Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

[TruthWarrior]

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[MoreCoffee]

I didn't say that it does.

No but you're implying that because Jesus fulfilled God's law, Christians don't have to keep the 10 commandments.

I didn't say that Christians need not live in accord with the moral teachings of the commandments. But exactly what do you mean by 'keep the 10 commandments' and what do you expect to be the result of making that effort?

 

[Stryder06]

But exactly what do you mean by 'keep the 10 commandments' and what do you expect to be the result of making that effort?

I think that "keep" means obey. And it's probably best to ask what dos scripture say the result would be of making said effort.

 

[tzadik]

Squint...I'm referring to external obedience. I agree that all of God's commandments (external) ALSO have internal meaning, and that keeping them allows us to understand deeper, wonderful truths about God's character. But these internal nuggets in Scripture do not replace the external commandments.
So my question was more along the lines of the external commandments, as I cannot see the "fruit" of your internal obedience, unless it is reflected from the inside out.
Do you think it's possible today for a believer to claim to keep God's commandments?

---
fyi...not sure what you meant with a mitzneft...but it sounded alot like a kippah, and there is no commandment in the Torah regarding wearing of this head covering (unless of course the reference regarding priests.)

 

[tzadik]

I think that "keep" means obey. And it's probably best to ask what dos scripture say the result would be of making said effort.

Actually...keep does not mean obey.
They're close...but the difference is actually a major one.

Because of this minor 'synonyming'---many believers say "it's impossible to keep the Law."

It's a bit of a study though..but it's an interesting one if you have the time

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well then, tell me what you think worshipping God on Saturday accomplishes?

"Worshiping God on Saturday"? Where did that come from?
Where does God command us to WORSHIP Him on the 7th day?
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But again you are missing the point, you are trying to find out "what's in it for me" when it comes to obedience to God, instead of realizing that it's the ONE and ONLY God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...the God who parted the red sea, provided redemption for all mankind and created this world----took the time to place specific instructions for those who He calls His. Do you realize what that means?

No creed, religion, tradition should stand in the way of the Holy Word of God as a guide, standard of living and path for us to walk in. When He gave Instructions about His Sabbath day, He did it with our best intentions in mind!

Maybe Isaiah 58 can help...

"If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, and honor it, desisting from your own ways, from seeking your own pleasure and speaking your own word, then you will take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; and I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

Okay.

Do you mean that worship can be offered on any day?

And do you see the commandment about the Sabbath as mandating rest on Saturday?

Who was the sabbath commandment made for?

 

[MoreCoffee]

I think that "keep" means obey. And it's probably best to ask what dos scripture say the result would be of making said effort.

I see that's your perspective but tzadik means something different.

 

[Stryder06]

Actually...keep does not mean obey.
They're close...but the difference is actually a major one.

Because of this minor 'synonyming'---many believers say "it's impossible to keep the Law."

It's a bit of a study though..but it's an interesting one if you have the time

You have my attention

 

[Stryder06]

Who was the sabbath commandment made for?

Man

 

[MoreCoffee]

Man

What do you think that means?

 

[Stryder06]

What do you think that means?

Exactly that. Man. Mankind. Humanity. People.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Exactly that. Man. Mankind. Humanity. People.

I was hoping you might offer your perspective on the context in which the word occurs. I guess you already knew that I know what "man" means.

 

[Stryder06]

I was hoping you might offer your perspective on the context in which the word occurs. I guess you already knew that I know what "man" means.

I thought you might be looking for something deeper. I was honestly giving you what I think it means within the context it was given. Wasn't trying to be s jerk or anything.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I thought you might be looking for something deeper. I was honestly giving you what I think it means within the context it was given. Wasn't trying to be s jerk or anything.

Okay, but the context is what Jesus said. I wanted to know what your perspective on his words is.

Mark 2:27

 

[Clare73]

A fact that until this day stands...is...

That NO ONE in the world (unless they grossly twist God's Word) can use the Master's words (Yeshua/Jesus) to prove that the Holy Law of God and any part of Genesis - Malachi is done away with, abolished or expired.

It's impossible, unless there is someway to disprove Luke 16:17.

Those who set the Scriptures against themselves do not understand them.

Lk 16:17 must be understood in conjunction with 24:44 and Mt 5:17-18, "until all be fulfilled. . .concerning me."
That has been accomplished.

And the Biblical fact that stands to this day is

Jesus' revelation of the last days (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT, are the words of Jesus.
And Jesus' revelation states that the Mosaic Law

1) was temporarily added (Ro 5:20; Gal 3:19) to the Abrahamic Covenant because there was no law (Ro 5:13) to reveal sin (Ro 7:13);

2) in fulfillment of Ps 110:4, the priesthood in the order of Aaron was replaced with the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11-12), with Christ as it new eternal high priest (Heb 7:17, 21);

3) the Mosaic Law which depended on the priesthood for its administration was, therefore, set aside (Heb 7:18-19), abolished (Eph 2:15), and replaced with the law of Christ, which is now the law of God (1Co 9:20-21), with no curse
(Gal 3:10) attached, and excludes all the ceremonial laws;

4) the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant, which was based on the expired Mosaic Law, was made obsolete (Heb 8:13), and replaced with the New Covenant (Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 9:15) whose Mediator is Christ;

and all the people of God are now under the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2) which is the law of love (Gal 5:6; 14;
Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10), with no curse (Gal 3:10) attached.

These are the Bilbical facts that have stood since the death of Christ.

 

[Stryder06]

Okay, but the context is what Jesus said. I wanted to know what your perspective on his words is.

Mark 2:27

That He is Lord of the Sabbath? That He is in charge of it. That's how I understand it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

That He is Lord of the Sabbath? That He is in charge of it. That's how I understand it.

Well, that's verse 28. I wanted to know what your perspective on verse 27 is.

 

[Clare73]

Because it had grown old and was disappearing.

By speaking of a new covenant, he implies that the first one is old. And anything old and ageing is ready to disappear.
(Hebrews 8:13 NJB)

How could God's holy law be perfect if it grew old and was disappearing?

You'll have to take that up with God since it is his word in Heb 8:13.

 

[MoreCoffee]

.

 

[tzadik]

Those who set the Scriptures against themselves do not understand them.

Lk 16:17 must be understood in conjunction with 24:44 and Mt 5:17-18, "until all be fulfilled. . .concerning me."
That has been accomplished.

Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

He definitely fulfilled everything concerning His first coming.
However, as a student of Scripture, I would hope that you believe He is coming back to fulfill yet many more things that were written about Him in His second coming!

EVERYTHING has absolutely not been yet accomplished. This is an indisputable fact.

Acts 3 summarizes this fact rather nicely:

18. "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.
19. "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
20. and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
21. whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Yes He has fulfilled everything written about the Suffering Servant.
BUT, He has yet to return to fulfill everything written about the Conquering King!
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It is at this time that this will happen: "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband."

Heaven and earth will literally pass away, just like He said in Matthew 5:18 (and Luke 16:17).

So in actuality Matthew 5:17-20 and Luke 24:44-- 100% agree with Luke 16:17.