Concerning Hell

[Sosorius]

I have spoken to many people of many faiths, and there seems to be one arising concern amongst non-christians in relation to Christianity. This concern, it seems, is rooted in the Christian proclamation of an all-loving God who casts His creations into Hell for an eternity of torture, though He created them knowing what they would do. Several things have, in response to this, been communicated to me by those who find this to be a somewhat questionable act:

1.) How can an All-Loving God cast His creations into fire?

2.) Why eternal torture? Death is vicious, but torture is cruel. Murder is criminal, but torture is disgusting. There are many choices to be had other than eternal torture, and yet God settled on this. In the words of a dear friend of mine, "They have a word for anyone who would torture a human being for long periods of time: evil."

3.) If God knows ahead of time how we shall behave, and that our destiny is eternal torture in Hell, why does he create those destined for such? Is this not akin to giving birth simply so that you may slowly and painfully kill your baby, or to planting a garden simply so that you may burn the field when harvest comes?

God, as Isaiah speaks, truly works all things: good and evil, light and dark.

Anyways, any feedback will be joyously recieved. Questions like this, as one Christian author wrote, "....are the questions which turn men into heretics."

 

[MuAndNu]

2.) Why eternal torture? Death is vicious, but torture is cruel. Murder is criminal, but torture is disgusting. There are many choices to be had other than eternal torture, and yet God settled on this. In the words of a dear friend of mine, "They have a word for anyone who would torture a human being for long periods of time: evil."

It's not "torture," it's "torment." Or, it's not "torment," it's "eternal separation from God."

All of that is evading the question. Whatever Hell is supposed to be, it's represented as eminently and eternally unpleasant. What Christians (Christians who believe in an eternal Hell, anyway) need to explain is, How is Hell--that eminently and eternally unpleasant place--just?

 

[JustJack!]

"We deserve it"

 

[grateful heart]

First of all, Hell was not created for Humans but for the devil and his Angels(Demons).When Man sinned in the garden of Eden he chose Satans way instead of God's way there fore doomed to Hell unless certain things were down, Sacrifices aboeying Gods laws etc , then Jesus came to do for us as the ultimate sacrifice to save us from hell( for those that accept this and let jesus into there lives)
Who said anything about fair or just?Mankind had a choice not to die in the garden but chose wrongly, this is the punishment for all mankind who dont accept the salvation from Jesus Christ, lots of things arnt fair but that argument doesnt hold in this instance.The grace of God is there if you dont accept its your decision not Gods to send you to Hell.

I dont know any real Christians who say that hell is not real, only Christians who take the Bible out of context would say this

 

[JustJack!]

Who said anything about fair or just?Mankind had a choice not to die in the garden but chose wrongly, this is the punishment for all mankind who dont accept the salvation from Jesus Christ, lots of things arnt fair but that argument doesnt hold in this instance.The grace of God is there if you dont accept its your decision not Gods to send you to Hell.

So, I'm being punished because some a-hole chose wrong thousands of years before I was even born? There is no love, no mercy, no justice.

And your God does send ppl to Hell. He judges them and tells them how bad they were, and sends them on their merry ol' way to hell. He doesn't have to, but still he does. Does it please Him to have so many of His children being eternally tormented because of Him?

 

[MuAndNu]

I dont know any real Christians who say that hell is not real, only Christians who take the Bible out of context would say this

I think you're going to be surprised at the Christians here who don't agree. Of course, you're free to define "real Christian" any way you'd like.

 

[JustJack!]

No True Scotsman...

...can't you at least try and come up with some new fallacies.

 

[Jeremiah31_3]

I got a brief scenario to think on before i move onto answering JustJack!'s quote.

A man goes out and decides it's a pretty nice day, but i'm kinda grumpy, i'm gonna go on my merry little way and kill someone. so he does. strangely enough this man ends up in jail and he goes before the supreme court. Now, the Judge of this case is actually this man's father, Obviously he assumes, that's my dad, he loves me, he'd never send me to death would he? wrong. That man is a judge, it is his duty to make sure the law is upheld and that his son is punished for what he did, regardless of how much he loves him, and regardless of how much it may break his heart, the law must be upheld, so his son is sentenced to death. After the judge states that his son is sentenced to death he steps down from his platform/stand thing... and stands beside his son and states "i will take his place. I will take the punishment." (In older times, a person was allowed to take the place of someone who was accused of something, and that person could take the punishment instead of the person who was guilty, not done quite so much now adays.) now this would mean that the father would die and his son would be allowed to live. The father then turns to the son and says "will you accept this?" If the son says no, he dies, if he says yes, he lives, not that complicated.

