Conditional or Unconditional

[Terral]

[Continued from Post #40]

Those blinded by Denominationalism have invented a Gentile (abomination) ritual based upon sacrifices to Aphrodite (Greek) and Diana (Roman) the goddesses of love and fertility having NO Scriptural basis at all. Paul is addressing the BODY of Christ, saying,

“Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” Colossians 2:16-17.

The Lord’s Passover Supper is for Israel ONLY and those still bound under Mosaic Law like Jesus Christ and all His Jewish Disciples keeping Mosaic Law almost 2000 years ago. The BODY of Christ is to walk by faith and NOT by sight (2Cor. 5:7) keeping our eyes fixed on the things above where Christ is at the right hand of God (Col. 3:1-3). Paul is teaching these Kingdom Bride members about observing the Lord’s Passover Supper, because God sent him to gather members to the “BODY of Christ” AND to gather members to the Prophetic Kingdom BRIDE found scattered among the membership of this particular Corinthian Congregation. This is the same reason you see commands concerning the gifts of prophecy, knowledge and tongues within chapters 11-14 of this same Corinthian Epistle, because those ‘sign gifts’ were given to those coming to God via the “Gospel of the Kingdom” like we see saved in Acts 2 (Pentecost), Acts 8 (Samarians and Eunuch), Acts 10 (Cornelius and his family), Acts 19 (disciples) where the Kingdom Disciple is “preaching the kingdom” (Acts 20:25) gathering disciples to the Prophetic Kingdom BRIDE. Those Kingdom Disciples are merely “betrothed” to the Lord and MUST wait until the “Marriage Supper Of The Lamb” (Rev. 19:5-10) to become joined to Him via the “Covenant of Marriage.” However (this is the mystery part), the members of “Christ’s BODY” obeying Paul’s Gospel have been ‘crucified with Christ’ (Gal. 2:20), to be raised with Christ (Col. 3:1-3) to be seated in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus to be “baptized into Christ” (Gal. 3:27) with lives hidden . . . with . . . Christ . . . “IN” . . . GOD. Colossians 3:3. We have no need of any Marriage Supper, “because we are the members of His body” (Eph. 5:30) by obeying Paul’s “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message . . . even now. :0)

All the members of Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom BRIDE will come to stand before the Lord to see if they pass the test (diagram) and if their garment is made clean (see Rev. 19:5-10 again). Every Kingdom Bride member is justified by WORKS and not by faith alone (James 2:20-24) and some of these Bride members will be washing and washing and washing their heavenly garments for MANY ages to come. However, each time they approach the Lord at the END of every age, they will look up and into “His Body” where ‘we’ have already been seated IN Christ Jesus to become exceedingly JEALOUS (Deut. 32:21, Rom. 10:19, etc.), because EVERYTHING they seek to obtain in the Heavenly Realm was given to us for free. :0)

Do you really want to join Peter, John and James on the ‘sea of glass’ (Rev. 4:6, 15:2 = diagram) to stand ‘before the throne’ (Rev. 7:15) as a Kingdom of Priests (Rev. 1:6, 5:10)?? OR, would you rather be found “IN Christ Jesus” and “IN the Lamb” in the “Center Of The Throne” (Rev. 7:17) judging the world and the angels (1Cor. 6:2-3)?? Find your place among the members of “Christ’s BODY” and perhaps you will grow to realize the “New Covenant” is for the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8), when Elijah comes to restore all things, because nothing on earth or in heaven can separate us from Christ, or bring us (BODY of Christ) any closer to God or His Living Word.

Victorious1 >> It is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that our sins are remitted and we are saved, born again of God's Spirit.

You are confusing the ‘provisions’ of the New Covenant with the redemption (Rom. 3:24) and forgiveness (Eph. 1:7) we obtain by obeying THE GOSPEL. None of the members of Christ’s body today are ‘born again,’ as you will find this phrase no where in the Pauline Epistles. You are taking this phrase from Christ’s conversation with Nicodemus WAY back in John 3 (same chapter teaching the "Bride") and LONG before He died for anyone. Kingdom Disciples (like Peter, John and James) are born in water (John’s Baptism) in preparation of THEN receiving the baptism in the name of the Son (Lord Jesus) to THEN receive the baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19 like in Acts 8 and 19) where THEY are ‘born from above’ in the process of being “betrothed” to the Lord. The members of Christ’s BODY are created IN Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:10) a brand “new creature” (2Cor. 5:16-17) part of a totally “New Creation” (Gal. 6:15). Anything created NEW is not ‘born again’ at all. :0) The best place to begin sorting out the differences between these ‘two administrations’ (Bride AND Body) is my “Two Gospels” and “Two Churches” threads where these things are presented in two separate doctrinal outlines. Please ask any questions that come to mind and I will address your concerns on the appropriate thread.

Victorious1 >> Every born-again Christian (Jew or Gentile) make up the Body of Christ.

No sir. You are mixing Kingdom Doctrine for the Kingdom BRIDE with Grace Doctrine for the Mystery BODY of Christ without currently knowing the difference.

Victorious1 >> So how can you say that the New Covenant has nothing to do with the Body of Christ?

Very simple: The “BODY of Christ” has “citizenship IN HEAVEN” (Phil. 3:20) and is NOT representative of the Houses of Israel and Judah to whom the “New Covenant” (Hebrews 8:8) will be made.

Victorious1 >> The New Covenant actually came into effect on the day of Pentecost with the receiving of God's gift of holy spirit by Jews and Gentiles which is still occurring in this Age of Grace.

No sir. The Jews observing the Feast Day of Pentecost would be made unclean by coming in contact with Gentiles, which would disqualify them from actively participating in keeping this provision of Mosaic Law. Those accusing Christ refused to enter the Praetorium “so that they would not be defiled, but might eat the Passover” (John 18:28) for the very same reason. Remember that even Peter, being sent to Cornelius, pointed out that, "You yourselves know how UNLAWFUL it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him” (Acts 10:28), and you have already been shown that he was addressing Israel ONLY on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14, 22, 36).

I encourage you to find us just one example of Peter going to Gentiles, after this Cornelius account, because Paul clearly states that Peter, John and James are still going “to the Circumcised” (Gal. 2:9) in his letter dated around 57 AD. Since Peter is last mentioned in Acts 15:14 (middle of Acts) as “Simeon,” then you will not have any luck locating that kind of information in Luke’s sequel that focuses exclusively upon the Apostle Paul from that time forward. Paul characterizes himself as the “Apostle Of Gentiles” (Romans 11:13) speaking directly to “you Gentiles” (Eph. 3:1-3) in the first person. However, how many times do Hebrews Peter, John, James and Jude address the Gentiles in the first person in all the Kingdom Epistles bearing their collective names? ZERO. :0) There is no such thing as any “Age of Grace” ever mentioned in Scripture, but this is a Dispy invention with no basis in reality whatsoever. We have been living through the same “evil age” (Gal. 1:4) since this darkness fell in Genesis 1:2 AND shall continue to do so, until heaven and earth pass away (Rev. 20:11-15) making room for the New Creation of Revelation 21:1+.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Victorious1]

Hi Victorious1:We most certainly disagree....

Dear Terral

I disagree with your understanding of the New Covenant because I don't see it in the Word of God. I explained to you why it has everything to do with the Body of Christ. It appears your mind is already made up and I am not going to spend hours trying to show you otherwise.


If I may suggest, please go to every place in the Bible where it teaches about the New Covenant (Testament) and especially read the Gospel of John and God will show it to you as plain as day. Sometime we tend to study the scriptures with pre-conceived teachings and theologies that we don't read and hear what God has to say about Himself and His Word. We all have done this at one time or another, but we lose out because of it.

God bless you.

