confused.

[StormInside]

I was brought up Catholic and I like the feel of the Catholic church services, the hymns, the sense of community etc. I don't consider myself a Christian though because things like the trinity and Jesus dying for our sins don't make sense to me unless I try and look at them as a metaphor rather than literal truth. Also I am not against abortion or contraception and various other things. I believe I have had direct experience of God on many occassions, it's sometimes a feeling so intense that it overwhelms me, like pure love pulsing through my body and soul. I do believe in God because of this, but not a God of any particular religion. I'm 26 now and I've been "feeling" God since I was 16. However I was using illegal drugs at that time and sometimes wonder if that is what has caused this, maybe it affected my brain chemistry? But on the other hand the feeling is so real, undeniable and I haven't used any drugs at all in about 4 years. I've also felt touched by "evil" I guess you would call it, that actually started before I felt God or touched drugs. Maybe I'm just mad, but on many occassions I felt an intensely evil presence and even heard voices, my friends and I did a ouija board and scary things happened after that. A friend of mine killed himself when I was 16 and I spent about a year self-harming, ten years later my arms are still scarred, it's very embarrassing and I never wear short sleeves. At that time I was having terrifying nightmares and hypnagogs, I was clinically depressed and attempted suicide at age 17. I was in hospital for a week but obviously survived. At 20 I got involved with an abusive man who raped and hit me, emotionally abused me and pressurised me into continuing to take drugs when I wanted to stop. I had lost my virginity to him and after I broke free from him I slept with 3 random men which I'm not happy about. I've now been celibate for nearly 4 years. I've written on here before about that stuff because I was feeling unclean. But now I have 2 different issues. The first is whether I should be happy with just accepting that there is some kind of God, or whether I need some formal religion. I've studied Christian theology and other religions at A-Level and degree level and unless I see Christianity as a metaphor, I just can't accept it. I'm really interested in esoteric views. My other problem is that I feel torn between darkness and light. On the one hand I feel the love of God and want to live a happy fulfilling life. On the other I am tempted towards self-destructive behaviour. I have been bulimic for 11 years, before that I was anorexic for 2 years. I can't stop binging and starving. I just can't eat normally. On the one hand I want to eat healthy nutritious food and be fit and healthy, on the other hand I want to forget about health and just starve myself until I get great cheekbones and can fit into a size 0. So I'm constantly starving for a while, then binging for a while, as a result my health is not good. I have also felt constantly suicidal since the age of about 15. I don't feel immediately suicidal, I'm not about to do it today or even this year, it's just always there in my mind, like one day, you know, it's just an option if you need it one day. I often listen to rock and metal music with fatalistic depressing messages, and my favourite rockstar was a very troubled bloke who self-harmed, had anorexia and was in a mental hospital. Why am I attracted to stuff like that? Sometimes I think maybe because it offers an easy way out, when things get too much you can just give up, collapse into despair and just die. How can I stop finding the dark side so attractive? How can I want to be healthy and fit instead of skinny and unhealthy? I guess I'm just rambling a bit. I feel torn. I just wish I could be healthy, find my Prince Charming, fall in love and be happy like a normal person. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed with the bliss of God, sometimes I feel despair at the horror and futility of life. I wonder sometimes if I'm just nuts. I don't really know what the point of me writing this is but this has been going on for so long. I just want a normal life! I have also been stealing for a long time, part of me wants to stop but.... I don't know, I know there's no excuse. I just wonder if it's worthwhile trying to live a good life.

 

[Van]

"But now I have 2 different issues. The first is whether I should be happy with just accepting that there is some kind of God, or whether I need some formal religion. I've studied Christian theology and other religions at A-Level and degree level and unless I see Christianity as a metaphor, I just can't accept it. I don't consider myself a Christian though because things like the trinity and Jesus dying for our sins don't make sense to me unless I try and look at them as a metaphor rather than literal truth."

Christianity says you do not need a religion, you need salvation because you are a sinner, condemned to Hades and the Lake of Fire. What is so hard to understand of Jesus dying for the sins of mankind? God is just and will justly punish each and everyone for their misdeeds, unless He has mercy upon them. He will have mercy upon those who believe in Jesus as their savior - He died to become the propitiation for the whole world - and as their Lord - committed to following all He has commanded. So the key to obtaining mercy rather than justice is God counting your faith in Christ as righteousness.

