Confusion about genelogy in Matthew

[Phoebe]

I was asking where it said that the lineage had to come through Jesus's 'father'.(male lineage) Mary was also of the house of David. A child receives their "Jewishness" from the mother. Hence, Mary was enough for Jesus to be from the house of David.

A betrothal was really a covenant of marriage. Betrothal was as binding as marriage, so a divorce would have been necessary to break this agreement. (engagement in modern terms)

 

[Crazy Liz]

Hi Crazy Liz, Thanks for the thoughts so far... But, IF it was legal, why would the Holy Ghost say this...

Mat 1:19-20 KJV
(19) Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
(20) But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.​

??

OK, I'm sorry, Paul. I often assume Christians are at least somewhat familiar with Jewish marriage customs. I thought someone above had described the 2 parts of the Jewish marriage, as practiced in the first century, consisting first of the betrothal, where the husband makes the marriage contract with the wife's father, and the actual marriage, where the groom takes the bride into his own home.

The present-day Jewish wedding customs are derived from those practiced during the Second Temple period. The elements of today's Jewish weddings symbolize the customs that were in practice during the first century. Today, the two parts of a Jewish wedding occur on the same day, but in the first century they were separated by a substantial period of time, often a year. Today, after signing the ketubah, the groom gives the bride a ring or something else of stated monetary value. The Jewish wedding canopy is symbolic of taking the bride into his home. After that, the two of them go into a room to be alone together for a short period of time (for Orthodox Jews, this may be the first time they have ever been alone together and the first time they ever touch each other), after which they come out and join the party. This time alone is symbolic of the privacy of their family relationship. IOW, it's not proper to ask when the marriage was actually consummated. They are married when the steps of the ceremony are complete.

So, the Annunciation occurred while Mary and Joseph were betrothed. They had concluded the first part of t the marriage, and were legally married, but the marriage was not complete until the bride entered the groom's home. Usually, there was a party when this happened, but the angel apparently told Joseph to take Mary home, and to do it quietly.

Does this make sense now? I keep thinking you must know some of these details already, so I may still have left out some things you want to know.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I was asking where it said that the lineage had to come through Jesus's 'father'.(male lineage) Mary was also of the house of David. A child receives their "Jewishness" from the mother. Hence, Mary was enough for Jesus to be from the house of David.

A betrothal was really a covenant of marriage. Betrothal was as binding as marriage, so a divorce would have been necessary to break this agreement. (engagement in modern terms)

Yes, but the kingdom (David's dynasty) was patriarchal, passing from fatehr to son. There is no evidence in the OT of a woman ascending to the throne or of the Davidic line passing through a daughter.

The idea of "Jewishness" coming from the mother is a rather late (medeival) development, I believe. I believe I have described some of the ways legal paternity could be established in the OT.

 

[@@Paul@@]

OK, I'm sorry, Paul. I often assume Christians are at least somewhat familiar with Jewish marriage customs. I thought someone above had described the 2 parts of the Jewish marriage, as practiced in the first century, consisting first of the betrothal, where the husband makes the marriage contract with the wife's father, and the actual marriage, where the groom takes the bride into his own home.
.........
Does this make sense now? I keep thinking you must know some of these details already, so I may still have left out some things you want to know.

It makes perfect sense, and that's sorta what i thought... I guess my line of questioning was not clear earlier... But thank's for taking the time to explain all that - a lot of NEW stuff there..

 

[rainbowprism]

Did anyone read post #39 and #40?!

 

[Crazy Liz]

Did anyone read post #39 and #40?!

Yes.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Did anyone read post #39 and #40?!

Yes, great posts.... My question was not whether Christ would come through the lineage of David, but through that lineage on the male side... i.e. what gave Him the title of KING of the Jews?

.........I do not think it would have came through the mother.

 

[rainbowprism]

Yes, great posts.... My question was not whether Christ would come through the lineage of David, but through that lineage on the male side... i.e. what gave Him the title of KING of the Jews?

.........I do not think it would have came through the mother.

Jesus recieved Mary's heritage. He wasn't born from Joeseph. He got the title of king because he was the prophesied Son of God.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Jesus recieved Mary's heritage. He wasn't born from Joeseph. He got the title of king because he was the prophesied Son of God.

I think there's a little more to it than that... Otherwise Matthew, the "Kingly" Gospel would have just said "He IS the Son of God > Therefore King"... Instead we're given the lineage of Joseph.

 

[rainbowprism]

Ok, I understand but I think that has already been answered by someone else....this is getting to the 'splitting hairs' point I think... (shrugs) I'm going to put my thinking cap on.

 

[rainbowprism]

I think there's a little more to it than that... Otherwise Matthew, the "Kingly" Gospel would have just said "He IS the Son of God > Therefore King"... Instead we're given the lineage of Joseph.

look at the genealogies given for the families of Joseph in the gospels of Matthew *(ch 1) and Luke (ch3).

At first it appears that Matthew and Luke are giving genealogies of two different families. We will see that this is partially true.

The genealogy given in Matthew is from the family on Joseph's side of the lineage.

The genealogy information given in Luke is from Mary's side of the lineage.

The lineage is pretty much the same until the time of King David.

