confused, please help

[reminiscence]

I'd prefer advice from guys (or girls) who actually understand this type of thinking. Any thoughts are welcome, but I'd rather not have to read stuff that barely looks at the surface of it and automatically assumes the worst, just because "in any other guy", it'd mean such and such. Basically, if anyone can kinda clarify or maybe chime in as to being the same way...that'd be great. And please do not berate me or call me insecure (which I already know I am), because I am trying to understand. If it's possible, I'm willing to tough it out.

Right now, I'm in a "relationship" with a guy and I'm having a hard time describing what we're actually are.

Personally, I think normal "couples" would be bf/gf. Or would at least know that they aren't open to dating other people and they say that. But in this case, we're not, and I'm not even sure if I'm "allowed" to call us a couple.

He doesn't like titles. He finds them unnecessary, so even me requesting him to clarify "what we are" has him telling me that titles do nothing for the people, and that not having one doesn't mean that the feelings or affection is less real. Apparently to him, marriage is like a business contract...and he doesn't like that title either because of what he thinks it means.

So then onto the topic of love. He says he loves all his friends. He, I guess has "strong feelings" for all of them...which is something I've never gotten him to really explain in a way I understand.
He does say he cares for me the most. He just also stated he has never experienced "romantic love". What his definition of that is...I do not know.

Well then he says he doesn't want to commit "at this point in his life", but I'm again confused what he means. He says that he won't just go out with someone else without telling me, but I'm not sure if that means he won't dual-date or "I give you my word I won't". Maybe that's a minor detail but then again, I don't know.
But he says that he doesn't know what the future holds in terms of his job, so can't commit. I told him that my view about commitment wasn't about job or his future, but about our relationship and his dedication to me...but I don't think he gets it. I feel like we're speaking 2 different languages.

So then I'm afraid of commitment myself, which leaves me wanting to detract all affection. Which of course, he has his own little view about that. He thinks that "if you feel it, you should do it". Seems rather selfish to me. I just don't trust that way of living. I think that if you feel anything about anyone, sometimes they DO need to be monitored, depending on the situation. It's like if you're having a "low moment" with your gf and one day you have strong feelings for another, you don't just go with how you feel and move on.
Since I really don't understand HIS WAY of lack of commitment and the lack of titles, I don't want his affection either. I'm fearing that I can't trust him to the end, and that him just showing affection just because he wants is just going to make it more difficult for me. But he says he has "feelings" for me and needs to be able to show that affection.
Which BTW, we have been pretty physical up to this point, minus actual sex. To me any physical affection is special...to him that's normal if you have strong feelings of affection.

I know that titles aren't completely necessary, but I feel that they at least provide some sort of guidelines.
I can't completely let go of him right now because I am in a new city...shy...and he's the only person I have. So I do see him almost every day. Plus I do sincerely love him. But I feel like I'm beating against a wall and I can't grasp his way of understanding. I told him that his lack of commitment makes me feel like I'm good just not good enough...but he says it's not like that. But then what is it? If he thinks that titles are cheap...then what?

 

[bgus88]

Sounds like he's basically using you as much as you "like" the guy I would get out of it right now!

 

[DZoolander]

Oh please.

I hate to spout out canned stuff from pop culture - but - he just ain't that into you. If he's never experienced "romantic love" then guess what. He doesn't feel that for you.

...and you know what...that's okay.

I really have never understood women and their reaction to "rejection". Some people are going to be interested in you - some aren't. There's no harm and no foul to either. Think about all of the guys out there that you've ever met - and the great bulk of them that you like okay - but you're just not that interested in (in *that* way). Is it because there's anything fundamentally wrong with them? No. You just don't feel it.

Same goes for you. Other people can (and will) feel that way about you - and at the end of the day - it's okay. You don't need to be attractive to everyone. Not everyone needs to be pining at your doorstep. Most of the time the lack-of-interest will be mutual...but occasionally it will be like this. Occasionally you'll find a guy that you're interested in that just doesn't feel the same way in return (just like I'm sure the opposite has been true in the past). Accept it for what it is and move on.

