness is an opportunity for sins to be forgiven. We would visit them briefly, unless they requested us to stay longer and quote from the Qur'aan and hadith such as the following

Abu Sa’id al-Khudri and Abu Hurayra said: “The Prophet, peace be upon him, said


‘A Muslim does not meet with fatigue or tiredness or concern or sorrow or injury or grief, not so much as a thorn-prick but that Allah expiates his errors for him.’ (Bukhari)

Abu Hurayra said: “The Prophet said,

‘Affliction will continue to trouble the believers, men and women in their bodies, their families, and their property (it acts as an expiation for them) until they meet Allah, the Mighty and Exalted, while there is no sin remaining on them’ (Bukhari)

Abdullah b. Amr said: “The Prophet said:

‘No one is ill but that Allah will credit him with the reward the same as he was doing while healthy’ (Bukhari)

Jabir said:

The Prophet said, “There is no Muslim, man or women, who becomes ill but that Allah removes some sins by it” (Bukhari)

The Prophet said:

“Wondrous are the believer’s affairs. For him there is good in all his affairs, and this is so only for the believer. When something pleasing happens to him, he is grateful, and that is good for him; and when something displeasing happens to him, he is patient, and that is good for him” (Muslim).

 

[sidhe]

In all honesty, not a one would particularly console me, but I think your version is a bit skewed.

 

[muslim_convert]

In all honesty, not a one would particularly console me, but I think your version is a bit skewed.

Perhaps that is because you don't believe our sins can be forgiven in any other way than by believing Jesus has died for the sins of mankind.

These hadith are meant for Muslims. As the last one says:

“Wondrous are the believer’s affairs. For him there is good in all his affairs, and this is so only for the believer. When something pleasing happens to him, he is grateful, and that is good for him; and when something displeasing happens to him, he is patient, and that is good for him”


salaams

 

[sidhe]

Perhaps that is because you don't believe our sins can be forgiven in any other way than by believing Jesus has died for the sins of mankind.

These hadith are for Muslims. As the last one says:
“Wondrous are the believer’s affairs. For him there is good in all his affairs, and this is so only for the believer. When something pleasing happens to him, he is grateful, and that is good for him; and when something displeasing happens to him, he is patient, and that is good for him”


salaams

Actually, if you'd check the faith icon I'm sporting...

It's not that I believe in the salvific sacrifice of Jesus, it's that I don't believe there was anything to be saved from to begin with.

 

[Saraswati-Devi]

I know we're suppose to be playing a game, but my little brother is deaf and we had to deal with this issue in real life. It was very hard to come up with the best answer to explain to him he's JUST like the rest of us, even better...

Well, the only answer we came up with is "God has blessed us with you... you've taught us how to love unconditionally, we must respect differences. You've taught us that love comes in any form.. you've opened our eyes and heart, Thank You for being part of our family."

 

[xAtheistx]

I would hate having a disabled sibling.

I don't pretend to be kind. I don't treat the disabled equally--because they're not. That's why they've got the label "disabled."

I would hate to have to pretend they were equal, a duty I would feel warranted by being their sibling.

I have a friend who is disabled however, and I show them nothing but pity. It's almost annoying now, because everytime I see them I feel nothing else.

 

[ebia]

I would hate to have to pretend they were equal, a duty I would feel warranted by being their sibling.

Have you considered that they might be better than you?

Being disabled in one thing doesn't imply being less able in everything.

For a start, they might well be more compasionate than you.

 

[muslim_convert]

I know we're suppose to be playing a game, but my little brother is deaf and we had to deal with this issue in real life. It was very hard to come up with the best answer to explain to him he's JUST like the rest of us, even better...

Well, the only answer we came up with is "God has blessed us with you... you've taught us how to love unconditionally, we must respect differences. You've taught us that love comes in any form.. you've opened our eyes and heart, Thank You for being part of our family."

Very nice...and true.

Strength resides in the heart and in the faith one places in God.

God will not be judging us in terms of things we cannot do, so someone who is physically disabled is at no disadvantage in the eyes of God.

Your brother's condition is both a test for you as well as him.

Being able and healthy is just as much a test as being disabled and sick. We should be asking ourselves whether we are truly grateful for our health and whether we are using it in a manner that is pleasing to God.

There is no disability in the eyes of God except in people's inability to worship their Creator.

salaams

 

[muslim_convert]

Actually, if you'd check the faith icon I'm sporting...

It's not that I believe in the salvific sacrifice of Jesus, it's that I don't believe there was anything to be saved from to begin with.

OK, gotcha. In any case, the traditions are for those who believe in the Hereafter and that their fate resides in how they respond to different circumstances

salaams

 

[muslim_convert]

I would hate having a disabled sibling.

I don't pretend to be kind. I don't treat the disabled equally--because they're not. That's why they've got the label "disabled."

I would hate to have to pretend they were equal, a duty I would feel warranted by being their sibling.

I have a friend who is disabled however, and I show them nothing but pity. It's almost annoying now, because everytime I see them I feel nothing else.

His brother will be judged by the strength of his faith not the strength of his body.

In the time of the Prophet people actually chose to remain with their disability for the opportunity of earning a higher place in the Hereafter:

Narrated 'Ata bin Abi Rabah: Ibn 'Abbas said to me, 'Shall I show you a woman of the people of Paradise?' I said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This black woman came to the Prophet and said, 'I get attacks of epilepsy and my body becomes uncovered; please invoke Allaah for me.' The Prophet said (to her), 'If you wish, be patient and you will have (enter) Paradise; and if you wish, I will invoke Allaah to cure you.' She said, 'I will remain patient,' and added, 'but I become uncovered, so please invoke Allaah for me that I may not become uncovered.' So he invoked Allaah for her.' [al-Bukhari]

I've actually visited Muslim patients who have been near death but in very good spirits knowing in their hearts that their condition is a great opportunity if they are patient and trust in God

salaams