 

[kmolson]

Hi Victorious1,

I have spent a couple of hours or more today checking out all the Scriptures that Terral quoted in posts #40 and #41 and I could not find anything wrong with his conclusions, perhaps you could explain through Scripture how you understand it, so I could understand it too.

ken

 

[Victorious1]

Hi Victorious1,

I have spent a couple of hours or more today checking out all the Scriptures that Terral quoted in posts #40 and #41 and I could not find anything wrong with his conclusions, perhaps you could explain through Scripture how you understand it, so I could understand it too.

ken

That's all fine, ken, but it doesn't make either one of you correct, and I still disagree.

Perhpas you can study the Word of God and have God teach you what He knows about the New Covenant.

God bless you,
Victorious 1

 

[kmolson]

That's all fine, ken, but it doesn't make either one of you correct, and I still disagree.

Perhpas you can study the Word of God and have God teach you what He knows about the New Covenant.

God bless you,
Victorious 1

Hi Victorious1,

When I study the Word of God it tells me that God’s method is to send teachers (Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers and it also tells me that I should check it out with the scriptures. ( Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.)

ken

 

[Terral]

Hi Victorious1:

Victorious1 >> I disagree with your understanding of the New Covenant because I don't see it in the Word of God.

Please forgive, but saying “I disagree” is not an argument for anything. Your first attempt at making your “New Covenant has everything to do with the Body of Christ” (Post #37) case contains just two verses (Matt. 26:28, 1Cor. 11:25) and three sentences of opinion answered line by line in Post #40 and #41. In fact, you quoted more Scripture from me in Post #37 than appears in all your posts combined on this thread. Basing your “I disagree” conclusion upon what “I do not see” in the Word of God seems superfluous at best. The fact is that Victorious1 has no reply to my well-supported arguments from Post #40 and Post #41, but is willing to disagree anyway.

Victorious1 >> I explained to you why it has everything to do with the Body of Christ. It appears your mind is already made up and I am not going to spend hours trying to show you otherwise.

Yes. I have been debating these topics since long before anyone invented the internet and my mind is definitely made up. The truth of a few verses throws a monkey wrench into your theory:

“For finding fault with them, He says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a “New Covenant” with the House of Israel and Judah; not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and I did not care for them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the “House of Israel” after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.” Hebrews 8:8-10.

Would this be the “New Covenant” you are trying to create between the Lord God of the OT (Christ) and the BODY OF CHRIST (Eph. 4:12) with lives hidden with Christ IN GOD (Col. 3:3)?? The Hebrews writer is quoting Jeremiah 31:31-33 word for word, because NT Scripture is agreeing 100 percent with OT Scripture regarding the “New Covenant” to be established between the Lord God (Christ) and Israel of the flesh (Houses of Israel and Judah). Victorious1 is willing to simply “Replace” these components of OT “Prophecy” with our mystery church (Body of Christ) seen by NONE of the OT prophets at all, because of his misunderstandings over a few verses of Scripture quoted in Post #37. The errant nature of your conclusions is gathered by examination of your own statements that include:

Victorious1 (Post #37) >> The New Covenant actually came into effect on the day of Pentecost with the receiving of God's gift of holy spirit by Jews and Gentiles which is still occurring in this Age of Grace.

How many here see a problem with the “New Covenant” actually coming into effect on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) for Victorious1’s conclusions about the “BODY of Christ” to make a lick of sense? :0) The first problem is that Scripture points to the “New Covenant” coming into effect in Hebrews 8:8 IN THE FUTURE, which was written in about 68 AD that is still unfilled to this day. :0) If the New Covenant between the Lord God (Christ) and the House of Israel came into effect in Acts 2 (33 AD), then The Book Of Hebrews making that ‘prophecy’ from Jeremiah 31 is even more grandiose than my debating opponent’s conclusions based upon what he does not see. If the “New Covenant” was established between Christ and Israel back in Acts 2 (not), then this Hebrew’s “New Covenant” would be yet another, because of the truth of Israel’s “transgression” (Romans 11:7-11) having stumbled over Christ (Romans 9:30-32) resulting in their collective “blindness” (Romans 11:25). You had no reply to Peter addressing Israel ONLY (Acts 2:14, 22, 36), which disqualifies your “Gentiles” from even being in Jerusalem on this Holy Feast Day where the sons of Israel had to remain clean by avoiding contact with uncircumcised foreigners. And finally, there is no such thing as any “Age of Grace” found anywhere in Scripture.

Victorious1 >> If I may suggest, please go to every place in the Bible where it teaches about the New Covenant (Testament) and especially read the Gospel of John and God will show it to you as plain as day.

Please forgive again, but having read the NT hundreds of times, the chances of your conclusions being accurate are less than nil IMHO. The only place the “New Covenant” is mentioned specifically in the OT is Jeremiah 31:31 quoted in Hebrews 8:8. The only Four Gospel reference was made by Christ in Luke 22:20, quoted by Paul in 1Corinthians 11:25 in context of “when you meet together, it is NOT to eat the Lord’s Supper” (1Cor. 11:20), because “we” (Christ’s body = 1Cor. 12:27) do NOT represent the Houses of Israel and Judah very much under Mosaic Law. Both of these verses contain Christ’s command to His Jewish Disciples, saying, “This cup is the New Covenant in My blood; do THIS, as often as you drink, in remembrance of Me.” The ‘cup’ in Christ’s hand was the Seder Cup of the Lord’s Passover Supper drank by practicing Jews every year on Nisan 14 at twilight (Lev 23:5) in keeping with Mosaic Law. Paul is addressing THOSE UNDER THE LAW from Peter’s Kingdom “BRIDE” (Church #1) claiming to be “Of Cephas” (1Cor. 1:12), but even THEY (Kingdom Disciples) were NOT to eat the Lord’s Supper at every cotton picking meeting like Gentiles playing with Mosaic Law do by their Denominationalism in the world today.

Christ is fulfilling THE LAW at the Lord’s Passover Seder Supper, by showing these practicing Jews that the fruit of the vine is symbolic of “My blood” that is the ‘provision’ of the New Covenant to be established between Himself (the Lord God) and the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8), when the whole House of Israel is saved (Rom. 11:26) ‘AFTER THESE THINGS’ (Acts 15:16-18) of today. Even so, these Kingdom Jews saved via the “Gospel of the Kingdom,” when Elijah returns to restore all things, will “do THIS” (the Lord’s Seder Supper) just once every year in the spring at ‘their’ Passover. Instead of seeing just a cup of wine, THEY will recognize the significance of Christ’s shed blood as the ‘provision’ of the New Relationship THEY (House of Israel) have with the Lord God.

Victorious1 >> Sometime we tend to study the scriptures with pre-conceived teachings and theologies that we don't read and hear what God has to say about Himself and His Word. We all have done this at one time or another, but we lose out because of it.

We can agree that Victorious1 is taking a few verses of Scripture out of their true context in order to establish a “New Covenant” relationship between Christ (the Lord God of the OT) and the members of “His Body” Church (Col. 1:24), when the “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) did not even exist in Acts 2. God raised Paul up in Acts 9:15-16 and ‘after’ that point gave him our gospel (#2) “through a revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:11-12), which is how Paul became our father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel (1Cor. 4:15). The churches at Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossae, etc. did not exist in 33 AD on the Day of Pentecost, because Paul’s “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message was still “Hidden IN God” (Eph. 3:9) like every other component of “The Mystery” (Eph. 3:3). Paul is gathering members to the “Body of Christ” (that's us) through the “Gospel of the Grace of God” (Acts 20:24) AND members to the Kingdom “Bride” by “preaching the Kingdom” (Acts 20:25) parts of the “whole purpose of God” (Acts 20:27) for BOTH Administrations, but the “New Covenant” is made between the Lord God (Christ) and the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8) no matter how you want to skin this cat. :0)

You give yours and I will do the same and everyone here can judge us both. GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[berg]

Hi Terral,

There is a scripture verse that I find troublesome to my understanding of right division, and that is Romans 16:7, Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was. My understanding is that Paul was the first one in Christ.
This is going to be short because I am no typist.
I am really enjoying your postings Terral, keep up the good work.