Fundamentally I think women need to learn how to handle rejection better. If there's one thing that we guys have an upper hand with - it's that. We start experiencing "rejection" at a very early age...and until we get married...it really never stops. Sometimes when we ask a girl out - she's interested. Sometimes she's not. It's not an issue of "good enough". You just ain't his cup of tea.

On a final note - whenever anyone tells you anything in the future...it's a good rule of thumb to tack "with you" at the end of the sentence. If someone says "I'm not looking for a relationship" - that means - "I'm not looking for a relationship...with you". If they say "I don't want to get married" - that means "I don't want to get married...with you".

...that really helps keep things in their proper perspective...ya know?

 

[reminiscence]

I think you misread the whole thing. He's the one that doesn't want me to move on...so I doubt he just isn't that into me and there really is no rejection going on. You're ignoring everything I wrote there, because I had a long conversation with him about it, and I know he's not lying about how he sees things. It's just the way he is.

And I know he's not just in to it for the physical part. I was asking for understanding on his type of PoV.

BTW...The reason I'm asking this is because he's the one that wants things to continue just as they are. Not just the physical part which he is fine with doing without, but the part where he can tell me he loves me and just in general show that sort of affection that generally doesn't exist between the typical "just friends". But I don't want that around me while I'm unsure how to read everything...make sense? I can't just have someone pouring out affection...which I know is genuine.
I'm not at a loss of perspective and I pretty much know what is going on and I'm not not able to accept rejection. I've known him for over 4 years, and have been close to him for most of it. I know he's not the type to use me...but he is more "unique" in his thought processes. He's practically unique in most everything anyways.

Because romantic love is just a term, I don't ask that to be an requirement in word, although I need to figure out what separates me from his other friends. But I wrote all that in my first post.

 

[Godzila]

sounds like he has a preconceived idea of what he thinks a relationship should be,

and forgot about what God says a relationship should be.

What is your knowledge of a relationship?

 

[DZoolander]

Why would he want you to go away? You're not requiring a commitment from him, and you're giving him an ego boost at the same time? It feels good to have groupies if they're not demanding anything of you.

Try pressing the issue and make it 'real' however - and see what happens.

 

[waxlion10]

He is using you.
He doesn't want to be committed to just you, but he wants to keep you around for his enjoyment.
The fact that he won't talk about defining what your relationship is tells me he's being selfish and immature, as well as inconsiderate of your feelings.

You have admitted you're insecure. Hon, you deserve SO MUCH better than this. You deserve a guy who respects you, won't be ashamed to call you his girlfriend, will care for you as a person and not an object of desire... you want more out of a relationship, and you're not going to get it with him.

You can do better. You can. Single is way better than being with this guy, imo.

I could PM you a whole slew of reasons to ditch the dude, but I hope you get the main gist of what I'm saying: you really deserve better, and I hope you take a step back and see yourself for the beautiful young lady God created you to be

 

[reminiscence]

I appreciate your advice, but I think you have already believe that he has an ulterior motive. He has an issue with that idea with anybody...it's not just me. I don't give him any ego boost...believe me. lol He still has his issues, and I'm guessing the biggest reason he isn't sure about commitment is because of the job issue. That is if he can't find a job here...then he has to move.
Well...In my mind, I think that if he really wanted to...he would see to it that he did find a job here.

But then again, I don't understand how hard it is to find a job...especially in these times. He may only be speaking as truthfully as he can, which may come off as him not trying. But if I know anything, I know he wishes he could find a job here, just has a habit of not planning things. I can't really blame him for that when I have problems with that also, and he has other issues reinforcing that. But while things remain in the air, he probably doesn't want to say he's committed when it's possible he may have to leave.

@Godzilla That's tough. I guess what me and him do have is in a way a relationship...just without all the formalities. I guess in a way that just strikes fear, and perhaps it may be more an issue in myself. Not sure if I can put into words what I think defines a relationship...cause that is kinda hard. I don't know... x.x Maybe I should think over it.

