Confused about hell

[theanticrash]

Now I'm more confused about hell.

 

[Sketcher]

Read this verse from the old testament:

Jeremiah 7:31
31They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire-something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

It say's here, that it did not enter Gods mind to burn Children. So why does the lake of fire enter Jesus mind in the new testament?

Those two passages are talking about different things. God was condemning human sacrifice in Jeremiah 7:31. Hell is not a sacrifice. Sending people there is not an act of worship unto God. Furthermore, the babies that were burned alive in sacrifice to the false god Molech were not according to anything I have read understood to be "sinners" who deserved punishment, but rather as costly sacrifices to appease him.

 

[food4thought]

Now I'm more confused about hell.

Like I said, how to understand hell is hotly debated within the church. You will get all kinds of interpretations here. I think a literal view of hell is misguided, but at the same time the passages about the fate of the wicked dead are indeed scary, indicating even to one who does not take them literally that it is a place one does not want to end up. Also, several passages seem to preclude the idea of the annihilation theory. I did an in depth study of these passages, and here is a quick sketch of what I think:

Wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:12; 13:42; etc.): "Wailing" is a Jewish practice of loud mourning over something or someone. "Gnashing of teeth" is either intense suffering/grief or intense anger. Those who have seen and experienced God's wonderful presence and are then forced to spend eternity separated from it will undoubtedly mourn and suffer grief.

Fire (Matthew 25:41; Mark 9:43; etc.) is many times used as a symbol of God's judgment in Scripture. As fire consumes into ashes, so God's judgment upon the wicked rebellious dead would consume them and bring them to utter ruin. Scripture also speaks of fire purifying metals, so it can also be looked upon as such a process.

Jesus also referred to it as outer darkness (Matthew 8:12; 25:30; etc.). In Hebrew, the word for darkness holds the connotation of twisting, or turning, away from the light. So the judgment would be for those who turn/twist away from the light... "God is light".

The worm does not die (Mark 9:48) typified the unending corruption of the soul consumed with sin.

The Greek word we translate torment (Revelation 14:11) literally means "to try against the stone", a metaphor taken from metal working, where the metal being heated would be taken from the fire and rubbed against a test stone to determine it's purity. That word eventually came to also be used of the torture Roman officials used to pry confessions from those they believed to be criminals. In the case of Revelation, the combination of fire and torment could very easily be looked at as a reference to the metal working practice, not the practice of Roman authorities. This wouldn't mean they are literally heated by fire to smelt off the impurities, only that they would be tested somehow to determine their purity.

The second death (Revelation 20:14; 21:8) is a direct reference back to Genesis 2:17, where God tells Adam that the day he eats of the forbidden tree he will "surely die"... the text literally reads "die die". In other words, die twice: physical death (the separation of the soul from the body) and spiritual death (separation of relationship/communion with God).

So all the different references together, when taken as metaphors, indicate that hell is a place of God's judgment where the soul will be brought to ruin, intense sorrow and grief will be common, a place of turning/twisting away from God's light, where sins corruption does not cease, where they will be tested for purity "day and night" (yet because of sins ongoing corruption they will never become pure), rightly identified as the final spiritual separation from communion with God. Not a burning furnace where people are tortured by flames, immortal fireproof worms, and intense darkness. Yet more like a prison for those who will never be reformed from their sinfulness, who continually twist/turn away from God's light. It is the ruin of the soul's purpose of loving communion with God. It is the quarantine of those contaminated by sin from those who have been purified by the blood of Jesus Christ. What exactly do the lost actually sense/experience? I don't know.

Could it be that the very existence of hell, where the corruption of sin goes on in those who reject God, not be an additional source of wisdom for those who choose to obey God? Does the constant testing of the soul for purity, yet always finding sins corruption, not reveal the justice of God for their continued confinement?

Hope this helps, anticrash.

 

[Halbhh]

Now I'm more confused about hell.

It's one of several things we only are told limited things about. Of course, whether it's suffering forever, or instead awful suffering for a while into a final death (second death), either way it's not where we want to be! But the real motive for wanting to gain eternal life for me isn't a fear of hell very much but is instead a desire to be near God and dwell near Him and continue to have the bliss of His love that endures forever.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Now I'm more confused about hell.

...that's actually a good thing. It shows that whatever you thought 'hell' was supposed to be, or has been claimed to be, or has been traditionally understood to be, might be in need of some further investigation.

Sometimes, confusion is what comes when the sound of an opening door is heard and one is exposed to the mysteries outside.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Read this verse from the old testament:

Jeremiah 7:31
31They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire-something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

It say's here, that it did not enter Gods mind to burn Children. So why does the lake of fire enter Jesus mind in the new testament?

Jesus never mentions a lake of fire in the New Testament. That's found only in the Apocalypse of St. John, and given the nature of apocalyptic literature, there's no reason to understand it literally.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Do you not realize that the same Person who wrote Jerimiah is the same person who wrote the end of the New Test.

The person who wrote the Apocalypse of St. John was St. John the Divine. St. John didn't write the book of the Prophet Jeremiah.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Is hell everlasting or does one perish in the flame's.

Which side do I choose?

Without a definition of "hell" to go by the question is made difficult to discuss.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Now I'm more confused about hell.

It's vitallly important to understand that there is no single Christian view of hell--there never has been. Not every aspect of Christian thought has a dogmatic answer or position attached to it. Whereas there do exist dogmatic pronouncements on many theological issues, namely in the historic Creeds and Ecumenical Councils, no such thing exists for the topic of "hell". As such there has always been diversity of thought and opinion on the subject.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Major1]

The person who wrote the Apocalypse of St. John was St. John the Divine. St. John didn't write the book of the Prophet Jeremiah.

-CryptoLutheran

That is correct my brother. The author of both was the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:16........
"For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.:

Luke 24:27............
"And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

 

[Major1]

It's vitallly important to understand that there is no single Christian view of hell--there never has been. Not every aspect of Christian thought has a dogmatic answer or position attached to it. Whereas there do exist dogmatic pronouncements on many theological issues, namely in the historic Creeds and Ecumenical Councils, no such thing exists for the topic of "hell". As such there has always been diversity of thought and opinion on the subject.

-CryptoLutheran

Luke 16:23-31 gives the exact words of the Lord Jesus Christ.........
"In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' "'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

 

[Major1]

Without a definition of "hell" to go by the question is made difficult to discuss.

-CryptoLutheran

I disagree. There is lots and lots of information available for anyone who choose to believe that there is a place called hell.

 

[aiki]

Read this verse from the old testament:

Jeremiah 7:31
31They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire-something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

It say's here, that it did not enter Gods mind to burn Children. So why does the lake of fire enter Jesus mind in the new testament?

God did not command the sacrifice of children to idols. The means of that sacrifice - burning - is incidental to what God is denying through His prophet, Jeremiah.

Eternal conscious torment in hell is the appropriate punishment of our sin.

In Defense Of The Doctrine Of Eternal, Conscious Torment In Hell. | Christian Forums