As for the Trinity, this doctrine - One God in three persons, not three gods, or one god and two creations - is based on John 1:1, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Since there are no other Gods except Yahweh, the Trinity (as paradoxical as it is) was inescapable. Other efforts to explain the scripture usually end up denying that Jesus is God Almighty. But Hebrews clearly teaches Jesus, the Son of God, is Yahweh, God Almighty.

 

[aiki]

Okay, well, so far living life your way has resulted in:

- suicidal tendencies
- anorexia
- bulimia
- unpleasant occult experiences
- rape
- general confusion
- compulsive behaviour
- anxiety
- depression

Did I miss anything?

Personally, I don't think your way of approaching life and the issue of God is working out very well. Is there any likelihood that continuing on as you have been doing is going to improve your life? No. None at all, I think. So, why not make some changes?

As a Christian, I believe, your problems are all ultimately related to the one important question: What is the truth about God? Really, you have already answered that question and have been living accordingly for a while now. It hasn't been a good experience, from what I can gather from your post. Maybe a new, different view of God is in order.

You see, the Bible tells us that God is at the center of everything. This means, in part, that He has a specific purpose in making you. Your life, then, is not entirely yours to do with as you please. God has made each of us to find life's greatest fulfillment in doing what it is He has made us to do. Pursuing any other purpose will inevitably result in disappointment and dissatisfaction. How many times have I heard of people arriving at the peak of their profession and, having attained all the power, prestige and money they wanted, still feel deflated and empty? Many! Others, like yourself, loose themselves from the anchoring, stabilizing power of God and, expecting to be captain of their own destiny, find instead that they've entered into a life that is controlled by impulse, and fear, and unhappiness.

Perhaps it is time to acknowledge that you have things wrong when it comes to God. Perhaps those things you've refused to believe about Him and what He has done for you through His Son, Jesus Christ, are the doorway through which lies a better, fulfilling life - the life you were made to live!

I can tell you as one who has walked with God many years now that my life, even with the troubles that are common to us all, has been rich, and fulfilling and joyful. God has been as good as His Word to me. He can be to you, as well.

Peace.

 

[MLEN]

"My other problem is that I feel torn between darkness and light. On the one hand I feel the love of God and want to live a happy fulfilling life. On the other I am tempted towards self-destructive behaviour."

My dear friend, first let me say that I am so sorry that you feel so torn as you do. Yet your situation is not so different from that of many who have wanted to do God's will and yet satan, the enemy of our souls, is attempting to keep you from the complete freedom that God so much wants to grant you from such destructive behavior.

First, I adjure you not to give up on God. Paul in the book of Romans 7:15-25 speaks of a warfare that goes on in everyone of us at some point. It is the battle between good and evil that causes us to do what we do not want to. But ultimately, you must decided who you will serve. Either the good God or the evil devil.

If you are sincere in wanting to serve God you must ask him to deliver you from the darkness which draws you to it. And if you have not yet done so, you must confess that you are a sinner, accept that Jesus Christ died to save you from your sins and then ask him to dwell in your life. For after Paul discusses this issue of the warfare that goes on inside of us, he then says in Romans 7:25 and 8:1 that Jesus Christ is the only one who can free you from this body of death and destruction (Romans 7:24).

Where there is life there is hope. God is even able to deliver you from eating disorders. He loves you and wants you to live a happy, healthy life too. Surrender your all to him and do not believe for one moment that he will cast you away, for he certainly will not. Do not worry and think that you may not be good enough - for not one of us is. We have all sinned in the sight of God at some point in our lives. But still he offers to you and all of us that free gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ and is ready to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrighteousness if you but ask.

I'll be praying for you.

 

[StormInside]

But there are some things that don't make sense to me. I don't understand why God needed Jesus to die for our sins. People say that God's justice demands that the price for sin be paid, but how is it justice for someone who didn't commit the sin to pay the price? If I rob a bank and get caught, no-one would think it was ok for my mum to say, "I love my child, don't send her to prison, I'll do the time instead." Why didn't God just write the debt off?