Berg.

 

[Terral]

Hi Berg:

Thank you for writing.

Berg >> There is a scripture verse that I find troublesome to my understanding of right division, and that is:

Romans 16:7, Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

Berg >> My understanding is that Paul was the first one in Christ.

Thank you for raising this point that has caused many Dispy’s to stumble over the misunderstanding of a few key words. First of all, I am reading directly from the Greek and can assure you there is no “they were in Christ before I was” lingo in the original language. Let’s look at the NASB translation, then look at the original Greek, and the truth of what Paul is actually saying will begin to dawn on Berg:

“Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” Romans 16:7.

Paul is testifying that his kinsmen and fellow prisoners came to be IN Christ Jesus “before me,” or through his own work as the ‘evangelist.’ A literal reading of the Greek says,

Strong's Lexicon showing the Greek roots:

“. . . hos kai pro emou 'ginomai*' en Christos,” (Nelson’s Greek/English Interlinear) or “who also before me 'came to be*' in Christ.” Anyone ‘hearing’ and ‘believing’ Paul's "My Gospel" (#2) in Berg’s presence “before me came to be in Christ” through the ‘faith to faith’ (Rom. 1:16-17) transaction whereby they were ‘sealed in Him’ (Eph. 1:13-14) for the Day of Redemption (Eph. 4:30). The Apostle Paul makes the fact perfectly clear to Timothy that he was indeed the ‘first’ to be found “IN” Christ Jesus, by obeying our gospel, saying,

“It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am first [protos #4413]. Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the first [protos #4413], Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example [hupotuposis #5296 = a pattern] for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.” 1Timothy 1:15-16.

The Apostle Paul became our father “in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1Cor. 4:15), by becoming the ‘pattern’ that typifies every member of Christ’s body, on the road to Damascus back in Acts 9:15-16. Paul is a Jewish Pharisee (Phil. 3:5) symbolizing every Jew called to God through our Gospel AND he is a Roman citizen (Acts 16:37-38) typifying the Gentiles coming to God the very same way, even though previously he had persecuted Peter’s Kingdom Bride Church (Acts 8:1-2 = Church #1); just like many of us persecuted Christians ‘before’ our own conversion. Scholars have mistranslated ‘protos’ (first) into ‘chief’ and ‘foremost’ and a variety of terms, because they do not understand what it means to be “seated in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus”(Eph. 2:6 = diagram) through our ‘one baptism’ (Eph. 4:5) performed by the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 12:13).

While many of these other Romans were saved via the preaching of others, Andronicus and Junias came to be “IN Christ” while standing in Paul’s presence (before me).

In Christ Jesus too, :0)

Terral

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Every Kingdom Bride member is justified by WORKS and not by faith alone (James 2:20-24) and some of these Bride members will be washing and washing and washing their heavenly garments for MANY ages to come.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law {comes} the knowledge of sin.

Jews today cannot and will not be saved by works of the law. There is only one of salvation for all, through faith in Christ's atoning work on the cross. Israel's only hope is to turn to Christ (which it will during the tribulation) and recognize that He was the promised messiah.

Salvation is by faith alone, and no works of the law can save anyone, as Paul says in Romans 3.

Rom 3:27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

and

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

The only way a Jew may be saved is to embrace Christ and place saving faith in Him. There is no way for a Jew to become saved through the mosaic law. Romans abolishes that idea plainly.

 

[Victorious1]

The prophecy of this new covenant can be found in Jeremiah 31.

Jeremiah 31:31-34:
31. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:​

32. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The spiritual blessings of the New Covenant was first given to the nation of Israel, but they refused Jesus as the Messiah who had come to redeem them from their sins. On the day of Pentecost to receive the gift of God's Holy Spirit, was made available not only to the Jews, but also to the Gentiles. Today both Jew and Gentle make up the Body of Christ. This could not be accomplished without the New Covenant which was made with the sinless blood of Jesus Christ, our living Lord and Savior.

The New Covenant and the Shed Blood of Jesus Christ

Matthew 26:27-28:
27. And he [Jesus] took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28. For this is my blood of the new testament [covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The wine Jesus gave to the disciples represented his blood of the covenant (the binding-agreement) which must be shed in the making of this new covenant for the remission of sins.

The covenant which Jesus referred to was going to come into effect at the moment that the complete redemption and salvation was made available to mankind, which occurred on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the Book of Acts chapter 2 when God by means of the Lord Jesus Christ shed forth the gift of holy spirit.

This new covenant of the spirit (holy spirit-life, the token which is the gift of holy spirit received by all who believe what God says regarding Himself and His son, the Lord Jesus Christ – Romans 10:9) replaced the former covenant of law and circumcision.

The Lord Jesus told his disciples that God would raise him from the dead and he told them of the glory to come for himself and for those who believe. The fullness of this will come to pass when all who believe what God says about Himself and His son, the Lord Jesus Christ, will receive our own spiritual bodies like the one that Christ received when God resurrected him.

Jesus Christ came to give His life as an atonal sacrifice for the sins of mankind, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever (Jew-Gentile) believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16). Now how is it possible for whosoever to receive eternal life? It is only possible through the shed blood of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, "For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matthew 26:28). Hebrews 9:22 says that "without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins."

In the Old Covenant is was the death of "stand-in" lambs and other animals that god allowed to temporarily cover His people's sins (Hebrews 10:1-14). These sacrifices were a foreshadow or types of the coming Redeemer, Jesus Christ. He was the coming Redeemer whose blood was shed to take away the sin of the world (John 1:29).

Without remission of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ no person could be born again of God's Spirit, and the Body of Christ, which is made up of born-again believers, would not be a living reality today. Thus, to say that the new covenant does not have a thing to with the Body of Christ is simply not the truth of God's Word. This idea is a misconception of what the New Covenant is and to whom the spiritual blessings of that covenant are given.

Hebrews 9;14:
How much more, then, would the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God.

Jesus Christ, through his blood, offered his life (Leviticus 17:11) for the payment of sin and sins of mankind. The suffering and death of Jesus Christ was God's Redemptive plan to make available salvation to all mankind. ​

The unblemished or sinless blood of Jesus Christ was the "surety" of the New Covenant. Hebrews 7:22: "By so much also Jesus hath become the surety of the new covenant." ​

The ancient Greek word egguos describes someone who gives security. It is a person who would cosign a loan to guarantee payment, or someone who puts up bail for a prisoner. Jesus himself is the guarantee, the surety of a better covenant. He is the propitiation/payment for the sins of the world. ​

Hebrews 9:27,28:​

27. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

28. So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

When the blood of bulls and goats could do only temporarily for Israel under the Old Covenant, the blood of Jesus has done once and for all for everyone who believes in Him. He bore our sins in his own body on the cross (1 Peter 2:24). By His freedom of will He gave up His life for us.​

Prophecy of the New Covenant in the Old Testament​

Isaiah 42:1, 6:
1. Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

6. I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

(1) This is prophecy of the coming Messiah who would bring judgment for the nations, that is the Gentiles. This prophecy speaks of the "Servant," which is referring to the suffering of the Messiah as given Isaiah 53:1-12.​

(6) You were called in righteousness, and you will bring salvation, not only to Your people , but also to those afar off, (Gentiles) who seem beyond salvation.”

