Confessing Sin!

[Goatee]

Do you have to ask God? Or do you just have to 'tell the priest' and get absolution from him as well as a good penance like 3 hail Mary's and 4 Our Father's....like a good Catholic? That's all I was ever taught and did, when I was a good Catholic.

Then you were taught incorrectly.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

i didn't jab anything. smh... brother please have a nice day

BY saying that I’m using interpretations and not going off the word that’s a jab

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

may i ask the point you are making, what position are you holding to my brother?

Also the reason I posted the the born again stuff was just a response to your OP. You claimed that just confessing Jesus as savior is salvation I disagreed so I responded

 

[lettuce]

I was waiting for that one, lol, it's an old favorite with no validity whatsoever. Wonder why Jesus taught so much that would just go invalid after he died?

The prayer was only meant to be used for a very short time til he died?

Funny how Christ never mentioned that about any of the things some claim invalid for the same reason. Also funny how he would teach things that are unusable, and never mention they wiould be not only useless shortly, but they shouldn't be used at all or we would be considered bad. How confusing this is, but wait, God doesn't deal in confusion like people do, however the Master of Confusion will say anything he possibly can to get us to not follow Gods word, and he's right on top of that here towards the end.

Why indeed and it's not by me. Nothing Jesus said is invalid but one must keep reading to understand what Jesus is saying.

In Luke 11, when the Lord's prayer is over, what does Jesus say? Luke 11:5-13.

Does God give you death when you are looking for life? Luke 11:12, 2 Corinthians 3:6

Does God give you law when you need grace? Matthew 7:9, Romans 11:6.

If you beg and asks for forgiveness for every sin and for every wrong that is perceived or imagined to be sin (the only sin is unbelief), are you treating God as a friend or a stranger? Proverbs 18:24, James 2:23.

Ask, seek, knock is not kneel, cry, beg. Luke 11:9-10

 

[Kenny'sID]

Why indeed and it's not by me. Nothing Jesus said is invalid but one must keep reading to understand what Jesus is saying.

In Luke 11, when the Lord's prayer is over, what does Jesus say? Luke 11:5-13.

Does God give you death when you are looking for life? Luke 11:12, 2 Corinthians 3:6

Does God give you law when you need grace? Matthew 7:9, Romans 11:6.

If you beg and asks for forgiveness for every sin and for every wrong that is perceived or imagined to be sin (the only sin is unbelief), are you treating God as a friend or a stranger? Proverbs 18:24, James 2:23.

Ask, seek, knock is not kneel, cry, beg. Luke 11:9-10

You never really say anything there accept nothing Jesus said is invalid...meaning we do need to ask forgiveness.

If you have other points to make, you absolutely did not make them, entirely too vague.

Two point blank questions and please don't evade these too.

What in those scriptures say we should not ask for forgiveness as Jesus sad to do? And as more than indicated, where do they state we actually do wrong by asking for forgiveness? If it's there, I'm not seeing it.

It appears you are somewhere in the neighborhood of OSAS, and if true, and I do say if...evasion and vagueness is a quality I see all to often in that area. There's a reason for that, but hoping you can give us something solid.

 

[Strong in Him]

If you beg and asks for forgiveness for every sin and for every wrong that is perceived or imagined to be sin (the only sin is unbelief), are you treating God as a friend or a stranger? Proverbs 18:24, James 2:23.

Ask, seek, knock is not kneel, cry, beg. Luke 11:9-10

There is a BIG difference between saying, "Lord, I let you down again; I admit I did wrong and I'm sorry. Please forgive me and make me clean again so I can serve you".
And saying, "Lord, I grovel at your feet; PLEASE forgive this wretched worm who deserves nothing from you. Please, please, please I beg you, try and forgive me ........."

We are told to confess our sin to God so that he can forgive us and make us clean. The second example is not wrong, though a bit over the top.
What IS wrong is to sin against God and just casually say, "oh, yeah you've already forgiven me for that haven't you?" In other words, "God HAS forgiven all the sins I will ever commit, so it doesn't matter if I commit them, or how I live."