Also, you know a couple of times in the bible God destroyed cities/the world and killed all the people because they didn't turn out how he wanted, and changed some laws, I don't understand how this can be. If God is omnipotent and omniscient then surely he would have known how things would turn out and would have acted differently to begin with instead of changing things that went wrong later?

 

[StormInside]

Also, if God created everything, then evil must have come from God. I know people say it's because Adam and Eve disobeyed God, but angels/Satan had already disobeyed God, and anyway God created them the way they were. Free will doesn't explain it, if there wasn't any evil to begin with then we could have free will without the choice to choose evil.

 

[Van]

Hi StormInside, at the risk of repeating myself, why did Jesus die for your sins? You will get justice from God, which will be punishment for your misdeeds, and then destruction in the Lake of Fire. Sound good to you? Can you avoid justice by being good and saying you are sorry? So you have no hope, no chance, no nothing. So why did Jesus die for your sins?

Forget Penal Substitution doctrine, it is a false doctrine, Jesus was no whipping boy!

Why bring up the Old Testament destruction? You sound like an atheist with an agenda. God created life, and He can take like away. God says you are to love your neighbor as yourself.

God is all powerful (omnipotent) and all-knowing (omniscient) but let's define omniscience as "God knows everything He has chosen to know." That way He can forgive sins and "remember them no more forever." Exhaustive knowledge of the future is false doctrine, again something atheists with an agenda toss out to bash Christianity.

Why did God do this and not that? God is sovereign and He does as He pleases, not what pleases you. Our job is not to ask for a re-deal, but to play the cards we are dealt using the principles of love, mercy and justice.

Last one of the usual atheist suspects, why is there evil in the world. God created mankind so that some would choose to glorify God. And these would become His chosen people. Whoever believes in Christ shall not perish but have eternal life. So for us to make the choice to trust in Christ, we must have the capacity to choose not to trust in Christ, otherwise our "choice" (non-choice) would not bring glory to God.

Why did God arrange the fall of Adam? Recall the story of Gideon, and how God reduced the size of his army, so the victory would bring more glory to God? In the same way, when a fallen wretched soul like me turns to Christ, that brings more glory to God.

"We could have free will without the choice to choose evil?" Yes, but before we enter the eternal kingdom, our range of choices includes evil, so that we gain an appreciation for God's righteousness. Besides evil depends upon whose ox is being gored. If two soldiers meet on a battlefield and one shoots the other, the one shot would say the event was evil, for his expectations and desires were disrupted, but the one making the shot would consider it good because it protected himself and his comrades in arms.

 

[MLEN]

Hi Storm

"But there are some things that don't make sense to me. I don't understand why God needed Jesus to die for our sins."

The Bible tells us in Hebrews 9:22 that

"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."

Why the shedding of blood is a requirement for the remission of sins is something God knows in his divinity.

As told in the old testament of the Bible, the Israelites had to sacrifice animals on a regular basis to atone for their sins. But all of these sacrifices were leading up to/pointing to the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Because the shedding of Christ's blood on the cross was the sacrifice of all sacrifices which ended the need to offer any more animal sacrifices, Jesus was therefore the perfect sacrifice once and for all. The entire chapter of Hebrews 9 speaks of this matter very plainly.

To respond to your thought as copied below:
"I don't understand why God needed Jesus to die for our sins. People say that God's justice demands that the price for sin be paid, but how is it justice for someone who didn't commit the sin to pay the price?"

Such and act on God's part can be summed up in this one word - Love. God is a loving, merciful God who would do what it takes to redeem us back to him. You are probably familiar with John 3:16 which says: "For God so loved that world that he gave his only begotten son..." In Jeremiah 31:3 we are told that he loves us with an "everlasting love", and 1 John 4:8 says "God is love" (i.e., the very essence of his being is love).

Actually, there have been some on this earth who have taken the rap for people they love. But God takes it a step further because he did that and more. In Romans 5:7-8 we are told that a man would scarcely die for another righteous or good man, " But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." In other words he even died for those who killed him, for those who are set against him and for those who continue to shun him. He made the choice to love us regardless, the only question now left is will we make the choice to accept that free gift of love and the promise of eternal life that he offers us?

Finally Storm you said:
"I just wonder if it's worthwhile trying to live a good life."