@Waxlion Thanks. He's really just hard-headed...I don't know. I talked to him for 2 hours about this last night, and in the end he just said, "Well...whatever makes you happy, but it's going to be hard to not show you affection". I don't know...

Guess I'll talk to him again tonight about it...and see where he's coming from and present some of what you guys said to him. Thanks everyone.

 

[waxlion10]

I appreciate your advice, but I think you have already believe that he has an ulterior motive. He has an issue with that idea with anybody...it's not just me.

I didn't mean to imply that it was just with you, but the fact that you two have such vastly different ideas of what a relationship is raises a HUGE red flag in my mind.
What do you think I think his ulterior motive is? Using you to fool around with but not wanting to commit to you?
Isn't that what he's doing... whether it's with you or anyone he's previously been with or will be with?

I don't give him any ego boost...believe me. lol He still has his issues, and I'm guessing the biggest reason he isn't sure about commitment is because of the job issue. That is if he can't find a job here...then he has to move.
Well...In my mind, I think that if he really wanted to...he would see to it that he did find a job here.

But you don't KNOW this because you two don't seem to have good, open communication. How can being with someone who won't commit or communicate be healthy?

But then again, I don't understand how hard it is to find a job...especially in these times. He may only be speaking as truthfully as he can, which may come off as him not trying. But if I know anything, I know he wishes he could find a job here, just has a habit of not planning things. I can't really blame him for that when I have problems with that also, and he has other issues reinforcing that. But while things remain in the air, he probably doesn't want to say he's committed when it's possible he may have to leave.

What you say tells me that you try to make excuses for his behavior and justify it by saying, "Well, I'm not perfect either, so I can't expect any more from him..."

Please don't deceive yourself I'm really speaking out of concern here. No one says you have to "blame him" for not being able to find a job. Like you said earlier, you're "guessing" that's the biggest reason he doesn't want to commit.
Um, how about the fact that he told you he doesn't want to commit because he's "just this way" with everyone?

Please, please, hun, think about this and don't be offended or brush off what I'm saying or get defensive This is from one sis in Christ to another, and all spoken in love, I assure you.

 

[DZoolander]

Just out of curiosity sake - how old are you? If there's one thing that getting older provides - it's the perspective that as much as people think they're unique - nobody really is. Situations are the same - and outcomes are the same.

As far back as I can remember (heck - I remember talking to girls who knew guys that talked about how "love was just a word - and marriage was just a piece of paper... Institutions that I do not subscribe to. It's the feeling that matters... It's the feeling that I'm in search of"...and the like all the way back in 1986. That spiel has been going on forever.

And as long as that's been going on - there's not a single person who was the recipient of it that ended up happy with the outcome. Non-committal is simply that. It's non-committal. And...trust me...some day he will commit...however it won't be with anyone that he's ever given that line to. Despite what people say - they want to commit - but to the *right* person (and it's always someone they knew from the start that they wanted it with. Nobody ever discovered it with someone that they had given that spiel to).

But - another thing that you learn as you get older (ach! pushing 40).. People simply don't listen. So - it's all good.

Keep my s/n though. If it works out how you'd truthfully like it to in the long run - shoot me an email in a year or two and tell me how blissful you two are...and I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong. lol

 

[explodingboy]

I'm going to not say he using you just to be abit anti conformist here.

I'll confess to having only skim read allot of this thread, but I got the idea that perhaps he just isn't in touch whether by choice or not, with his emotional side. Essential, it looks like he works almost entirely on a logical level with zero emotion in his thought pattern, going by what he says about titles.

My reply in such a situation would be to ask if you have issues with this, because its unlikely he will change. It's also likely and seems from your post that a break up won't affect your friendship, but will give you the option of someone a little more emotionally connected, and possibly a brighter future. Entirely dependent by what you actually expect or want from any relationship.