As I said, that was the problem in the Corinthian church; their attitude was, Jesus has set us free, so we can do what we like. They couldn't, and neither can we.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If you beg and asks for forgiveness for every sin and for every wrong that is perceived or imagined to be sin (the only sin is unbelief), are you treating God as a friend or a stranger? Proverbs 18:24, James 2:23.

I would like to comment on more what you are doing there than anything else.

Who here ever said they had to beg? If the sin is bad enough and you feel in your heart you need to then absolutely go for it, but other wise, you are making that up? why?

Every perceived sin? who is saying that? Is there a part of the simple/unconfusing comment from Christ "Forgive us our trespasses" that you don't understand? Why do you try to confuse that with inaccurate/made up comments? I'll tell you why in a sec.

The only sin is unbelief? what am I supposed top say when someone pretty well says if you believe, you have no sin. Of course you have sin, we do it every day and some of us actually as forgiveness for it regularly. How does the verse go? If we say we have no sin, we are a liar, and the truth is not in us?

Are you actually saying if we abide by what Christ flat out told us to do, we are a stranger to God? No further comment.

I may later try to get to the point of exactly what I think you are doing there but since I have a terrible time sorting out what the site calls flaming and just debating, so not at the moment. As I recall It's actually impossible to tell, so If I don't get into it, hope some of you can see the big picture there.

 

[Hillsage]

ὰν δήσῃς ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἔσται δεδεμένον ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ ὃ ἐὰν λύσῃς ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἔσται λελυμένον ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς

The verb ἔσται is future tense, "will be".

kai ho ean deses tes ges estai dedemenon en tois ouranois
and whatever having been bound on the earth shall be bound in the heavens

The verb δήσῃς is in the aorist, indicating an undefined past tense; while ἔσται is firmly in the future tense. The interesting case is δεδεμένον which in the middle-passive voice, "I comb my hair every morning", "We are getting a new car".

The NAS renders ἔσται δεδεμένον as "shall have been bound", the implication here is that whatever having been bound on earth shall have also been bound in heaven. There is still a vital shall here indicating a causal connection, but it is likely more than that.

If anything, having looked at this passage more deeply only seems to emphasize more strongly the point here, and has given me more to think about--but more along the lines that in the binding/loosening on earth makes it already true in heaven. Indeed, when the pastor speaks in persona Christi the words of absolution it is the very life-giving word of God that our sins are truly forgiven in Christ, for indeed all sins are forgiven in and by the death and resurrection of Christ our God.

-CryptoLutheran

You've parsed it, as many have, I agree. But why do you think Dr. Young parsed it very differently?

YLT Mat 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'

And as I mentioned earlier Young's parsing lines up in scriptural consistency with Matt 6, a point you didn't address, but I'm hoping you will.

YLT MAT 6:10 'Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth.

It is simply obvious that the KJV as well as in many other bible versions there is obvious contradiction, would you not agree?

KJV MAT 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

MAT 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

In checking my Greek Interlinear book, they have the same rendering in the literal Greek as Young's translation/interpretation. But they have the "having been bound" and "having been loosed" both italicized in the 'literal' translation. And then in the KJV and NIV versions on the opposite page of the Greek Interlinear, they also have a footnote on verse 19 in the NIV version which says that the word "be"...as in "will be bound in heaven" is also interpteted as 'have been'. Which again agrees with Young's translation. So I'm still feeling pretty secure in my take which keeps scripture consistent.

Have you any explanation as to why the more 'favored interpretation' which you like (along with most) is inconsistent within scripture concerning this 'point of origin' for authority and power?

 

[Hillsage]

Then you were taught incorrectly.

Well you're certainly entitled to 'your opinion'....now back it up. Just maybe it YOU that was "taught incorrectly". And since you're still a Catholic, it's probably best for US if you defend your POV with more than " you say, I say". That makes sense to me anyway.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You've parsed it, as many have, I agree. But why do you think Dr. Young parsed it very differently?

YLT Mat 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'

And as I mentioned earlier Young's parsing lines up in scriptural consistency with Matt 6, a point you didn't address, but I'm hoping you will.

YLT MAT 6:10 'Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth.

It is simply obvious that the KJV as well as in many other bible versions there is obvious contradiction, would you not agree?