Jesus spoke of coming for the whole world in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." Jesus spoke of Him coming for the nation of Israel in Matthew 15, but Jesus also spoke of His coming for the Gentiles to trust in Him as well in the Gospel of Matthew. ​

Matthew 12:18-21:​

18.. Behold my servant [child], whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom My soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew [announce] judgment to the Gentiles.
19. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
20. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21.And in [on] his name shall the Gentiles trust.

The prophecy of Isaiah 42 speaks of the ultimate ministry of Jesus to the Gentiles, and Israel, a bruised reed He will not break, and smoking flax shall He will not quench He sends forth justice to victory; And in his name the Gentiles trust."

That the Gentiles would be among the people of God was no secret for it had been made-known by God through prophecy given in the Old Testament.

2 Corinthians 6:2:
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation.)​

Here Paul quotes from Isaiah 49:8 and writes that God says, "I heard you on an acceptable time and I came tohelp you in (the) day of salvation." ---​

• look (behold, see, pay attention)!, now at the present time is the well-acceptable time – ​

• look!, now is the day of salvation (the period of time pertaining-to salvation).

God has heard each one of you singularly on an acceptable time and He came to help you in the day of salvation – look – it has come to pass! God has helped you by means of the Lord Jesus Christ, and , , .

• Now, today,is the well-acceptable time.
• Now, today, it is available for both the descendants of Israel/Jacob and the Gentiles (other nations) to be saved.
• The new covenant of spirit is now in effect and has been made available to all by God by means of the Lord Jesus Christ,

[Reference: Isaiah 49:5-12; Acts chapter 2; Romans 10:8-10; I Corinthians 3:9, and 15:10; I Timothy 2:1-7.]


To be continued .....

 

[Victorious1]

2 Corinthians 3:6:
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament [covenant]; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."​

Here Paul is saying that God is the One Who caused us to be able/sufficient ministers of the new covenant. To be sufficient people who serve to bring profit to others, We are sufficient to serve the new covenant to people.​

Paul explains that this new covenant is not of writing, it does not proceed from hat which is written, as the law which was given by God on Mount Sinai to Moses for Israel a long time ago, but on the contrary, this new covenant is of SPIRIT. ​

The new covenant proceeds from, pertains to and consists of that which is spirit – that holy spirit-life which God gives by means of the Lord Jesus Christ that was first made available on the day of Pentecost less than 2000 years ago from today, but only about 28 years before Paul wrote this physical letter to the Corinthian church and all the holy people in the whole of Achaia! ​

This New Covenant of Spirit Has Replaced the Former Covenant of Law and Circumcision ​

The new covenant came into effect at the moment that complete redemption and salvation was made available to mankind on the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) when God by means of the Lord Jesus Christ shed forth holy spirit. This holy spirit-life is the deposit, token, earnest received by all who believe what God says regarding Himself and His son, the Lord Jesus Christ – Romans 10:8-10.

The coming of the Messiah was for both the Jews and the Gentiles.

Romans 9:23-25:

23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?25.As he saith also in O see, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.​

Hosea 2:23:
And I will sow her to Me in the earth. And I will have mercy on No-mercy. And I will say to not my people, You are My people. And they shall say, My God.​

Romans 10:19-21:
19. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses says, "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.​

20. But Isaiah is very bold and says, "I was found by those who did not seek Me, I became known to those who did not ask after Me."​

21. But to Israel He says, "All day long I have stretched forth My hands to a disobeying and gainsaying people​

Isaiah 65:1-2:
1. I am sought by those who asked not for Me; I am found by those who did not seek Me. I said, Behold Me, behold Me, to a nation not calling on My name.

2. I have spread out My hands all the day to a rebellious people who walk in the way not good, after their own thoughts.

Luke 24:44-47:
44. And He said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and in the Psalms about me.

45. And He opened their mind to understand the Scriptures.

46. And He said to them, So it is written, and so it behoved Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,

47. And that repentance and remission of sins should be proclaimed in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

"Remissions of sins" - the New Covenant - the message for salvation is for all people. Jesus said that these things were written in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and Psalms, which shows that this message was spoken of before the Apostle Paul. It is true that Paul clarified and expounded on many things, but it is not true that it was only Paul who spoke of salvation for the Gentiles.

In the new covenant, the wine represented his blood and the bread represented his body

I Corinthians 11:23-26:
22. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. ​

23. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:​

They broke bread from house to house, they ate together, so it's okay to have a meal together -- but just don't have an imperial feast -- that would be a problem. He's basically saying, "Don't just don't worship the pagan gods, serve the Lord's table and the Devil's table simultaneously. Let's just eat. But in regards to what I have received of the Lord that which I also delivered unto you." ​

24. And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken [bruised, wounded] for you: this do in remembrance of me.​

The body of the Lord Jesus Christ was not broken, not a bone in his body was broken. This cannot be a part of the text, and it isn't in certain manuscripts, therefore, it needs to be deleted. His body was bruised and wounded for you. "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes [bruises, wounds] ye were healed." (I Peter 2:24).​

25. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Whenever you read the word "testament" it is "covenant" -- that covenant relationship God made with Abraham, Moses, etc. But, there is a "new covenant," which Christ established through his blood/in his blood. We do it in remembrance, that means it's a memorial, not a law. It is something that we do as a tradition, a custom. How often do you do it? "As often as ye do it." It doen't give any time.

26. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.​

It doesn't say you do it once a week, or once a month or once a year. It just says "As oft as" you show or proclaim the Lord's death until he returns. And not his death only but what his death but what his death accomplished -- it brings back to our remembrance all that Jesus Christ did for us. His body was bruised and wounded for the healing of our bodies. His blood was shed for the remission, forgiveness of sins, and that is what we are to remember and proclaim.​

27. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

If you partake of communion without recognizing what it is for; or if you mix with it the imperial feast -- the pagan customs; if you eat of the table of Lord and the table of the Devil simultaneously, then it is unworthy and that person is guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29.For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

The word "damnation" is judgment because that person does not discern, separate, make a distinction between what is God's and what is the Devil's, and because they do not make a distinction between what the bread is for and what the cup is for.​

30. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.​

There were many of the the believers who were weak and sickly and many sleep or died prematurely. The reason for this is because they did not recognize that the bread represented Christ's body, which was wounded and bruised for the healing of our bodies. And that the cup represented his blood which was shed for the remission and forgiveness of sins (the new covenant that is in Christ's blood). Then people got weak, and after you get weak you get sick -- all sickness starts with a weakness in the body, and then you get sick and finally you die before you should.​

How can anyone say the new covenant is not for the Gentiles but something that will occur in the future. That the Gentiles through the new covenant will have a relationship with God in the future. is not true. The new covenant came into effect on the day of Pentecost with the receiving of God's gift of holy spirit.

We have just read and studied I Corinthians 11:23-27, which is which is addressed to the born again believers? Paul taught in detail the meaning of the bread and the cup of the new covenant and what each one represents and means to the born-again believers. to whom I Corinthians is written, The new covenant is not a think of the future which has yet to come into effect. The new covenant is here and now for all who desire to receive all the Jesus Christ accomplished through his death, resurrection and ascension. ​

The new covenant was for Israel; however, we receive and enjoy the spiritual blessings of that covenant and all the accomplishments of Christ which made the second covenant possible. ​

When Israel rejected Jesus as the Messiah, the new covenant which he established with Israel is being held in abeyance for Israel until the Lord returns to reestablish Only a small segment of Israel ever came to the point of accepting the Messiah as the one who came to redeem them from their sins, Therefore, they did not accept the opportunity to appropriate the greatness of the Mystery which God through Christ brought about. ​

God bless you
Victorious 1 ​

 

[berg]

Hi Berg:

Thank you for writing.