Feel free to say I'm completely wrong though, I'm very bad at reading between the lines.. or reading the lines to begin with.

 

[Beauty4Ashes]

It sounds like you both have much different ideas of what a relationship consists of and how to express love and even what to call it. Is that something you would want to live with the rest of your life if you got married?(assuming he would even get married) If you can totally accept and be content with his unconventional terms of affection; or lack thereof, then fine. If not, which seems to be the case; you deserve somoene who isn't afraid to say I love you or commit to you.

Actually, on second thought, I think you are wasting your time. That is if you have been dating a long time. If its only been a few months or something, then just give it some more time. But if this is a long term relationship that you have been in a while, and he won't even call it a relationship or call you his girlfriend, the love issue aside; then he's really just not that into you and/or he is not mature enough to be in a healthy relationship right now.

 

[reminiscence]

Age? Close to 30.

Well aside from the title issue...he is trying what he can to not hurt me. But I think due to social issues...or rather a lack of...he hasn't really learned what is okay and not okay. And I know that does make it a uphill battle for me...but I have often just bared it. I guess though lately, my faith has been running dry and I'm finding it hard to pray...so things have become very difficult.
He isn't afraid to say he loves me.

The reason I find it so hard to ditch him is maybe an insane one. Maybe I'm overthinking it....but then again I'm not sure if I'm just falling into self-doubt.

Do you believe that God sometimes puts a burden in your heart to pray for a specific person?

I do. I have not been the type to pray much...but my burden for him is the reason I was able to get over the hurdle to return to God. I come from somewhat of a painful past... he was the reason I started picking my life again, because I also knew I couldn't pray for him when my own life was a mess. Yet that burden was so strong it would just hit me in the middle of worship...
Even after we had what I thought was a fallout...God would still me poking at me to pray for him...which at that time my human side did not want to do.
Fast forward to now...I feel like all these struggles and my weak spiritual self is making me not want to pray for him...even though in my heart I know I should.
I know this must all sound like, "Crazy girl stop labeling everything in terms of God's plan"...but... I'd like spiritual advice then.

Well aside from the praying... love is there despite the troubles. I do love him regardless and care for him deeply.
His thought about "romantic love" was "romeo and juliet" haha...so I don't think he really understands. Or maybe I'm being the clueless one, but my "romantic love" is not so...story-like.

I'm sorry...I don't mean to ignore anyone's words or make up excuses. I guess just with the situation, I'm trying to process his behaviors with my burden to pray for him. The reason I give his PoV is so that things are clear...not to really defend him.
Perhaps I'm posting as a rant... I've just been hurting so much lately, and I'm just scatterbrained right now...that all my thoughts are just coming out. Maybe I just need someone I can talk to. >.<

 

[Bootstrap]

Talking to someone would probably be helpful - do you have anyone you trust who can talk and pray through these things?

I hear that you're in a lot of pain, you're confused and conflicted, you care deeply for this man and want what is good for him, you would like a romantic relationship with him. But he does not seem to want anything that would feel like a good romantic relationship with you. He doesn't want to hurt you, but you still feel hurt. He wants to say that it shouldn't hurt, that you should just hang loose, but you feel the way you feel anyway - nobody can tell you what to feel.

I'd start by asking yourself what you need in a relationship, what those feelings are telling you. To me, it sounds like you'll continue to feel hurt and confused unless the two of you can define the relationship. Your feelings are telling you that something's not right, that he's stepping on you somehow, and that it hurts.

It also sounds like you like him, and you think he means well, and you want to give him credit, but it still hurts. And when you bring these things up, it feels like he's discounting your feelings and your understanding of what is right, not taking the seriously, not wanting them to have consequences.

I understand about having a burden for someone, I've been there at times myself. I'd pray for clarity on what your burden for him should be. If it's truly a burden from God, I think you should have some sense that it is right. "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light". If it feels heavy and wrong, pray for clarity, the burden you are carrying might not be one that Jesus has given you.