So, I'm being punished because some a-hole chose wrong thousands of years before I was even born?

Kinda yeah. but can you honestly say that you have also gone ya whole life without doing anything wrong. see coz adam chose wrong, we got booted out of the garden of eden, and live here with satan and all his demons. so they make us make that choice everyday, are you saying that you've never said yes to satan?

There is no love, no mercy, no justice.

There is nothing but love, there is nothing but mercy, there is nothing but justice. god holds all 3 at once, he loves you more that you can imagine, Jesus went to death so that you could be redeemed (mercy), but he has to uphold the law, same as the judge, no matter how much he loves you, the law has to be upheld.

And your God does send ppl to Hell. He judges them and tells them how bad they were, and sends them on their merry ol' way to hell. He doesn't have to, but still he does. Does it please Him to have so many of His children being eternally tormented because of Him?

He does have to. it doesn't please him, and i'm pretty sure the people going to hell weren't merry.

I'm sure i might have stepped on a couple of toes with this post, but i hope it gets ya thinking, give me a buzz if ya got any questions, i'll be happy to chat. God bless.

 

[grateful heart]

So, I'm being punished because some a-hole chose wrong thousands of years before I was even born? There is no love, no mercy, no justice.

So whats your point? no one said life was fair

And your God does send ppl to Hell. He judges them and tells them how bad they were, and sends them on their merry ol' way to hell. He doesn't have to, but still he does. Does it please Him to have so many of His children being eternally tormented because of Him?

no he doesnt, you send yourself to Hell like it or not


I

think you're going to be surprised at the Christians here who don't agree. Of course, you're free to define "real Christian" any way you'd like.

Should be interesting then

 

[JustJack!]

A man goes out and decides it's a pretty nice day, but i'm kinda grumpy, i'm gonna go on my merry little way and kill someone. so he does. strangely enough this man ends up in jail and he goes before the supreme court. Now, the Judge of this case is actually this man's father, Obviously he assumes, that's my dad, he loves me, he'd never send me to death would he? wrong. That man is a judge, it is his duty to make sure the law is upheld and that his son is punished for what he did, regardless of how much he loves him, and regardless of how much it may break his heart, the law must be upheld, so his son is sentenced to death. After the judge states that his son is sentenced to death he steps down from his platform/stand thing... and stands beside his son and states "i will take his place. I will take the punishment." (In older times, a person was allowed to take the place of someone who was accused of something, and that person could take the punishment instead of the person who was guilty, not done quite so much now adays.) now this would mean that the father would die and his son would be allowed to live. The father then turns to the son and says "will you accept this?" If the son says no, he dies, if he says yes, he lives, not that complicated.

Acknowledging that this would never happen in real life, your little story is flawed, like all the others. Jesus isn't asking us to accept Him. You are. You're saying we should take your word for it, that this is what God says. I'm sorry, but I don't deal with middlemen.

Kinda yeah. but can you honestly say that you have also gone ya whole life without doing anything wrong. see coz adam chose wrong, we got booted out of the garden of eden, and live here with satan and all his demons. so they make us make that choice everyday, are you saying that you've never said yes to satan?

Original sin, I was screwed from the begining. Again, I had no choice when Adam sinned, and I had no choice being born. Why would your God throw ppl is such a position, know full well the outcome? If commited by a human, we'ld call him sadistic.

There is nothing but love, there is nothing but mercy, there is nothing but justice. god holds all 3 at once, he loves you more that you can imagine, Jesus went to death so that you could be redeemed (mercy), but he has to uphold the law, same as the judge, no matter how much he loves you, the law has to be upheld.

Well, I don't know what bizzaro world you're living in, but on planet Earth, most anyone I know would shudder at the prospect of commanding the torture of a loved one for a certain crime, no matter how horrible. And, since God made the law, you'ld think he'ld be able to make exceptions. Jesus is an exception to the law. Why must Jesus be the only one?

