Confronting leadership

[WilliamFloyd]

Since many of you have seen the corruption of the modern day system, I was curious about something. Have any of you ever confronted leadership with what you've been shown? Or did you mostly just leave quietly?

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

I've done both.
They have a lot at stake........and a paycheck........and an ego........

Assuming you are referring to a traditional church.

 

[1watchman]

If you are referring to any church gathering, it might be a good thing to at least let someone know why you feel the need to leave. Maybe they can correct things you perceive to be wrong. You can see some ministry on this at the biblecounsel web site too. I find that site to be very sound in ministry and what God intends for His testimony in the world. Look up always and live for God.

 

[WilliamFloyd]

Yes, Sheeple, I was referring to the system.

The reason why I asked this question is because I've encountered and read many advocating that a person just leave quietly and this seems corrupt on so many different levels.

 

[AlexDTX]

Since many of you have seen the corruption of the modern day system, I was curious about something. Have any of you ever confronted leadership with what you've been shown? Or did you mostly just leave quietly?

I would say this question should be applied to both paid clergy systems and house church groups. I confronted the leadership in the last paid clergy system about Jesus being the pastor and all else are referred to by him as hirelings. He had a guest speaker say that we would go to hell if we did not tithe. I confronted guest speaker on this, then the pastor told me I should have gone to him instead of his guest. My response was the Lord's command to go to the one you have ought with directly first. I finally left his congregation when his Easter message was completely on tithing. My wife and I stood up in the middle of his message and walked out. It was quiet, but visible to all the congregation.

This also occurred in a house church but in reverse. No one had ever contacted me on a one on one basis with their gripe against me. I got a call from a friend who said that three of the leaders wanted to meet with me since I did not qualify my statements with, "in my opinion". They said that they were following the biblical procedure, and I told them that they were ganging up on me and I refused to have their meeting. I reminded them that the person who had ought with me should have come to me one on one, but that never happened.

It is ironic that house churches use the passage that whenever two or more are gathered in my name then I am in the midst of them as their justification for small gatherings. The context of Jesus words are not fellowship gathering, but reconciliation when you have ought with someone. In other words, he is saying when two come together to reconcile then he is in the midst of them to heal their wounds. They asked me not to come back to their house church.

 

[dayhiker]

I was in a church where the pastor was retiring. I was then on the commit to hire the next pastor. They wanted to hire a pastor and wife who had just finished schooling to be pastor, but I didn't feel it was God's will. They voted positive and I voted negative. So I said my good byes and left with my family. That felt like the right way to do it at the time. No hard feelings that I know of.

 

[Witness2016]

Well one does have to keep in mind,
1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
3 Honour widows that are widows indeed.
Verse 17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Jeremiah 23:1-2 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord. 2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.

God Sees and Knows even the Hearts
If one is led to talk, then do so ...within the heart of Love Only and Always.

 

[Goodbook]

I just intreated mine as a father as timothy says.

Despite their behaviour which was unchristian, I tried to show them I wasnt going to do anything unbiblical so voted with my feet. Also with two or three other witnesses to their behaviour is enough to point out something is not right..so its not just an personal issue between you and them. If other church members feel the same way then you know that you not the only one.

If they notice you not coming anymore then that speaks louder than arguments, and God can speak to them about where they falling short, cos we (who are not elders or leaders) are not meant to Lord it over people either.

If they truly christlike then they will make an effort to pray for your return to their fold if thats where you meant to be. And God will convict them.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Since many of you have seen the corruption of the modern day system, I was curious about something. Have any of you ever confronted leadership with what you've been shown? Or did you mostly just leave quietly?

Hello I have spoken, confronted, stood up, written and tried to talk to ( so called0 leadership) in many places and have been attacked, pushed threatened lifted in the air and carried out, written against attacked violently etc etc , many times, sadly. to the shame of such men who sometimes find themselves as Diotrephes in 3rd John

 

[LoveofTruth]

Yes, Sheeple, I was referring to the system.

The reason why I asked this question is because I've encountered and read many advocating that a person just leave quietly and this seems corrupt on so many different levels.

we should not fear men or seek to please men, and love will many times stir us to speak out or try to help other sin bondage. Paul saw the corrupt men in Corinth and he said that what he did he would do to cut of occasion from them, he was exposing them to help the body but the more he loved them the less he was loved. But being crafty he caught them with guile. Paul would say to some was he their enemy because he told them the truth

 

[LoveofTruth]

Since many of you have seen the corruption of the modern day system, I was curious about something. Have any of you ever confronted leadership with what you've been shown? Or did you mostly just leave quietly?