Jonathan

 

[latteda]

I understand about having a burden for someone, I've been there at times myself. I'd pray for clarity on what your burden for him should be. If it's truly a burden from God, I think you should have some sense that it is right. "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light". If it feels heavy and wrong, pray for clarity, the burden you are carrying might not be one that Jesus has given you.

I would echo this because it's been my experience as well. All I can say is that "the heart is deceitful above all things" (Jer. 17:9). I have been through an experience before with a guy where I felt that same burden, and I wanted to be with him romantically. In retrospect, I realize that it was probably not a burden that God gave me but rather one I took upon myself. Only God knows what is the case in your situation, but just be aware that it is incredibly easy for us to mistake what we think is God's voice for something else. I agree with Bootstrap that if this situation is "heavy and wrong," it may not be something that God really intends for you to bear. True, He sometimes does call us to hardship, but also I think we often bear things that He doesn't intend us to.

As far as my advice about your situation goes, I have to agree with the others that it seems unhealthy to me. For one thing, I would advise you to force yourself to get out and make some friends. There is a Winnie-the-Pooh quote that says, "You can't stay in your corner of the Forest waiting for others to come to you. You have to go to them sometimes.&#8221; That is so true! I know when you're shy it's hard to push out of your comfort zone, but it would be good for you to reach out and develop other close relationships in your life. You shouldn't depend on him to meet all of your social needs. Otherwise, if he ends up breaking things off with you or something else happens, you won't have others to fall back on. Besides, God did not design us to have all of our emotional and social needs to be met in one person alone (other than Himself).

The other thing is that from what you have described of your relationship, the only thing to me that distinguishes it from platonic friendship is the physical aspect. It doesn't sound like he wants a relationship...it sounds like he wants to be friends with physical benefits. I am not trying to attack his character by saying that, all that I'm trying to do is cause you to realize where things are. He doesn't want a relationship or commitment. That leaves you as friends. That being said, he shouldn't expect you to be physically affectionate with him. What are you to gain from this? Maybe you are different from me, but if I were in your situation, and he decided he didn't want a relationship with me, and yet had still given me physical affection, I would resent it afterwards.

I mean, if YOU changed the definition of your relationship to "totally and strictly platonic friends," WHAT would change? The physical aspect only? If so, it sounds like it's already "just friends," only he wants the added benefit of the physical side.

All in all, it sounds like he is expecting you to meet his needs without being willing to meet your needs in return. In a healthy relationship, a man should show effort to meet some of the emotional needs of his woman. If there are things you aren't getting that you feel you need in a relationship, chances are your resentment will grow the more time that passes.

I'm not trying to attack him or you. I understand that you think his point of view is justified, but in the end what it comes down to is...are you really going to be happy with this? There are some issues in a relationship that you look over and bear with; there are others that just get worse and more painful the more time passes.

 

[reminiscence]

I sorta do have someone I can talk to, but only to rant. Not anyone for advice. Maybe a lot of times, I write things knowing all these things that people tell me to do, but most of the time, I feel like I'm in the middle of a conflict. And the people I talk to can't quite see that conflict.
I'm trying to make a decision that takes into consideration my and his flaws...and our communication issues. That and things spiritual and physical.

Well today he said...he already sees us "more than friends" and that we already are like bf/gf. That he doesn't think that simply putting a title on it makes it what it is. It's more about how you treat someone. Maybe we're bothering too much with details, just in different ways. Am I putting too much importance on just the titles because of my insecurities? Or is he putting too much emphasis on "true feelings and actions" because of well...his brain?

If I changed it to strictly platonic...
Well it would also be the speech and the overall interaction that's somewhat flirty.

I agree I should pray for clarity. I think I'm growing impatient. But then again, with how dried out I've been feeling, I haven't been spending as much time in prayer as I should.

Thanks everyone...very much. Guess I still should put more thought/prayer into it while not completely emotional.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

If you feel led to pray for him, you can do that without staying in a relationship with him. Why do you need to pray for him? Is he a Christian or not? If he isn't then make him a platonic friend. If you can't keep your hands off each other you need to stay away.