KJV MAT 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

MAT 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

In checking my Greek Interlinear book, they have the same rendering in the literal Greek as Young's translation/interpretation. But they have the "having been bound" and "having been loosed" both italicized in the 'literal' translation. And then in the KJV and NIV versions on the opposite page of the Greek Interlinear, they also have a footnote on verse 19 in the NIV version which says that the word "be"...as in "will be bound in heaven" is also interpteted as 'have been'. Which again agrees with Young's translation. So I'm still feeling pretty secure in my take which keeps scripture consistent.

Have you any explanation as to why the more 'favored interpretation' which you like (along with most) is inconsistent within scripture concerning this 'point of origin' for authority and power?

Hill, I should, but don't actually recall for sure, are you on the side of universalism? or something close? If not, I guess I should just ask...what?

 

[Hillsage]

Hill, I should, but don't actually recall for sure, are you on the side of universalism? or something close? If not, I guess I should just ask...what?

Just "universalism"....I'd say, NO! Christian Universalism...I'd sayYes! But I prefer...Ultimate Reconciliation.

Having settled 'that' 1st. question, your "....what?" question makes no more sense to me, in this post or thread, than the one asking about universalism. And given my past endeavors to dialogue with you, I might not have answered your "....what?", even if I did understand what it is in reference to. Sorry.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Just "universalism"....I'd say, NO! Christian Universalism...I'd sayYes! But I prefer...Ultimate Reconciliation.

Kind of thought it was something like that, that's why I finally just asked, and the "what" was me asking what exactly it was, but yes, badly worded... 'tis I who am sorry.

And don't worry, I won't force to to defend yourself, been there already, I honestly just forgot what that stuff was, and I did want to make note of exactly where you were coming from when I saw the "Charismatic" in your profile so there is no confusion here. And no, please don't explain that.

Carry on, and I'll do my best to hold my peace.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You've parsed it, as many have, I agree. But why do you think Dr. Young parsed it very differently?

YLT Mat 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'

And as I mentioned earlier Young's parsing lines up in scriptural consistency with Matt 6, a point you didn't address, but I'm hoping you will.

YLT MAT 6:10 'Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth.

It is simply obvious that the KJV as well as in many other bible versions there is obvious contradiction, would you not agree?

KJV MAT 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

MAT 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

In checking my Greek Interlinear book, they have the same rendering in the literal Greek as Young's translation/interpretation. But they have the "having been bound" and "having been loosed" both italicized in the 'literal' translation. And then in the KJV and NIV versions on the opposite page of the Greek Interlinear, they also have a footnote on verse 19 in the NIV version which says that the word "be"...as in "will be bound in heaven" is also interpteted as 'have been'. Which again agrees with Young's translation. So I'm still feeling pretty secure in my take which keeps scripture consistent.

Have you any explanation as to why the more 'favored interpretation' which you like (along with most) is inconsistent within scripture concerning this 'point of origin' for authority and power?

The YLT doesn't suggest anything any different than what I have, note that he translates it "shall be having been bound".

Also I don't see a contradiction here, the authority is Christ's, and all authority is His in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Pitcharan]

.... After you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and you like 2 Cor 5:17 states "Become new" do you still confess your sins to God seeking forgiveness? I know the truth, I just wanna see what others have to say on the topic....

"Becoming new" is a process and to "stop sinning" is a long walk to freedom. I understood this best in Luke's Gospel and quote the below content from my recent article ( www.academia.edu/33793552/A_REFLECTION_ON_LUKES_GOSPEL ):

Our Lord taught with radiantly divine authority and revealed vital truths about sin and forgiveness with brilliant clarity. Luke's account of these teachings is by far the best and most exhaustive. The following examples prove the point rather simply:

He said to the disciples: “It is impossible that no occasions of stumbling should come, but woe to him through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, rather than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble. Be careful. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him. (Lk 17:1-3ab). Our Lord is not suggesting an apt punishment for those who lead the innocent to sinning, but forewarning us of the imminent end of such sinners which is worse than being drowned with a millstone round the neck. To put it plain and simple, becoming an extended arm of Satan is the worst degree of degeneration and a fatal sin that maims the ability to undergo a change of heart and repent. The purpose of punishment is correction and NOT penal compensation and timely correction alone can prevent the futile stage.