Thank you for raising this point that has caused many Dispy’s to stumble over the misunderstanding of a few key words. First of all, I am reading directly from the Greek and can assure you there is no “they were in Christ before I was” lingo in the original language. Let’s look at the NASB translation, then look at the original Greek, and the truth of what Paul is actually saying will begin to dawn on Berg:

Paul is testifying that his kinsmen and fellow prisoners came to be IN Christ Jesus “before me,” or through his own work as the ‘evangelist.’ A literal reading of the Greek says,

Strong's Lexicon showing the Greek roots:

“. . . hos kai pro emou 'ginomai*' en Christos,” (Nelson’s Greek/English Interlinear) or “who also before me 'came to be*' in Christ.” Anyone ‘hearing’ and ‘believing’ Paul's "My Gospel" (#2) in Berg’s presence “before me came to be in Christ” through the ‘faith to faith’ (Rom. 1:16-17) transaction whereby they were ‘sealed in Him’ (Eph. 1:13-14) for the Day of Redemption (Eph. 4:30). The Apostle Paul makes the fact perfectly clear to Timothy that he was indeed the ‘first’ to be found “IN” Christ Jesus, by obeying our gospel, saying,

The Apostle Paul became our father “in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1Cor. 4:15), by becoming the ‘pattern’ that typifies every member of Christ’s body, on the road to Damascus back in Acts 9:15-16. Paul is a Jewish Pharisee (Phil. 3:5) symbolizing every Jew called to God through our Gospel AND he is a Roman citizen (Acts 16:37-38) typifying the Gentiles coming to God the very same way, even though previously he had persecuted Peter’s Kingdom Bride Church (Acts 8:1-2 = Church #1); just like many of us persecuted Christians ‘before’ our own conversion. Scholars have mistranslated ‘protos’ (first) into ‘chief’ and ‘foremost’ and a variety of terms, because they do not understand what it means to be “seated in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus”(Eph. 2:6 = diagram) through our ‘one baptism’ (Eph. 4:5) performed by the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 12:13).

While many of these other Romans were saved via the preaching of others, Andronicus and Junias came to be “IN Christ” while standing in Paul’s presence (before me).

In Christ Jesus too, :0)

Terral

Many thanks Terral, that little glimpse into the Greek certainly cleared up my problem with Romans 16:7.

In Christ Jesus, me too.

Berg.

 

[Terral]

reHi Victorious1:

Victorious1 >> The new covenant proceeds from, pertains to and consists of that which is spirit – that holy spirit-life which God gives by means of the Lord Jesus Christ that was first made available on the day of Pentecost less than 2000 years ago from today, but only about 28 years before Paul wrote this physical letter to the Corinthian church and all the holy people in the whole of Achaia!

You appear to have spent some time here cutting commentary from someone else’s misunderstandings of the New Covenant for the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8). Please allow me to provide everyone the link, so they can look these things up for themselves:

http://www.christianbiblelinks.com/II Corinthians3.htm

Christian Bible Links >> The new covenant proceeds-from, pertains-to and consists-of that-which is spirit – that holy spirit-life which God gives by means of the Lord Jesus Christ that was first made available on the day of Pentecost less than 2000 years ago from today, but only about 28 years before Paul wrote this physical letter to the Corinthian church and all the holy people in the whole of Achaia.

All of this is NONSENSE and has been addressed in Post #40 and Post #41 above in this thread. The Book of Hebrews was written just before 70 AD and says,

“For finding fault with them, He says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a New Covenant with the House of Israel and Judah; not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the Land of Egypt; for they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not care for them, says the Lord. For this covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and I will write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying, “Know the Lord,” for ALL will know Me, from the least to the greatest of them.” Hebrews 8:8-11.

If God’s Word says the Lord will effect this New Covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah written in 68 AD, then how did that New Covenant come into effect in 33 AD at Pentecost??? :0) Victorious1 is selling a cheap version of Replacement Theology where the “New Covenant” is between someone OTHER than the Lord and the Houses of Israel and Judah!! Go back to the “Christian Bible Links” website and search for the phrase “Hebrews 8:8” to realize they never quote from this Hebrews passage even one time to give the illusion that the “New Covenant” is for someone OTHER than the Houses of Israel and Judah. These Replacement Theology fanatics have the “New Covenant” coming into effect (Acts 2) LONG before NT Scripture was written placing that event still IN THE FUTURE. :0)

Now I can rummage through this Replacement Theology Propaganda line-by-line to refute every word like we already see in Posts #40+41, or I can use this opportunity to give you a better perspective on what is really going on at Pentecost that proves beyond all doubt the “New Covenant” will be made between the Lord God (Christ) and Israel at a time still IN OUR FUTURE. Our gracious moderators can determine for themselves if Victorious1 is guilty of misusing the commentary from this third-party website that stumbles in error over this same topic.

God offered Israel of the flesh the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (#1) three times through the Father (John the Baptist = sent from God = John 1:6), the Son (Jesus Christ is the Son of God = John 1:34) and the Holy Spirit beginning on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2+). The Jews never recognized John the Baptist and did to him whatever they wished, just as they crucified the Lord coming behind Him (Matt. 17:12). John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit from his father Zacharias, who entered the Temple in the year of his conception by lot (Luke 1:9), while still in his mother’s womb (Luke 1:15). John the Baptist then passed the Holy Spirit baton to Jesus Christ in the Jordan River (Matt. 3:15-16), saying, “He must increase, but I must decrease.” John 3:30. Jesus Christ told His disciples that He MUST go away, so the Helper (Holy Spirit) would return to them (John 16:7) on the Day of Pentecost. While the Jews allowed Elijah to die in prison AND murdered our Lord Jesus Christ using the hands of Gentiles, Israel’s ‘transgression’ (Rom. 11:11) was made complete by their willingness to murder those “full of the Holy Spirit” using their own bare hands! God uses Acts 6-7 to make this point perfectly clear,

“The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch. And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them. The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith. And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.” Acts 6:5-8.

Steven’s name means “Crown” (#4736) and God is using this key Kingdom Church Disciple to demonstrate Israel’s transgression against His ‘Crown,’ as this is the ONLY Bible principal said to be “Full of the Holy Spirit” twice in God’s Living Word (Acts 6:5, 7:55). Jesus Christ told the disciples and all Israel that,

“And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; BUT he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it WILL NOT be forgiven him.” Luke 12:10.

What? Is the Holy Spirit greater than the Son of Man? No sir. However, John the Baptist is the ‘spirit witness’ (see 1Jn 5:6-8) preparing “The Way” for the Son of Man to come in water and in blood (1Jn 5:6). The “blood witness” is the “Son of God” following “My messenger” that Israel COULD blasphemy and receive forgiveness. The key to understanding the reasons WHY Israel would NOT be forgiven their blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is gathered by realizing this is the ‘third’ witness of the three (spirit, blood and water). Israel’s refusal to recognize John the Baptist as Elijah as someone “MORE than a prophet” (Matt. 11:9) was ‘strike one,’ with their crucifixion of our Lord Jesus Christ representing “strike two.” Israel could reject BOTH and still accept the “Gospel of the Kingdom” via the Ministry of the Holy Spirit that 'began' at Pentecost through the “Helper” of the Father and the Son. However, should Israel stumble over this third and 'final' offering of the “Gospel of God” that Christ had been preaching from the very beginning (Mark 1:14-15), then this marked the beginning of THE END with “Strike three and you are OUT!” Read through the remainder of Acts 6 and Acts 7 and judge for yourself if the Lord God has effected a New Covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah:

"You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; you who received the law as ordained by angels [Romans 9:1-4], and yet did not keep it." Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. But being Full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the Glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul.” Acts 7:51-58.