Does your church have social activities you aren't taking advantage of? You might want to try a ministry. There's nothing wrong with checking out other churches for their social activities also.

My dear sister- my last two relationships ended up similar to what you're in now. In those I became exclusive very quickly, but there were issues and we became non-exclusive. One because there were doubts, the other because kids, money and circumstances seemed too much for him to figure out to make marriage happen. They both cared for me, but not enough to make a serious commitment. They were happy to keep the physical affection though. I know they both hurt when it finally ended, but the truth is that the commitment wasn't going to happen and I can say now that I'm glad.

You shouldn't have to be doing all the work to make it ok. I know how difficult it is to end these things, but I can tell you that you are settling right now. I'm guessing you're not ready to cut the ties, but start opening your eyes to other options. If your best friend was in your place you'd tell her she deserved better.

Picture your ideal godly relationship. How off is this one? Or maybe I should ask if you know what that relationship should look like? At my age I finally have a much better idea. I want a man who is a growing Christian ready to be spiritual leader of the family, one who is reading the Bible daily and involved in church and known to be a man of character. I've also known such a man as I've described who didn't seem to be emotionally available. Your guy is either playing games with you or similar to this guy.

You're spiritually dry right now and this would be a good time to start a Bible study, get in a small group and work on that. What Zoolander has said is pretty much on target. My last long term had several false starts where it appeared like we were really going to move forward, but something always got in the way. In his case he wanted to or convinced himself he wanted to, but just couldn't follow through. There is nothing wrong with standing up for yourself and not putting up with disrespect. The right man will be attracted to these things.

 

[Bootstrap]

but most of the time, I feel like I'm in the middle of a conflict. And the people I talk to can't quite see that conflict.

If you're feeling that way, there's a conflict. It could just be a conflict among different parts of you wanting different things, but it sounds to me like there is a conflict between what you want and what he's willing to give you, and it's easier to feel that then it is to explain it to others.

Well today he said...he already sees us "more than friends" and that we already are like bf/gf. That he doesn't think that simply putting a title on it makes it what it is. It's more about how you treat someone. Maybe we're bothering too much with details, just in different ways. Am I putting too much importance on just the titles because of my insecurities? Or is he putting too much emphasis on "true feelings and actions" because of well...his brain?

I wonder if you could shift from who is right (always a losing proposition!) to figuring out what each of you needs to feel good in the relationship, and how each of you can tend to the other's needs.

Sometimes it's particularly hard to ask for what you need if the other person doesn't acknowledge that need and seems really smart and reasonable. But a lot of love comes down to giving and receiving caring, and you don't have to be able to prove what you want or need.

If I changed it to strictly platonic...
Well it would also be the speech and the overall interaction that's somewhat flirty.

Oh! I assumed, and I think others have assumed, that you were at least kissing, and he didn't want to say you were boyfriend and girlfriend. This doesn't particularly sound like he's using you.

I agree I should pray for clarity. I think I'm growing impatient. But then again, with how dried out I've been feeling, I haven't been spending as much time in prayer as I should.

Thanks everyone...very much. Guess I still should put more thought/prayer into it while not completely emotional.

Sometimes I find that I can't pray for myself because I'm emotionally exhausted. When I reach that point, I find asking people to pray for me is very helpful. (Hey gang, can we all pray for her?)

I suspect you look to your emotions first when you want to know what's true, and he looks to his intellect first? I hope you can each learn to respect the other's approach too. Together, y'all can be very complementary if that's what's going on.

But sometimes I think it's very helpful to give your brain a vacation, give your feelings a vacation, and just rest in God, yield to God, let him do whatever he wants with you.

Blessings to you!

Jonathan

 

[Blank123]

i've got three words for you: cut and run.

 

[SiyoNqoba]

I'm only going to say one thing, but I hope you think about it:

Before I knew how old you were, I thought we were talking about a 14 year old boy.