I was in a gathering where the one man pastor Lord over the flock had such control and he would even say things like he was the head of the church and all should listen to him and if they don't they were in rebellion. He had no elders for 30 years, , sadly just a one man show

 

[lismore]

Since many of you have seen the corruption of the modern day system, I was curious about something. Have any of you ever confronted leadership with what you've been shown? Or did you mostly just leave quietly?

I slipped out of AOG after eight years to avoid ugly repercussions to myself (had seen them with other members that had left), sent a thank you letter to the retired pastor though, good man.

 

[1watchman]

Well one does have to keep in mind,
1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
3 Honour widows that are widows indeed.
Verse 17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Jeremiah 23:1-2 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord. 2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.

God Sees and Knows even the Hearts
If one is led to talk, then do so ...within the heart of Love Only and Always.

This is true and shown as ministry for a scriptural (Bible-only) fellowship, but does not work well in a sect with a well-entrenched hierarchy system, with traditions of creeds and rituals, etc.; which does not allow the priesthood of saints (1 Pet. 2).

 

[My Brother's Keeper2]

When I have left churches, I have let people know why only when they ask. I've found that, in both traditional and house churches, leadership do not care if you leave if you don't have deep pockets. They will bend over backwards, though, to get former members with deep pockets back into their congregation even if those members refuse to repent of their sins. The leaders will also make concessions for such people if they have family members in the church with deep pockets and leadership fears losing those members.

I also agree with others here who pointed out that churches generally don't rightly use Jesus's and his apostles' instructions on church discipline. What usually happens when a member has ought against another member is the person supposedly giving offense is gossiped about and maligned. According to the scriptures, gossip is sin.

 

[Francis Drake]

Well one does have to keep in mind,
1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

The use of the word "elder" in 1Tim5v1 has absolutely nothing to do with positions of authority.
That fact is clearly demonstrated by the word elder being juxtaposed with young men, older women and young women.
In fact the words "elder women" in the Greek is the female variant of the male word.
1Tim5v1 is about Godly relationships not power positions, that's why it has young and old men, young and old women.
An elder is what it says, an older man. You cannot make anyone an elder until he is older!
That's also why its wrong to appoint young college grads into positions of power in the church just because they have some certificate of other.

People have built the church with a hierarchical structure that is derived from the systems of the earth rather than Christ.

 

[lismore]

People have built the church with a hierarchical structure that is derived from the systems of the earth rather than Christ.

As the Lord himself said, whoever among you wishes to be first must be servant to all. A Christian leader is one who loves and serves.

 

[Francis Drake]

As the Lord himself said, whoever among you wishes to be first must be servant to all. A Christian leader is one who loves and serves.

If Christian leaders "serve" or are "servants", why is it that church members have to ask them permission to contribute to a "service".

The role most Christian leaders take is that of ruler, not servant. They enjoy their command position and exercise it despite what Jesus said.

 

[lismore]

If Christian leaders "serve" or are "servants", why is it that church members have to ask them permission to contribute to a "service".

The role most Christian leaders take is that of ruler, not servant. They enjoy their command position and exercise it despite what Jesus said.

Hello Drake. Thank you for your reply. One could then ask the question, someone who disobeys the direct instructions of Jesus Christ and yet claims to be a disciple, how can this be? As the Lord said, if you love me you will keep my commands. God Bless

 

[ace of hearts]

Since many of you have seen the corruption of the modern day system, I was curious about something. Have any of you ever confronted leadership with what you've been shown? Or did you mostly just leave quietly?

Effectively I left after doing so. My Father actually pulled me out of the IC through employment. Being stubborn I tried very hard to return. Finally I'm totally free! GLORY!!!! I still haven't found a home church. Thinking I might try to start one.

 

[ace of hearts]

If you are referring to any church gathering, it might be a good thing to at least let someone know why you feel the need to leave. Maybe they can correct things you perceive to be wrong. You can see some ministry on this at the biblecounsel web site too. I find that site to be very sound in ministry and what God intends for His testimony in the world. Look up always and live for God.

Personally I see no reason to tell them. They won't listen. Yes they hear the words of your mouth or read a letter which apparently goes into the round file.