The three offerings of the “Gospel of the Kingdom,” showing the ‘decline’ of the Kingdom Church, is here where you see “Steven” marking the 'beginning' of the downhill slide culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. Victorious1’s error is highlighted by the fact that Peter is preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom on the Day of Pentecost for gathering disciples to the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29 = Church #1), just like John the Baptist (Matt. 3:1-6) and Christ (Matt. 4:17-23) and the Twelve (Matt. 10:5-7) had been doing from the very beginning. In short, God is continuing to offer the “Gospel of the Kingdom” as the SWORD (Matt 10:34-40) that is DIVIDING obedient Israel (Peter, John, James, etc.) from disobedient Israel (chief priests, scribes, Pharisees, etc.) having NOTHING to do with effecting any New Covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah AT ALL.

[Continued]

 

[Terral]

Disobedient Israel is murdering Steven using their own hands in direct defiance of the “Holy Spirit” carried within his mortal body. God is using these two chapters of Acts to show you the ‘dispensational shift’ between Peter’s ‘decreasing’ Kingdom Bride AND Paul’s ‘increasing’ “BODY of Christ” (Church #2) that will begin ‘increasing’ after his conversion in Acts 9:15-16.

These important points represent a golden opportunity to see the differences between professing Traditional-Acts 2 and Ultra-Acts 9-13 and Hyper-Acts 28 Dispensationalists described here. The fact is that a majority of professing Dispy’s fall into the Traditional-Acts 2 type, even though this interpretation has no basis in Biblical reality whatsoever. The “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) was given to Paul for us Gentiles and obviously AFTER his conversion, which is also obviously well AFTER the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2. Paul’s “Word of the Cross” (Gospel #2) gospel message is still “Hidden IN GOD” (Eph. 3:9) at Pentecost with every other aspect of “The Mystery” (Eph. 3:3), and Paul’s “my gospel” is “according to the revelation of THE MYSTERY” (Rom. 16:25). Therefore, every “Traditional Dispy” is ‘wrongly dividing’ the Word of Truth by starting our ‘mystery is great’ (Eph. 5:32) “His BODY” Church (Col. 1:24) way back here in Acts 2, BEFORE the steward over this current Dispensation is even converted. The Ultra-Dispensationalists (like C.R. Stam) have a much better case for starting our mystery church with Paul’s conversion AND (this is the important component), the Holy Spirit Himself speaking (very rare indeed) AND separating him (and Barnabas) for this special work at Antioch:

“Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there (see Acts 11:20-26), prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." Acts 13:1-2.

Remember again that the “Holy Spirit” left the Temple with Zacharias and struck him mute over his unbelief (Luke 1:18-22), until John was baptized in his mother’s womb. Then John passed the Holy Spirit baton to Christ in the Jordan, then Christ passed the Helper to the Disciples at Pentecost, as each Principal ‘passing’ the Holy Spirit ‘decreases’ AND the 'receiver' of the Holy Spirit ‘increases.’ Peter’s Kingdom ‘bride’ church is ‘decreasing’ from early Acts to Acts 15:14 with his last mention as “Simeon,” but Paul’s ministry is ‘increasing’ to totally focus on him from this meeting in Jerusalem to the end of Acts where the “Hyper-Dispensationalists” want to begin our mystery church in Acts 28:28.

The truth is that our mystery church began with the conversion of the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus as the ‘first’ (1Tim. 1:15-16), where he became our father IN Christ Jesus through the Gospel (1Cor. 4:15). Steven’s stoning is not ‘the end’ of Peter’s Kingdom Bride, but this event simply marks the ‘beginning of the end’ for a Kingdom Bride Church that is ‘decreasing’ from that moment to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. You cannot ‘begin’ our mystery church way back in Acts 28, because obviously there are plenty of “Christ’s BODY” (1Cor. 12:27) members running around LONG before Paul turns his back on “preaching the kingdom” (Acts 20:25) to Israel of the flesh. No, this does not make me a ‘Ultra Dispensationalist,’ but with Dispy’s positioning their dogma on events from Acts 2 to Acts 28, then at least some of them happen to hit the mark somewhere in the middle. :0)

The point here is that Victorious1 is confusing God’s ‘third’ offering of the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel ONLY on the Day of Pentecost with the Lord God effecting the “New Covenant” with the “Houses of Israel and Judah” (Heb. 8:8) that will not even become a "prophecy" of NT Scripture until almost 40 years later. Paul is talking about being made “adequate servants of a new covenant” (2Cor. 3:6), because God sent him to “Gentiles (gospel of the grace of God = Acts 20:24), kings, AND the sons of Israel (preaching the kingdom = Acts 20:25)” (Acts 9:15-16) from where Peter’s Kingdom ‘Bride’ was being called. Again, Paul had a contingent of Kingdom Jews (“of Apollos” and “of Cephas” = 1Cor. 1:12) represented in this largest-of-all Corinthian congregations from the “sons of Israel” to whom the New Covenant will someday be effected by the Lord.

The fact that Israel was scattered among the nations in 70 AD tells you that the Lord did NOT effect any “New Covenant” with the Houses of Israel and Judah in light of their ‘transgression,’ as this will come with the restoration of the “Tabernacle of David” (Acts 15:16-18) that James connects to a period “After these things” of today. Those of us seated with Him in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:6) have no need of any New Covenant, because we have lives hidden with Christ IN GOD (Col. 3:3) even now. :0)

This Replacement Theology nonsense is a very dangerous form of false doctrine that blinds the members of Christ’s body from seeing their ‘citizenship in heaven’ (Phil. 3:20) and a place in “His HEAVENLY Kingdom” (2Tim. 4:18). The New Covenant is for the Houses of Israel and Judah that are NOT found “IN Christ Jesus” by obeying our gospel, as they remain ‘blind’ (Rom. 11:25) to these things, until “all Israel is saved” (Rom. 11:26-29) AFTER our Rapture, when Elijah returns to restore all things.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Victorious1]

reHi Victorious1:

You appear to have spent some time here cutting commentary from someone else’s misunderstandings of the New Covenant for the Houses of Israel and Judah

Not someone elses misunderstanding at all, rather someone who really knows how to study and work the accuracy of Scripture with which I am in total agreement from my own studies. Used the info from their website because it was easier to copy and paste, which is one or two statements, the rest is my own work. I don't paste anything I haven't studied first. Still the same Word and the same TRUTH.

I suggest you spend more time on their website because I believe you can learn what the Bible reatlly teaches. Your misconception of the New Covenant is totally off the Word.

Victorious 1

 

[Victorious1]

The Blood of Jesus Christ is precious because of its REDEEMING power.
The Bible teaches that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin (Heb. 9:22). As we saw in our text, the Word of God teaches that the blood of Christ is precious. It is precious because of its redeeming power. We were not redeemed with silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ.

Every benefit and blessing we possess in our redemption, including complete and total victory over Satan, is based on Jesus and His triumph over Satan at the cross. We have victory over Satan at the cross. We have victory over Satan because of Jesus' shed blood. The old-timers in Pentecost understood a truth about the blood of Jesus. They would plead the blood against the devil. That's Scriptural!

When Jesus conquered Satan in His death, burial, and resurrection, He stripped from Satan all his authority over spiritual death. Jesus now has "... the keys of hell and of [spiritual] death" (Revelation 1:18)

You and I are Abraham's seed. We are heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:29). It is no longer by the blood of cows and sheep, but by the blood of Almighty God, Himself. Ours is a covenant between a resurrected immortal man, Jesus, and a holy and infallible God.

The word redemption means "to buy back." We were bought with a price, the blood of Jesus Christ. He paid the ransom price through the shedding of his blood on the cross for our sins. The wages of sin is death, and man did not have the price to pay in order to free himself. Jesus' blood represented His life because the life of the flesh is in the blood (Levitcus. 17:11).

"And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins." (I Corinthians 15:17), Not only this, but belief in the resurrection of Christ is essential to salvation (Romans 10:9-10).