He does have to. it doesn't please him, and i'm pretty sure the people going to hell weren't merry.

God doesn't have to do anything. He made the rules, He has broken the rules, and He can do it again. So why doesn't He? I think your God enjoys feeding the fire.

 

[JustJack!]

no he doesnt, you send yourself to Hell like it or not

Alright, fine, ignore the passages concerning God judgement. Be a salad-bar Christian, but just remember, lukewarm Christian **** Jesus off.

So whats your point? no one said life was fair

Ok, your God lacks the basic concept of fairness. Good to know.

 

[grateful heart]

Alright, fine, ignore the passages concerning God judgement. Be a salad-bar Christian, but just remember, lukewarm Christian **** Jesus off.

God judges but you are the one who decides your fate , and yes luke warm God doesnt like, so whats your point?

Ok, your God lacks the basic concept of fairness. Good to know.

actually you lack the true concept of fairness, im sure when you stand in front of God and if you are cast down in the lake of fire you can scream its not fair "god is not loving " all you want, but the fact still remains

 

[JustJack!]

God judges but you are the one who decides your fate

Good, so we acknowledge God does the actual sending and condemning.

As for deciding my fate, that simply isn't true. While I can imagine the sky being red in my mind, I can not actively choose to believe that in reality, the sky is red, when in fact, I know it to be blue. I can not choose to simply believe in your God and be a Christian, when all in my life has lead me to the conclusion that it is not true. I have no control over my fate, neither does anyone else.

actually you lack the true concept of fairness,

If you're going to throw a man into a room with a bottomless pit in the middle, it's unfair to throw him in blindfolded. I can't wait to hear what the true concept of fairness is.

im sure when you stand in front of God and if you are cast down in the lake of fire you can scream its not fair "god is not loving " all you want, but the fact still remains

Cast? It's nice to see we at least agree on something.

 

[grateful heart]

Good, so we acknowledge God does the actual sending and condemning

Didnt say that

As for deciding my fate, that simply isn't true. While I can imagine the sky being red in my mind, I can not actively choose to believe that in reality, the sky is red, when in fact, I know it to be blue. I can not choose to simply believe in your God and be a Christian, when all in my life has lead me to the conclusion that it is not true. I have no control over my fate, neither does anyone else.

Then dont believe, you will find out in the end

Cast? It's nice to see we at least agree on something.

??? in the end non believers are cast down to the lake of fire but by then you would have already decided where you are going

 

[MuAndNu]

Mat 13:40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Mat 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

2Th 1:7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
2Th 1:8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
2Th 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[grateful heart]

Yes this is correct, in the end God does say "depart from me" once judgment day comes. But we already seal our fate before we die,
Put it this way, we make the decision to go to Heaven or Hell, God just fulfills the law thats all.

Its like you kill someone the judge sentences you to death, who sends you to death>? You did the minute you killed someone, you made that decision and the consequence is Death, The judge just fulfilled the law as it is written

 

[Tree Sap]

God judges but you are the one who decides your fate. Put it this way, we make the decision to go to Heaven or Hell, God just fulfills the law thats all.

It is humiliating to find how many comparatively honest people think they get rid of a falsehood by softening the statement of it, by giving it the shape and placing it in the light in which it will least assert itself.

 

[grateful heart]

I do think we are going in circles here

Pretty much I am saying there is a hell and people who dont believe will go there, realistically how you get there should not of be a concern, if you dont believe there is a Christian God, then dont believe , quite simple, we will find out in the end wont we? that we can agree on

 

[grateful heart]

It is humiliating to find how many comparatively honest people think they get rid of a falsehood by softening the statement of it, by giving it the shape and placing it in the light in which it will least assert itself

a lot people like writing babble that has no point to it as well.

 

[joemaloy]

If I was God I would NOT create a species in knowing that I was going to have to burn 80% in Hell. And Im not just talking about the year 2005, Im talking about sence creation....around about 8 BILLION SOULS give or take. So in the Idea that I would NOT Create them for that reason alone does that make me BETTER than God. I would think not, so something else is going on in the sceem of things.