What is worthwhile is surrendering your life to Jesus Christ. Anything you try to do on your own will never live up to the perfect goodness of God. But the one thing you can do (and only you can do this for yourself), is to confess that you are a sinner and to accept that Jesus died on the cross to cleanse you from all unrighteousness. Once you do this, his righteousness becomes yours and you are now free from condemnation in God's sight. All practicing Christians have had to do this at some point in their lives. For it is the first step to Christ, to God and to an abundant life on earth as well as an eternal life to come.

Blessings

 

[salida]

Evil didn't come from God-it comes from Satan whom God created. That board your playing with will open yourself up to demons-what the Bible calls familiar spirits. Your attracked to the dark side because you have left God. Satan wants to steal, kill and destroy everyone.

Please read this: Are you a good person? The Good Test Can you keep the 10 Commandments all the time 100% of the time? Only Jesus could. Mankind has spiritually fallen- only Jesus can fix this. The bible isn't just one big metaphor, www.TheBibleProofBook.com and www.christiananswers.net. Also read, The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law concerning circumstantial evidence of bible). Josh tried to prove the bible wrong -but ended up being a christian. Also, Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest).

Biblical Circumstantial Evidence (Scratching the Surface Only)

Internal Evidences
Prophesies that are confirmed within Bible

- Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke's time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 -Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

**I can list at least 20 more of these.
-Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20) and a fourth great kingdom to follow - part iron and clay - which is the Roman Empire - during this empire Christ came and the church was established - Daniel 2:44.

-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10

Consistency
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

External Evidences
(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never be built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22)
Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-28)

Bible before Science
He hangs the earth on nothing - Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago - some scholars think it could be even 3000 years ago)
Note: Man only knew this for 350 years
Earth is a sphere, Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight, Job 28:25
Gravity - Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33
Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogoical Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

 

[salida]

Come to God by repenting and asking Him to forgive your sins. Then ask for the Holy Spirit so that you can live a christian life. Without it we don't have the ability to do this with human effort alone. Then read bible and pray daily-you will grow in Christ daily-by the work of the Holy Spirit. Its a lifelong lifestyle-as we must die daily to our flesh. After while you won't want to practice sin but we won't be sinless til you get to heaven. Feel free to email me anytime. Find a church that is serious about God-not a christian social country club or a mere church acting like a business. Surround yourself with others that will inspire you-not dead beats who drag people down.

 

[aiki]

But there are some things that don't make sense to me. I don't understand why God needed Jesus to die for our sins. People say that God's justice demands that the price for sin be paid, but how is it justice for someone who didn't commit the sin to pay the price?

It isn't justice, its mercy and self-sacrificing love.

If I rob a bank and get caught, no-one would think it was ok for my mum to say, "I love my child, don't send her to prison, I'll do the time instead." Why didn't God just write the debt off?

I would expect people would think such a mother very noble, and selfless, and loving. They would appreciate the sacrifice she's willing to make for her child. Justice wouldn't be served, though, if the bank robbery wasn't punished. The guilty man must pay for his crime. Likewise, a holy and just God can't look upon sin, upon evil, and simply write it off with an "Oh, that's okay. Forget about it." Doing so would be distinctly unjust and would make accommodation for sin, which a holy and just God cannot do. Instead, God satisfied both His holy justice and His loving mercy by paying the punishment for our sins Himself.

Also, you know a couple of times in the bible God destroyed cities/the world and killed all the people because they didn't turn out how he wanted, and changed some laws, I don't understand how this can be. If God is omnipotent and omniscient then surely he would have known how things would turn out and would have acted differently to begin with instead of changing things that went wrong later?

That's how you might have done things as a finite, imperfect creature, but this isn't how an infinite, perfect God chose to do things. He doesn't seem to be particularly eager to explain every little detail of His thinking to us. We couldn't comprehend it even if He tried. It seems He wants us to simply trust Him when He isn't forthcoming with answers to all our questions. Some things He has made perfectly clear; other things, well, He leaves us to wonder about.

What would we be like in a world where there was no evil, no pain, no death? Since all of these things have come out of our capacity to choose between good and evil, between obeying God and not obeying Him, in order for us to live in a world free of pain, death and evil God would have to suspend our ability to choose between good and bad, between loving Him and hating Him. He would have to make us into human robots programmed only to love and obey Him. Does that sound preferable to our present state? It doesn't to me.