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, fantasy]But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:12-14)[/FONT][/FONT]

Christ had to go into the Holy of Holies , offer himself as our sacrificial lamb and High Priest, and then sat down at the right hand of the Father to continue His work as our High Priest. Redemption is complete. Nothing needs to be added to it. Yet, it was not complete until all things had been fulfilled.

The new covenant proceeds from, pertains to and consists of that which is spirit – that holy spirit-life which God gives by means of the Lord Jesus Christ that was first made available on the day of Pentecost less than 2000 years ago from today, but only about 28 years before Paul wrote this physical letter to the Corinthian church and all the holy people in the whole of Achaia!

AND THAT'S THE TRUTH!
PRAISE GOD! AMEN!

 

[Victorious1]

Christian Bible Links >> The new covenant proceeds-from, pertains-to and consists-of that-which is spirit – that holy spirit-life which God gives by means of the Lord Jesus Christ that was first made available on the day of Pentecost less than 2000 years ago from today, but only about 28 years before Paul wrote this physical letter to the Corinthian church and all the holy people in the whole of Achaia.

TERREL >>> All of this is NONSENSE and has been addressed in Post #40 and Post #41 above in this thread. The Book of Hebrews was written just before 70 AD and says,.

First of all Hebrews was written in 52-53 AD. I Corinthians was writtne in the Spring of 57 AD.

In Hebrews 8:8-11 Paul is quoting from the Old Testment. The New Covenant was prophecy written long before Paul was ever born.

The New Covenant came into effect for Israel on the day of Pentecost and the Gentiles received the blessings of that covenant which is the New Birth --- everything Christ accomplished for the believer on the cross and through his resurrection. It is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that a person can be saved and born again of God's Spirit. Read the Bible.

When Israel rejected Jesus as the Messiah, the new covenant He established was withdrawn and is being held in abeyance for Israel It will again be in effect when Israel is re-established as stated in the book of Revelation, for then Jesus Christ will again be present to reign over Israel in the Kingdom of Heaven. Read the Bible.

Your understanding of the whole scope of the Word of God is TOTAL NONSENSE and a mockery of The Truth based on private interpreation only.

I pray that Christians who are looking for the truth and accuracy of God's Word will not be blinded by the erroneous message you deliver.

As of now, I shake the dust off my feet

 

[Notrash]

First of all Hebrews was written in 52-53 AD. I Corinthians was writtne in the Spring of 57 AD.

In Hebrews 8:8-11 Paul is quoting from the Old Testment. The New Covenant was prophecy written long before Paul was ever born.

The New Covenant came into effect for Israel on the day of Pentecost and the Gentiles received the blessings of that covenant which is the New Birth --- everything Christ accomplished for the believer on the cross and through his resurrection. It is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that a person can be saved and born again of God's Spirit. Read the Bible.

When Israel rejected Jesus as the Messiah, the new covenant He established was withdrawn and is being held in abeyance for Israel It will again be in effect when Israel is re-established as stated in the book of Revelation, for then Jesus Christ will again be present to reign over Israel in the Kingdom of Heaven. Read the Bible.

Your understanding of the whole scope of the Word of God is TOTAL NONSENSE and a mockery of The Truth based on private interpreation only.

I pray that Christians who are looking for the truth and accuracy of God's Word will not be blinded by the erroneous message you deliver.

As of now, I shake the dust off my feet

no post

 

[Terral]

Hi Victorious1 (V1):

Terral Original >> You appear to have spent some time here cutting commentary from someone else’s misunderstandings of the New Covenant for the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8).

V1’s Reply (Post #55) >> Not someone elses misunderstanding at all, rather someone who really knows how to study and work the accuracy of Scripture with which I am in total agreement from my own studies.

First of all, if you are going to cut and paste “Replacement Theology” dogma from a third-party source, then kindly place “quotes” around the person’s work and quote them word-for-word. Then provide these readers the location where they can access the remainder of your third-party propaganda by kindly placing the link. This allows the judges in our debate to read 'all' of your author's comments in their true context. Then lastly, even your quote of my words include the absolute fact that the Lord God is effecting the New Covenant between Himself and the Houses of Israel and Judah, which is NOT the “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) part of the “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2). Where do you gain the authority to simply ‘replace’ the names of Israel and Judah with the “believers in our gospel?” :0) Where is your reply to my arguments standing against your Replacement Theology dogma in Post #40 and #41? Oh, someone is here to cut and paste their Replacement Theology drivel without actually defending a single word. Just one member of Christ's body (tutor in Christ) rightly dividing the word of truth (2Tim. 2:15) is worth more than a thousand 'cut and paste theologians' allowing their boots to be watered by others . . .

V1 >> Used the info from their website because it was easier to copy and paste, which is one or two statements, the rest is my own work. I don't paste anything I haven't studied first. Still the same Word and the same TRUTH.

Everyone cutting and pasting the work of others here has ‘actually read and studied’ the material first. However, V1’s inability to actually ‘defend’ any of that nonsense is evidence that you have not reconciled these interpretations with the truth of God’s Living Word. If that were the case, then V1 would be making statements like, “I replace the names of Israel in Judah in Hebrews 8:8 with ‘our church,’ because . . .” and “I place the Lord God effecting the New Covenant with Peter’s Kingdom Church in Acts 2, even though the ‘NT Prophecy’ was penned almost 40 years later (Heb. 8:8), because . . .”. The fact is that someone else blinded V1 with this kind of Replacement Theology dogma, as evidenced by the work you cut and pasted from here, and you bought that bogus interpretation hook, line and sinker . . .

V1 >> I suggest you spend more time on their website because I believe you can learn what the Bible reatlly teaches. Your misconception of the New Covenant is totally off the Word.

Really? :0) Please forgive, but I know more about your Replacement Theology dogma than V1 and have been arguing against that nonsense in all these posts on this thread. Those of us already “seated with Him in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:6) with lives hidden with Christ IN GOD (Col. 3:3) have no need of any New Covenant that is specifically effected between the Lord God and the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8), so please stop being ridiculous. :0) Where does Paul tell the Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians or Thessalonians about their “New Covenant” relationship with the Lord God? Even that concept is ridiculous, because the Book of Hebrews was written AFTER (NT books dated here by MANY scholars) all of those Epistles to GENTILES and the ‘prophecy’ about the “New Covenant” relationship effected for the Houses of Israel and Judah IS STILL FUTURE. A brief summary of the New Testament HISTORICAL characteristics of this “New Covenant” topic proves beyond all doubt that V1 hasn’t the slightest clue about what he (I suspect she) is talking about. You are placing the ‘time’ of the Lord God effecting this New Covenant WAY back around 30 AD at the Day of Pentecost, which renders the ‘future’ prophecies of Hebrews 8:8-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34) completely useless, as if they were fulfilled some 40 years earlier at Pentecost. Your statement above is V1’s unsupported opinion rather than a rebuttal to even the smallest of my arguments standing against your Replacement Theology interpretations. Now we can add Posts #53 and #54 to the others for which V1 has no reply. :0)

Anyone led astray by your Replacement Theology 'cut and paste' activities here is not even paying attention IMHO . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Terral]

Hi V1:

V1 > First of all Hebrews was written in 52-53 AD. I Corinthians was written in the Spring of 57 AD.

These scholars place the writing of Hebrews between 60 AD and 100AD with NOBODY sharing your 52 AD time at all. Even your ‘much too early’ time works against your own 30 AD ‘fulfillment’ of this “New Covenant” coming into effect WAY back on the Day of Pentecost. :0) Have you forgotten all about the ‘cut and paste’ job you took from here?

V1 (Post #51) >> The new covenant proceeds from, pertains to and consists of that which is spirit – that holy spirit-life which God gives by means of the Lord Jesus Christ that was first made available on the day of Pentecost less than 2000 years ago from today, but only about 28 years before Paul wrote this physical letter to the Corinthian church and all the holy people in the whole of Achaia!

