Confession in Orthodoxy

[AMM]

if a sin against a bishop or priest, he can ban you from communion until you finish a penance or whatever. not so simply between laity.

So Jesus words only apply to sins against members of the clergy?

 

[All4Christ]

if a sin against a bishop or priest, he can ban you from communion until you finish a penance or whatever. not so simply between laity.

Wouldn’t this also be if someone is unrepentent or is continuing in promoting a sin, heresy, etc.? I know of some cases where people were actively teaching against Orthodoxy, and they were prevented from partaking of the Eucharist until they stopped doing that and repented. The same has happened with some people who wouldn’t repent and continued to be in sin without the desire or intent to stop, albeit I don’t know of specific people in this area.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Wouldn’t this also be if someone is unrepentent or is continuing in promoting a sin, heresy, etc.? I know of some cases where people were actively teaching against Orthodoxy, and they were prevented from partaking of the Eucharist until they stopped doing that and repented.

yes, but in that case the clergy are brought in. I meant like if I mouthed off to a brother priest, he can ban me from his Chalice.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So Jesus words only apply to sins against members of the clergy?

no, but in this case He was speaking to His clergy (the Apostles).

 

[All4Christ]

yes, but in that case the clergy are brought in. I meant like if I mouthed off to a brother priest, he can ban me from his Chalice.

To clarify, what do you mean about “the clergy are brought in”?

 

[ArmyMatt]

To clarify, what do you mean about “the clergy are brought in”?

like Br Nathaniel, promoting racism. so, if it was just between the laity, nothing could be done. however, once one of the laity talk to their priest, he can be banned from the Chalice.

 

[All4Christ]

like Br Nathaniel, promoting racism. so, if it was just between the laity, nothing could be done. however, once one of the laity talk to their priest, he can be banned from the Chalice.

If the priest witnesses it regularly, but laity doesn’t discuss it with him, does that mean he can’t follow up on it? Isn’t the priest responsible for protecting the chalice?

 

[All4Christ]

For example, if a person is promoting abortion to other laity on a regular basis, and perhaps that person was convincing to others, and the priest witnesses it in fellowship hour regularly, I would think that it was something he would follow up on rather than letting his flock be led astray by it.

Same goes for partaking of the chalice unworthily. Or if he sees someone living with a person outside of wedlock and they are not repentant of it, that would be a concern.

Or if a person partakes of the Eucharist outside the church, and the priest finds out about it, that is something that excommunicates a person...so I have been told that partaking outside the Church would ban them from the chalice.

Do you consider that to be inaccurate?

 

[AMM]

no, but in this case He was speaking to His clergy (the Apostles).

I'm still not sure I understand. In the short form of confession in the little red prayer book, the priest says "I have not power on earth to forgive sins, but God alone; yet through that divinely spoken word which came to the Apostles after the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, saying: Whosoever sins ye remit, they are remitted, and whosoever sins we retain, they are retained, we too are emboldened to say: Whatsoever thou hast said to my most humble self, and whatsoever thou hast not succeeded in saying, either through ignorance, or through forgetfulness, whatever it may be: God forgive thee in this present world, and in that which is to come"

It sounds a lot like it's saying, the priest as a person does not have authority to forgive sins, but by the words of Christ, as a priest he is able to forgive the sins, delivering God's forgiveness through the priest.

And the Western Rite form of confession has this prayer: "The almighty and merciful Lord grant unto thee pardon, absolution, and remission of thy sins. Amen. Our Lord Jesus Christ absolve thee; and I by his authority absolve thee from every bond of excommunication and interdict, so far as I have power, and thou hast need. Furthermore I absolve thee from thy sins, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.Amen. Our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly
repent and believe in him, of his great mercy forgive thee thine offences; And by his authority committed to me, I absolve thee from all thy sins; in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of theHolyGhost. Amen"

 

[ArmyMatt]

If the priest witnesses it regularly, but laity doesn’t discuss it with him, does that mean he can’t follow up on it? Isn’t the priest responsible for protecting the chalice?

no, I meant if ONLY the laity knew.

 

[All4Christ]

no, I meant if ONLY the laity knew.

Ah ok; thanks I misunderstood and thought you meant that people could be prevented from the chalice only the laity told the priest. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm still not sure I understand. In the short form of confession in the little red prayer book, the priest says "I have not power on earth to forgive sins, but God alone; yet through that divinely spoken word which came to the Apostles after the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, saying: Whosoever sins ye remit, they are remitted, and whosoever sins we retain, they are retained, we too are emboldened to say: Whatsoever thou hast said to my most humble self, and whatsoever thou hast not succeeded in saying, either through ignorance, or through forgetfulness, whatever it may be: God forgive thee in this present world, and in that which is to come"

It sounds a lot like it's saying, the priest as a person does not have authority to forgive sins, but by the words of Christ, as a priest he is able to forgive the sins, delivering God's forgiveness through the priest.

And the Western Rite form of confession has this prayer: "The almighty and merciful Lord grant unto thee pardon, absolution, and remission of thy sins. Amen. Our Lord Jesus Christ absolve thee; and I by his authority absolve thee from every bond of excommunication and interdict, so far as I have power, and thou hast need. Furthermore I absolve thee from thy sins, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.Amen. Our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly
repent and believe in him, of his great mercy forgive thee thine offences; And by his authority committed to me, I absolve thee from all thy sins; in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of theHolyGhost. Amen"

yes, but note the difference between the two prayers. the red on the action is from God, the Western one is from the priest (I absolve thee).

 

[All4Christ]

no, I meant if ONLY the laity knew.

I guess this would also be a case where laity would follow the pattern laid out by Christ here when speaking to the apostles: Matthew 18: 15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. 18 Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I guess this would also be a case where laity would follow the pattern laid out by Christ here when speaking to the apostles: Matthew 18: 15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. 18 Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

sure, I was just giving the answer before it goes to the clergy or if they didn't know. you are absolutely correct on what to do.

 

[AMM]

yes, but note the difference between the two prayers. the red on the action is from God, the Western one is from the priest (I absolve thee).

I did notice that; but isn't the western rite (including the absolution prayers) still fully Orthodox?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I did notice that; but isn't the western rite (including the absolution prayers) still fully Orthodox?

yes, but it's also a more modern phenomenon, so some theological anomalies might be there before corrections are made.

 

[~Anastasia~]

no, I meant if ONLY the laity knew.

Oh that clears it up. I was confused thinking you meant something else.

I know now of a few cases where our priest has talked to people and the result is their not receiving the Eucharist. Though the context is very much to protect them - such as failing to discern the Body - rather than intending it as a punishment of any kind.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Admittedly I’m not the best at following my own advice

Haha - sometimes I don't like to offer suggestions, knowing I'm perhaps condemning myself by my own failures. I just try to keep it in mind. It can be humbling.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Oh that clears it up. I was confused thinking you meant something else.

I know now of a few cases where our priest has talked to people and the result is their not receiving the Eucharist. Though the context is very much to protect them - such as failing to discern the Body - rather than intending it as a punishment of any kind.

yep, that's why they can ban folks from communion. it's for their salvation, which is why clergy can discern to retain or not.

 

[~Anastasia~]

yep, that's why they can ban folks from communion. it's for their salvation, which is why clergy can discern to retain or not.

Thank God for the priests and their help.