If he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in the day, and seven times returns, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” (Lk 17:3c-4). Neither punishing nor forgiving can end a sinful habit in an instant. To stop sinning, is a long walk to freedom and it is pointless to put a cap on the number chances to be given.

 

[shaheem white]

"Becoming new" is a process and to "stop sinning" is a long walk to freedom. I understood this best in Luke's Gospel and quote the below content from my recent article ( www.academia.edu/33793552/A_REFLECTION_ON_LUKES_GOSPEL ):

thanks for your input... God Bless you

 

[Hillsage]

The YLT doesn't suggest anything any different than what I have, note that he translates it "shall be having been bound".

You don't see the difference between the 'future tense' "shall be" followed by the 'past tense' "having been bound"? That surprises me. I clearly perceive a flow of God's authority from heaven to earth...in that order. Not only in that verse, but in the Lord's prayer.

YLT Mat 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be (in the future) having been bound (in the past) in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be (future) (past) in the heavens.'

Also I don't see a contradiction here, the authority is Christ's, and all authority is His in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18)

Again I'm surprised, it isn't about the source of the authority (Christ). It is about the receiving of authority and when/where it comes from. Maybe it's more noticeable to me than you because, as was pointed out earlier, I'm of the Charismatic persuasion. A persuasion which gets a lot of flak about 'name it and claim it', 'blab it and nab it'. And I am of the opinion that it is often, deserved flak. Those practices are based upon verses like the following;

JOH 14:13 Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; 14 if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

MAT 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore...

They then walk away with the belief that if I can physically name the name/moniker 'JESUS', that the cosmos must line up with them and their 'declared word'...a "declared word" which is no different IMO than that 'declared word' you spoke of earlier concerning confessional absolution of sin from a priest/pastor.

But I look at those verses in the light of my failed experiences concerning 'name it claim it' 'blab and nab'. Looking at scripture differently now, I realize that if I haven't heard a RHEMA/spoken word FROM HEAVEN first, giving me the AUTHORITY to a 'subsequently' speak a 'declared word', then what happens just may not be 'of God'...but man. Just like scripture confirms in Matt with those who say;

MAT 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

As you are well aware, many use these verses to point a judgmental finger at the 'charismatic movers' to say we're not even saved because Jesus doesn't know us. We're also accused of therefore doing the work of the devil. I am of the hope that you are aware enough to realize that when Jesus says "I never knew you" there is the possibility of more depth to those words than the shallow minded may be thinking. We all should know that "Jesus KNOWS ALL MEN'. But He does not commit 'Himself or His authority' to them, just because they know how to 'say' his name.

JOH 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

We are off topic, and this thread seems to be cooling down, so no response from you would probably be 'just as well'.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I am of the belief that believers should walk by faith and claim the victories that come with salvation. Therefore it seems to me that since all our sins are forgiven because of the sacrifice that Jesus paid on the cross we should do as scripture say, 1John1:9 if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, there I would say to confess the known sin and thank Him for paying your sin debt, that way you walk by faith trusting that He did as He said He would do, never to remember them no more. Look at David's sin when he was confronted by Nathan, you can read the whole context in 2 Sam 12, but I will show this v13-14 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.” The principle is stated in Lev 5:5 ‘And it shall be, when he is guilty in any of these matters, that he shall confess that he has sinned in that thing; 6 and he shall bring his trespass offering to the Lord for his sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats as a sin offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin. Just look up the word confess in a concordance and one can see this is carried out throughout the scriptures. We walk by faith and not by sight, I just believe that trusting Him by faith is a practice for building up in the faith. The model prayer says forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others their trespasses, seem to me that we are to forgive others like He forgave us and the incident in Matt 18: 21-35 shows that. But I do believe, each person must do as they believe, whatever is not done of faith is sin, says James. But that belief must align itself with the word of God, where there is no obedience and repentance, I side with the word word of God, especially with Proverbs 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

Yes, and a purged conscience counts for a great deal; Hebrews 9.14 is a wonderful verse about the purging of the conscience by the blood of Christ Who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God. A truly purged conscience can truly enjoy the peace of John 14.27 and Romans 5.1.