Even if Hebrews was written in 52 AD (not), then your timing is still two decades off, because the ‘prophecy’ is still FUTURE in Hebrews 8:8-12. I made a small point about your practice of ‘cutting and pasting’ Replacement Theology drivel from the above website, but since you insist on justifying this practice, then please allow me to make the point crystal clear for our readers. Your second quote has a telling omission where the original work was modified to fit ‘your’ motives. The original “copyrighted” (see bottom of page) quote goes like this:

http://www.christianbiblelinks.com/II Corinthians3.htm

(my emphasis) >> This new covenant of spirit has replaced the former covenant of law and circumcision. The new covenant came into effect at the moment that complete redemption and salvation was made available to mankind on the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) when God by means of the Lord Jesus Christ shed forth holy spirit. This holy spirit-life is the deposit, token, earnest received by all who believe what God says regarding Himself and His son, the Lord Jesus Christ – Romans 10:8-10*.

You purposely omitted the first sentence of the paragraph that includes the “replaced the former covenant of law and circumcision” lingo, because that ‘replaced’ jargon lets the proverbial “Replacement Theology” cat out of the false dogma bag. :0) The problem with your author’s commentary is that the members of Christ’s BODY are saved by God’s grace through faith APART from works and obedience of faith "among all the Gentiles" believing our gospel (#2).

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "But the righteous shall live by faith." Romans 1:16-17.

Just how many times does the term “gospel” appear in the Book of Hebrews? Zero. Paul uses the terms “faith” and “grace” together in the same verses to these Romans five times (1:5, 4:16, 5:2, 12:3, 12:6), but how many times do these terms appear together in the Book of Hebrews? Zero. In fact, the Apostle Paul is the ONLY Bible writer to even use these terms together in the entire Bible, while using the term “musterion” (mystery) twenty times to ‘reveal’ things for “Christ’s BODY” previously “Hidden IN GOD” (Eph. 3:9), as part of the ‘wisdom given him’ (2Peter 3:14-16). How many times do Hebrews, Peter, John, James and Jude use the term “musterion” in all the Kingdom Epistles bearing all of their collective names? Zero! The Kingdom Epistles (like Hebrews) are describing the “Fulfillment of PROPHECY,” that the OT prophets ‘could’ see, while our gospel, our church (Eph. 5:32) and our Rapture (1Thes. 4:16-17) are all “according to the revelation of THE MYSTERY.” Romans 16:25. All of these “New Covenant” promises are connected to the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8), which has NOTHING to do with the members of our “His BODY” Church in the world today.

V1 >> In Hebrews 8:8-11 Paul is quoting from the Old Testment. The New Covenant was prophecy written long before Paul was ever born.

Paul wrote exactly 13 Epistles (Romans – Philemon) in our New Testament and every one bears his name in the opening salutation. The “New Covenant” prophecies of Hebrews 8 were written in light of a ‘future’ fulfillment, which YOU are trying to connect back to the Day of Pentecost. This is like those blinded by Preterism insisting that all the Revelation prophesies (written between 90 and 100 AD) were fulfilled way back in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem LONG before they were even written. Saying the New Covenant came into effect way back in Acts 2 is even more ridiculous than the Bullony handed out by these Preterists simply because the ‘timing’ of these NT books makes that very much IMPOSSIBLE.

V1 >> The New Covenant came into effect for Israel on the day of Pentecost and the Gentiles received the blessings of that covenant which is the New Birth --- everything Christ accomplished for the believer on the cross and through his resurrection. It is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that a person can be saved and born again of God's Spirit. Read the Bible.

Now the New Covenant came into effect for Israel on the Day of Pentecost? Have you no idea of what you have quoted from your Replacement Theology website?

http://www.christianbiblelinks.com/II Corinthians3.htm

This new covenant of spirit has replaced the former covenant of law and circumcision. The new covenant came into effect at the moment that complete redemption and salvation was made available TO MANKIND on the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) when God by means of the Lord Jesus Christ shed forth holy spirit. This holy spirit-life is the deposit, token, earnest received by all who believe what God says regarding Himself and His son, the Lord Jesus Christ – Romans 10:8-10*.

You have planted the ‘fulfillment’ of this New Covenant between the Lord God and the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8) way back here in 30 AD (Acts 2) AND have supported that NONSENSE with statements from Paul’s Epistle to the Romans where he insists on being the “Apostle of Gentiles” (Rom. 11:13). None of the Jews in Acts 2 had the opportunity to hear and believe our gospel given to Paul through a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ’ (Gal. 1:11-12) AFTER his conversion in Acts 9! Paul writes about Israel’s “transgression” (Rom. 11:11), saying that the Lord God is making Israel “Jealous” (Romans 10:19) in the same chapter* cited above as proof that He is establishing a New Covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah. Your author says,

“We all have holy spirit-life within us which is the spirit of the new covenant, the spirit of the Lord in us, and we reflect from ourselves our Lord's glory, as a mirror reflects outward from itself the light-rays which arrive on it from the source which causes the image to form on the mirror.”

Even your quoted authority has NO CLUE as to ‘the truth’ that the Lord God will effect the New Covenant between Himself and the Houses of Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:8) that ‘you’ are now saying is for Israel back in Acts 2; even though your authority insists “The new covenant came into effect at the moment that complete redemption and salvation was made available to mankind.”. Jesus Christ Himself blows your theory out of the water, by commanding His disciples, saying,

“And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel (#1) to all creation. He who has believed AND has been baptized shall be saved; BUT he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." Mark 16:15-18.

Peter is offering the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (#1) to the Jews in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2 having NOTHING to do with the Lord God effecting any New Covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah. That ‘prophecy’ would be made almost 40 years LATER in the Book of Hebrews, which is written to a Jewish audience having NOTHING to do with Paul’s “you Gentiles” (Eph. 3:1-3) or his “mystery among the Gentiles” (Col. 1:27).

V1 > When Israel rejected Jesus as the Messiah, the new covenant He established was withdrawn and is being held in abeyance for Israel It will again be in effect when Israel is re-established as stated in the book of Revelation, for then Jesus Christ will again be present to reign over Israel in the Kingdom of Heaven. Read the Bible.

I have read the New Testament more than a hundred times and can see a myriad of inconsistencies in your conflicting statements. Now you have the Acts 2 New Covenant ‘withdrawn’ (this is funny) to be fulfilled later in Revelation, when there is no reference to any “New Covenant” anywhere. The only reference to any “covenant” is here,

“And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.” Revelation 11:19.

The New Covenant was established between the Lord God and the Houses of Israel and Judah to ‘start’ the 1000 Years Day of the Lord (diagram), when Elijah returned to restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11), as the 'prophet' of Acts 3:19-26; which included the “Tabernacle of David” (Acts 15:16-18) on the earth as the mere ‘copy’ of those Heavenly Things above. The fact is that V1 has invented this “New Covenant” version of Replacement Theology containing a myriad of contradictions that you are not able to explain.

V1 >> Your understanding of the whole scope of the Word of God is TOTAL NONSENSE and a mockery of The Truth based on private interpreation only.

As if ‘your’ Replacement Theology interpretation is anything but V1’s own private interpretation? :0) All of my arguments against your “The new covenant came into effect at the moment that complete redemption and salvation was made available to mankind on the day of Pentecost” NONSENSE remain standing on this thread and you have no answer, but you continue pasting the same drivel again and again anyway.

V1 > I pray that Christians who are looking for the truth and accuracy of God's Word will not be blinded by the erroneous message you deliver. As of now, I shake the dust off my feet

Then all I can do is offer applause. Please “quote >>” anything from my work to offer your rebuttals using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral