confused and frustrated

[AndOne]

I would like to just say a word about the Calvary Chapel Churches. I had a wonderful opportunity to attend one week after week (including mid-week services) for five weeks while I was going through some training out in Peteluma, CA last October. The Church was Calvary Chapel of Peteluma. It was a very solid church and I absolutely loved the preaching that came down from the pulpit there.

Seeing as how Spurgeon was quoted and referred to on a regular basis - I was very surprised when I discovered that these churches as a whole vehemently deny Calvinism - though they do adhere to "Eternal Security" - which is a lot of what this thread is dealing with. I read the link in question a month or so ago when I returned from my training - and the red flags being discussed in this thread immediately went up with me as well.

I tought it ironic that they talk about not "being devisive" with other faiths within Christendom and then go forward and start disputing the five points of Calvinism and making it clear they are not Calvinist. That's kind of a double-standard imo. They should have said "we don't want to be devisive with other Christians unless they are Calvinists." The article in question is nothing but dogmatic since it lays out their own theological beliefs and standards - funny isn't it?

I really don't have a problem with Calvary Churches, however - and the next time I'm in CA I will probably go back to the one in Petaluma. I have a feeling that this one in particular is probably more "Calvinist" than others. I saw some Reformed ESV Bibles amongst the congregation and as I said the pastor, Zach Vestnies, loved to quote Spurgeon. I also heard him quote Martin Luther and some other of the old reformers. Yet this church is definately affiliated with the one that put the link out.

I have to say in regards to the pastor there. He is very young - 24 - but his preaching blew me away. God's hand is definately on him which was refreshing for me to see. He probably has the biggest church in that area and I am glad that his age appears not to be a barrier to his church's success. I often thought of our very own jon_ who frequents here quite often and is just a "kid" - but I get the same feeling about him whenever I read a lot of the posts he makes here.

 

[Bob Moore]

I have to say in regards to the pastor there. He is very young - 24 - but his preaching blew me away... I often thought of our very own jon_ who frequents here quite often and is just a "kid" - but I get the same feeling about him whenever I read a lot of the posts he makes here.

1 Timothy 4:12, Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

As I pointed out in the post that an adherent of Calvary Chapel objected to: No church has it completely right. But it appears that this young pastor is closer than many. God bless him.

 

[heymikey80]

I agree salvation is not by your works or else Jesus death and resurrection is worthless. However, after coming to the realization that it is only Christ and Christ alone who saves, are not Christians required to live a righteous life?

Hm. I don't want to underestimate the value of works in Christian life -- I just don't think "required" is the word to use. Maybe I'm obsessed by detail!

Say I believed on Christ and was unable to do good works before my death. They would not be required in that sense.

The Spirit of God works on our sins from the inside out. We're told we need to "work out" what has already been "worked in" us (Pp 2:12) -- the Spirit is put in us who believe, and He can overcome our sins no matter our failures.

I think the Spirit will change our wills (Rom 7) and our abilities (Rom 8) to where we are willing and able to do good works. They result. They're an effect. They're even a goal (Ep 2:10) of our salvation by faith.

Maybe that helps, or maybe I'm grabbing at nits. But I hope that might make some sense of where Reformed thought is on this matter of works.