If God simply went along behind us and cleaned up all our sinful messes; if He went about undoing, or negating all our sin and its consequences, He would, in effect be assisting us in sinning. But a God who let us sin with impunity wouldn't be holy or just, would He? No, He would, in fact, be evil. Moreover, a God who would do as I've just described would be effectively negating our freedom of choice as well. Neither of these things I would want from my God. Would you?

Also, if God created everything, then evil must have come from God. I know people say it's because Adam and Eve disobeyed God, but angels/Satan had already disobeyed God, and anyway God created them the way they were. Free will doesn't explain it, if there wasn't any evil to begin with then we could have free will without the choice to choose evil.

In a sense, you're right: Evil did come from God. I think, though, that it would be more correct to say that only the potential for evil came from God. Imagine a man who makes a carving knife. In order for the knife to do what it was intended by its maker to be and do, it must have a very sharp cutting edge. Now, although the knife maker intended the carving knife to carve wood, its cutting potential may be used to do other, harmful things. In the hands of a murderer, such a knife may be used to kill someone. This was never the intent of the maker of the knife, however. His intent was simply to make the knife capable of carving wood. In the same way, in order to make us as He intended us to be, God had to give us a "sharp cutting edge" that has the potential to do good and to do harm. It is never God's intent that we should use our "cutting edge" - our intellect, our self awareness, our free moral agency - to do evil, but the potential for us to do so must necessarily be there in us for us to be as God intends.

Peace.

 

[bluelime2]

*praying for you

 

[MLEN]

That was profound illustration aiki. Well said.

 

[awayforawhile]

Thing about God is: he's totally just and totally "in control". No man can find God on their own, because our sins have removed us from Him through His justice. Yet God so loved the world that He came to earth to take the penalty on our behalf -- not through "human" ideas of justice but His own divine ideas.

We can't really argue with Him about why or how He chose to do it, we're simply not in that position. We just have the life of Jesus to study and figure it out -- and who is anyone to say God could have done it "better" than he did?

The good news about all of this is that He's in control, and He loves us beatifully and brilliantly enough that He GAVE HIMSELF to fulfill his laws of justice, and enables so many (billions) to come to Him through faith. That's all it takes -- faith and true willingness to follow his example. It's a poignant and elegant system IMO and it really shows how much God loves us.

Lots of people have given their opinions (me included) but I honestly encourage you to read the book of Matthew (the first one in the New Testament... as a start anyway) and see for yourself how Jesus really lived, acted, loved, died, and came back. It's eye-opening to say the least.

 

[woundedsoldier]

"I have 2 different issues. The first is whether I should be happy with just accepting that there is some kind of God, or whether I need some formal religion."

Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?

"My other problem is that I feel torn between darkness and light."

Where does this battle with darkness and light come from? Do you believe in God or not? On one hand you say you are interested in religions other than Christianity and then you say you want to please God. How can you please God if you don't believe in Him? According to the Bible there is only one way to God, and that is through His son, Jesus Christ. The Bible says that if you do not choose Jesus, by default you choose Satan.
II Corinthians 4:3,4 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the god of this world (Satan) hath blinded them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

According to the Bible, you cannot work your way out of your sin dept. "All our righteousness are as filthy rags." Jesus said that unless your righteousness were to exceed that of the Pharisees it is impossible for you to go to heaven. During New Testement times the Pharisees were looked up to by the common people of their time as the most holy people in the world, but according to God's standards anyone who trusts in their own righteosness--not in Christ's finished work on the cross--is missing the mark. "The wages of sin is death." That means that in God's eyes we are each sinners and deserve death. "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Whether we like it or not, we are born under the curse of sin, but the grace of God is greater than all our sin. Personally, I am thankful God is a loving God and made a way for us to get to Him through faith in Jesus Christ. Whether you accept Him or not, Jesus is the demonstration of a loving God. "Greater love hath no man than this, than to lay down his life for a friend."

"My other problem is that I feel torn between darkness and light."
That feeling of being torn between darkness and light is the Holy Spirit talking to you...Don't ignore Him.