You will notice their is quite a difference. *Yet the bible tells us these are both the lineages of Joseph. How do we explain this? Let's look at a coupla of facts.

1) Mathew starts the ancestry with Abraham, Luke starts with Adam. They are naming the same ancestors with a couple of exceptions.Now Matthew's genealogy is different from Luke's genealogy, though both trace Jesus' line through Joseph. Though both trace Joseph's line, they do not trace it the same way. The difference is that Luke traces Joseph's line biologically, while Matthew traces Joseph's kingly line. For example, if an OT king did not have a son, a nephew might be the successor to his throne. The nephew would be the kingly successor. Matthew is tracing back the kingly succession from Jesus to David. Matthew is very selective in his genealogy. He sometimes skips hundreds of years in this genealogy The exceptions are caused by multiple family members and are not significant, as the lineage joins together again later.

2) Solomon and Nathan were both David's sons. The descendants of Solomon had many kings and royalty in the family lineage. This is lineage to Joseph's father, Jacob.

3) Nathan was the patriarch of the descendants of Mary.

4) How did Joseph get into the lineage of Mary? In those days, when a man married he became by law a member of the bride's family. Thus Mary's father Heli inherited Joseph as a son. Joseph was a 'son-in-law'.

5) Eliakim was a king who was cursed for his evil doings by the prophet Jeremiah, so no descendant in this line could ever be a successful ruler again. This then eliminated Joseph's side from being the father of the Messiah.

AN IMPORTANT KEY TEXT FOR DIVINITY
Matthew 1:16- 'and to Jacob was born Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.'
The translation 'by whom' is unmistakably 'singular-feminine'. This removes Joseph and any other man from Jesus procreation.


Matthew traces Jesus' line to David to show that Jesus was the promised Son of David. He possessed a legal right to David's throne. None of the opponents of Jesus ever challenged him as to his right to call himself a Son of David. The genealogies were readily available; even his enemies knew Jesus was rightfully a royal successor to David.

Christ was the king who had come to set up a kingdom that would never end. Jesus' very first sermon in Matthew's gospel is this brief statement "repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." The promised son of David has come in the Lord Jesus to gather a kingdom to himself.
But this kingdom was unlike anything expected by the Jews. They were hoping for an earthly kingdom where the Son of David would reign in physical Jerusalem, and all the Gentile nations would serve Israel. Instead we were granted a heavenly kingdom.

 

[@@Paul@@]

look at the genealogies given for the families of Joseph in the gospels of Matthew *(ch 1) and Luke (ch3).

At first it appears that Matthew and Luke are giving genealogies of two different families. We will see that this is partially true.

The genealogy given in Matthew is from the family on Joseph's side of the lineage.

The genealogy information given in Luke is from Mary's side of the lineage.

The lineage is pretty much the same until the time of King David.

You will notice their is quite a difference. *Yet the bible tells us these are both the lineages of Joseph. How do we explain this? Let's look at a coupla of facts.

1) Mathew starts the ancestry with Abraham, Luke starts with Adam. They are naming the same ancestors with a couple of exceptions.Now Matthew's genealogy is different from Luke's genealogy, though both trace Jesus' line through Joseph. Though both trace Joseph's line, they do not trace it the same way. The difference is that Luke traces Joseph's line biologically, while Matthew traces Joseph's kingly line. For example, if an OT king did not have a son, a nephew might be the successor to his throne. The nephew would be the kingly successor. Matthew is tracing back the kingly succession from Jesus to David. Matthew is very selective in his genealogy. He sometimes skips hundreds of years in this genealogy The exceptions are caused by multiple family members and are not significant, as the lineage joins together again later.

2) Solomon and Nathan were both David's sons. The descendants of Solomon had many kings and royalty in the family lineage. This is lineage to Joseph's father, Jacob.

3) Nathan was the patriarch of the descendants of Mary.

4) How did Joseph get into the lineage of Mary? In those days, when a man married he became by law a member of the bride's family. Thus Mary's father Heli inherited Joseph as a son. Joseph was a 'son-in-law'.

5) Eliakim was a king who was cursed for his evil doings by the prophet Jeremiah, so no descendant in this line could ever be a successful ruler again. This then eliminated Joseph's side from being the father of the Messiah.

AN IMPORTANT KEY TEXT FOR DIVINITY
Matthew 1:16- 'and to Jacob was born Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.'
The translation 'by whom' is unmistakably 'singular-feminine'. This removes Joseph and any other man from Jesus procreation.


Matthew traces Jesus' line to David to show that Jesus was the promised Son of David. He possessed a legal right to David's throne. None of the opponents of Jesus ever challenged him as to his right to call himself a Son of David. The genealogies were readily available; even his enemies knew Jesus was rightfully a royal successor to David.

Christ was the king who had come to set up a kingdom that would never end. Jesus' very first sermon in Matthew's gospel is this brief statement "repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." The promised son of David has come in the Lord Jesus to gather a kingdom to himself.
But this kingdom was unlike anything expected by the Jews. They were hoping for an earthly kingdom where the Son of David would reign in physical Jerusalem, and all the Gentile nations would serve Israel. Instead we were granted a heavenly kingdom.

Thank you!!

 

[rainbowprism]

Thank you!!

Did I do it?!?!