Confederate Flag

[NiemandheißtBoshaftigkeit]

I agree whole-heartedly. The confederate flag is not a symbol a racism. I also believe the same about the swastika but that is another matter but with the same basic ideas behind it.

 

[ozanaki tori]

The swastika was a *******ised symbol, not a symbol of hatred. In fact, it was an oriental symbol of buddhism/hindu..from what I remember.

 

[praying]

I think you are missing the point, these symbols no matter what their orgin have been twisted and are now associated with racism.

 

[praying]

I partially agree, and partially I disagree.

Africans were enslaved for many reasons. Skin colour was not one of them, nor nationality. Just as any sittuation where one nation is superior in weaponary and strategy and "civilised" (though i scoff at the term) and they meet up with primative natives, the european peoples took control. However, not all european nations were white. Furthermore, there is racism among white peoples against other white peoples, and especially back in those days.

Slavery was wrong, but it would have gone away sooner or later (sooner, probably).
There were many problems at stake besides slavery, that have not gone away nor will they ever, now.

Non european was the motivator which pretty much translates to people of color.

What euorpeans are not caucasian?


"it would have gone away sooner or later"

well sooner was definitely better but like I point out I have my doubts due to the ijustices inflicted long after slavery's demise

 

[praying]

Very touchey subject, considering a lot of people have a very, very misunderstanding view of the Civil War and the Confederate flag.

I have a necklace I wear sometimes, but once there was an african-american man at the post office and I could tell it bothered him, so I stopped wearing it for now.

I don't think it should be as much of a southern thing as people are making it. The War was about state rights, not just southern rights.

For African Americans the war was/is all about not being a slave. It did not matter about the politics, because it was not Lincoln's intention to free the slaves. If he could have preserved the Union without war or freeing the slaves he would have. You know why the politics were irrelevant, because we could not vote and were only considered 3/5's of a person.

 

[ozanaki tori]

Well, I'd hardly call spaniards "white."
And the Chinese were enslaved as well. Maybe in a more subtle way, but think about that everytime you hear a train go by your freedom.

If you can rule out a confederate's reasons for fighting by saying the war was about not being a slave for an african-american, then one can easily rule out african-american opinion by saying 'the war was about state rights, so anything else doesn't matter.'

 

[ozanaki tori]

Also, it's really awesome (seriously) to see an african-american admit that Lincoln wasn't as honest as he'd have some believe.

 

[praying]

Well, I'd hardly call spaniards "white."
And the Chinese were enslaved as well. Maybe in a more subtle way, but think about that everytime you hear a train go by your freedom.

If you can rule out a confederate's reasons for fighting by saying the war was about not being a slave for an african-american, then one can easily rule out african-american opinion by saying 'the war was about state rights, so anything else doesn't matter.'

The chinese were not slaves, treatly unjustly yes never owned or considered chattel

I am ruling anything out for white confederates.

 

[praying]

Also, it's really awesome (seriously) to see an african-american admit that Lincoln wasn't as honest as he'd have some believe.

Anyone who done any research on Lincoln and slavery knows this.

 

[KyleSmith7117]

You keep saying that slavery was the reason for the civil war.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery." - Lincoln

Lincoln didnt want the states to split because government would lose money.
"I can't let the south go. Who would pay for the government?" - Lincoln

Here's A Article: The Civil War Wasn't about Slavery

Dr. Walter Williams

geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/3158/south.htm


Darn Posting Links Limits...

 

[ozanaki tori]

So..the black confederates were fine?

Also, do your own history lesson on how the Chinese were treated - and with what racism. The only reasons they weren't treated as the African slaves were treated is because that form of slavery was abolished.

The only reason the north did not have "slaves" is because they did not need them. Not because the Federal states were Righteous.

 

[KyleSmith7117]

I did some many research for fews days now. Here are some history facts:

The USA are also slaved owers in the past since the Revolutionary war. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years. The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money.

The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

Thats my updated info and comments...

 

[praying]

I did some many research for fews days now. Here are some history facts:

The USA are also slaved owers in the past since the Revolutionary war. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years. The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money.

The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

Thats my updated info and comments...

Oh I agree with you 100% the North was not innocent of the sin of slavery, they just preferred to profit from it rather than actually own slaves.

See the problem arises from the march for equality by African Americans when so many southerners held the flag up as a symbol of the south and all that they did not want changed.

 

[praying]

So..the black confederates were fine?

Also, do your own history lesson on how the Chinese were treated - and with what racism. The only reasons they weren't treated as the African slaves were treated is because that form of slavery was abolished.

The only reason the north did not have "slaves" is because they did not need them. Not because the Federal states were Righteous.

It is not aboiut the confederates, it is about slavery.

The Chinese weere here before the end of slavery building the railroad.

 

[ozanaki tori]

It's the Confederate flag. Not the Slave-Driver flag.

The Chinese were slaves, through manipulation rather than being bought and sold. If you deny that, then you deny a culture their history and sympathy they deserve.

Basically, the Civil War was about so many things outside of slavery that are worth fighting for, it is wrong to fault a nation because they owned slaves.

I am extremely saddened by how the confederate flag has been treated by southerners. I am from Alabama, but I detest rednecks and "southern" things that all southerners "must" be. I am disgusted by how the Confederate flag has been *******ised. However, I would rather reclaim the confederate flag as something anti-federal instead of giving it over to the racists without a fight.

In this modern world, it is your state rights that were being protected. The rights of African-Americans would have come around, whether Abe used it as a tactic or not.

 

[engiin]

The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance.

Uh..I think the problem here is that the Confederate Flag represented many things "one of which" was the slavery of the south which they wanted to keep. So, it's true that it did not specifically represent Slavery alone. But, it's just like Hitler and the Nazi Hooked Cross. The Nazi cross represented lots of things that had nothing to do with Jews. But, one of the things the Nazis did was exterminate Jews. So, the Cross became a "reminder" to them, that had the Nazis won, Jews would still be exterminated today. Similarly, had the Confederates won, there would still be black slaves today. That, I think is the point. I don't think anybody lacks education on the flag. I think some people lack understanding how much the symbol affects the lives of those who were "hurt".

 

[SUNDAE]

Uh..I think the problem here is that the Confederate Flag represented many things "one of which" was the slavery of the south which they wanted to keep. So, it's true that it did not specifically represent Slavery alone. But, it's just like Hitler and the Nazi Hooked Cross. The Nazi cross represented lots of things that had nothing to do with Jews. But, one of the things the Nazis did was exterminate Jews. So, the Cross became a "reminder" to them, that had the Nazis won, Jews would still be exterminated today. Similarly, had the Confederates won, there would still be black slaves today. That, I think is the point. I don't think anybody lacks education on the flag. I think some people lack understanding how much the symbol affects the lives of those who were "hurt".

Thank you, engiin! This is the problem in a nutshell!!!

 

[praying]

It's the Confederate flag. Not the Slave-Driver flag.

The Chinese were slaves, through manipulation rather than being bought and sold. If you deny that, then you deny a culture their history and sympathy they deserve.

Basically, the Civil War was about so many things outside of slavery that are worth fighting for, it is wrong to fault a nation because they owned slaves.

I am extremely saddened by how the confederate flag has been treated by southerners. I am from Alabama, but I detest rednecks and "southern" things that all southerners "must" be. I am disgusted by how the Confederate flag has been *******ised. However, I would rather reclaim the confederate flag as something anti-federal instead of giving it over to the racists without a fight.

In this modern world, it is your state rights that were being protected. The rights of African-Americans would have come around, whether Abe used it as a tactic or not.

It is wrong to fault a nation for wonign slaves, maybe you did not mean that as it sounds. Why is it not wrong?

You sound awfully cavalier about "the rights of Africans Amercians" coming around. Lest we remind how long it really took for those rights to "come around".

I understand your trying to reclaim what the flag stands for for you, however you can not ignore all of the history that evolved around that symbol. The reality is most people's idea of the flag comes from the civil rights movement when it was waved at African Americans fighting for their rights while being fire hosed and sttacked by dogs and called [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. These are the images in peoples minds, not the confederate soldier fighting for states rights.

 

[KyleSmith7117]

The some southerns do misused the Confederate flag during protests and civil rights issues. Saddly, its makes a bad reputation for the flag and makes others think that the flag is racist. It sickens me, people misused the flag with hate instead heritage.I feel very badly for the ones believe its a racist symbol and not know what is its true meaning.If people knew more about the Confederate States, there would be more understanding.


Edit: Bold was on..

 

[Godzman]

you have the right to have a confederate flag, but it is over, the split is gone, the war is through and slavery is done.

In fact we should be careful to reverence any flag (country) above God as Christians